As reported by BDA & news from IFA

[PeruvianSkies]

You think that will get rid of him? Good luck.
At least hes not bugging me anymore.
As for "red push" the fact that you havent heard of this is worrisome as you appear to know a little about video display.
Truth is most sets from most manufacturers have some degree of red push, and calibration will only minimize the tendency. Tosh is the worst.
Sony is the most accurate for color and thats why I prefer the brand.
A lot of the "new" displays arent as bad, hope this is a trend, and red push will be left
in the graveyard with the CRT

When I said that I haven't heard of the 'red push' I was referring to that with my particular model Toshiba, not in general.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If you're trying to endear yourself by using the word bum, I can assure you it's not working...



You know if you wan to sound smart, you should probably not invent multisyllabic words like "verbalrectumbule," and you should probably use correct grammar too. Typos are one think but bad grammar has nothing to do with typos, it's evidence of an impoverished mind. LOL.



Well, you shouldn't go blabbering on about how much smarter you are when you can't spell gulible, overanalysis, phenomina, arguement, simular, competiting, and even english. Now I can accept a few typos, but you've got a style all your own I suppose. And what the heck is verbalrectumbule anyhow? LMAO.



Well, when you started saying how undereducated I was, I thought it was only fair to point out your use of english. I'm not throwing it against the wall, it's actually all over your face, and I'm trying to let you know it. You're just making a fool of yourself here little Terrence. It's actually pretty funny. LSHMBH.



You never said that a possibility existed. You said there was no possibility. Remember little Terrence, "a possibility" automatically implies some uncertainty, a gray area, maybe even some dreaded unknown qualities. You're not willing to deal in those. Don't twist this around and try to convince us that you said something you didn't.



I hardly think a stain on a dress qualifies as a major world event. Unless you're one of those types that likes to make mountains out of mole hills - there's a place for people like that: the oval office.



Well, it's only worldwide when it suits your argument - worldwide means more uncertainty (like piracy, gray market, second-hand sales, other technologies, the list goes on). It's quaint how you only go there when it supports your claims. All that aside, this phenomina is still an upsurge here in the US. You didn't see that upsurge coming did you, oh wise (-cracking) one? Your precious stats certainly didn't clue you in, did they? Your industry insiders that you're sleeping with (uh, I mean that you're "in bed" with) didn't warn you, did they? Last month's NDP figures weren't of any use there either, were they? No amount of FUD from you is going to change the fact that nobody, not even you, knows where this is headed.



Well maybe that's true for all the BR fanboys like yourself, and maybe they should, because they certainly don't have a clue about what's really happening. The fact is that BR and HDDVD are together, absolutely marginal. It's a blip as a percentage of sales. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. It's the one fact that everybody wants to ignore. It's the proverbial white elephant in the room.



Little Terrence, before you go spouting such nonsense, you should really consider the fact that your black and white logic is grade-school level and, well, logic is taught in college (where they also teach how to write better). Every HD player can play standard DVDs, right? So your typical consumer is still going to buy DVDs to watch on the HD player, especially if they don't care so much about quality or they don't have the fancy system to support the better picture & sound. So let's stop dancing around this and agree that BR/HDDVD is definitely competing with standard DVD.



Just about every Disney/Pixar movie that has come out from Mulan to Cars has had just about the same plot line. It has nothing to do with over-analysis, either; anyone who thinks about this just a bit can see it (well, maybe not you, but you're special that way). My guess is that this plot line has become so routine and boring that people are getting turned off by it. By the way, it's a friggin' animation, what is really the point of a 1080p cartoon? I'm sure 480p is just as exciting to the average 5-year old.



No, again you are extrapolating from the numbers - you are guessing. It could just as well be that sales of TV shows on DVD are falling because they can be downloaded for free. No need to pay for them. And this is really where your needle needs to get unstuck. NDP is only tracking sales. What is significant is how much VOD is being ordered, both free and for a fee - because all these downloads keep the consuming public busy watching something else besides BR/HDDVD.

You are so friggin' obsessed with sales figures that you are completely dismissing everything else out there. That's tunnel vision - and that's what a few people here have been trying to explain to you - you are marred by your own tunnel vision. For example, you say that DVD sales are down, but you're completely ignoring the fact that DVD pirating is up. How much? Well for that we'd have to talk about estimates, since it's not possible to know this. And how sound are your VOD figures if you don't include free VOD downloads?

Even your HD figures don't include freebies, returns, coupons, and the huge trade in second-hand movies on eBay, Amazon, and other sites like it. Right now there are 2652 BR disks on sale on eBay and 1415 HDDVDs. You'll probably try to convince everybody here that this is solid proof that BR is winning, but with the same logic you could argue that more people are trying to get rid of their BR disks. After all, there are also 33 second hand BR disk players on sale and 9 HDDVD players, so there are 33 people trying to dump their BR players while only 9 are trying to dump their HDDVD players. The fact is, the numbers look great on paper, but they are all estimates. Let me repeat that: THEY ARE ALL ESTIMATES.

The simple fact is you don't know that much about this at all. You're only speculating. And yes, you want BR to win because you can't bear the thought that you would be proven wrong. I guess this has become your crusade and that's why you have such a cross to bear.



No, I think you're the one who's the dim bulb in the room if you think things have not changed in the last two decades. Ever heard of the Internet? And I'm not just talking about movie downloads, even though they obviously are having an impact, but I'm also talking about online distribution and sales. To stand here and say that this format war will unfold at the same rate as the VHS/DIVx format war or any other past format war, is absolutely ignorant. I think you're the Luddite here who's still spinning those old records - Rick Springfield has long ago left the building... I guess the reason you nostalgically hark back to the 80's for your examples is because that is when you left school and decided to read only what you like. Go get an education, already.



Let me rephrase that for you: "When the discussion doesn't go my way, I change the debate to suit my own argument." ...And when I can't dig myself out of my own hole I invent words and use garmaticaly incorret doublespeak make to me sound smarts.



Uh, yes you did. You said that if they were going to buy HDM they should buy BR. It's right there on pp5-7 of this thread. And two posts ago you said "If people do what [I] say [ie. wait top make a purchase], then HDM on disc is doomed." Well we all know your favorite HDM is BR, so let's not mince words, you are telling people to buy BR, in your doublespeak-ish way




You're conveniently neglecting to mention that whenever there is a format war, those who bought into the format that lost, also ended up with a brick, or at least a marginalized one, and a whole collection of 8-Tracks, Betamax, DIVx, DVD-A, and soon BR or HDDVD media that has been marginalized. Consumers have a right not to buy and they should not be lulled by the likes of you into a false sense of security about the format they should choose. Not only doesn't it make sense to bet on a 2-1 lead in this industry, but if the market segment where this 2-1 lead is just 5% or less of the whole market, by all means, wait it out.

And don't even start about the technical superiority of BR over HDDVD. Betamax was superior to VHS, Laserdisk was superior to VHS, there are plenty of examples in the movie industry as well as in many other industries (computer hardware) where the technologically superior product did not win out.

Just because telling people to wait calls your predictions, guesses, and prognostications into question, does not mean people shouldn't wait. Sorry, was that too big a word for you, little Terrence? Well look it up. It's about time you learned what a dictionary is.



No I'm not choosing "to buy into either." I'm waiting it out. Sorry if that doesn't suit your wallet.

After reading all of this, I had an thought. Why am I debating a person who does not own a player from either format, does not know the industry or how it works, does not know the technology, does not want it, and is running all over the forum dissing both HD disc formats. He is is yesterday consumer who's time is come and gone. You are oil that is soon to be processed into gas.

Nightflier, go download a movie. Enjoy your heavily compressed 720p video, lossy highly compressed stereo or 5.1 audio, with time limits, DRM, and video artifacts. Enjoy it. Maybe one day you will come out of yesterday, and into the future. And maybe not. I am sure it will be a while for you, because you will be so busy thinking about how the Dali lama's visit will affect player prices, and how a rainshower in Los Angeles will drive up the cost of discs.

Go enjoy your VCR. I am sure you were too scared to get a DVD player because possibly a ship carrying a load of them would sink, sending player prices sky high, and too much for you to pay.

Go and enjoy your cassette player. I am sure you never got into CD because a very tough lady named Margaret decided to go to war, and that caused the workers assembling the players hands to get cramped. Or was it they got so tense that it gave them gas.

Meanwhile I will enjoy movies in full 24fps 1080p and lossless audio on bluray, and 1080p with high bit lossy audio on the HD DVD side.

Fun debate, but this cat is tired of playing with the mouse.(spits it out and walks away)

[Groundbeef]

Okay, on one thread you call me a HD DVD fanboy, on this one I am a BR paid shill. What is it? Prove I am a paid shill. Don't just say it, prove it.

Actually, on the other thread I called you a "HD-DVD SuperFanboy". On this thread you indicated that you work for a BR exclusive Studio. Judging from some of your other posts NOT related to BR, you are pretty intelligent. You have money based on your A/V equipment, and those you hang with. This all adds up to something a bit higher than middle manager. Unless you won the lotto, and are cleaning garbage cans for the benefits, I would suspect you are pretty well off. Thus, it would be foolish for you to be paid large sums from a BR studio, and then tout the benefits for a competing format.

I'm not faulting you, but just calling you out. If you have an interest in promoting the BR format do it, but please don't suggest that somehow your "doing it for the greater good". You support BR because BR brings home the bacon. Perhaps you don't like "shill", but that my friend is what you are doing.

Then why are you continuing to advance the premise that the HD DVD drive is a standalone? It wasn't when it was introduced, it isn't now, and it won't be tomorrow.

It appears you are wanting to die on this hill. In absolute terms, it is not a "standalone" in that it needs another component to work. But in practical terms, as an "add-on" it counts as a standalone player. There is no reason to buy it EXCEPT for the purpose of playing HD-DVD movies. I don't know what point your trying to drive home, except that you can read a dictionary.

Cell phones are not HD players are they? Cell phones can't play HD movies can they? Cell phones don't do lossless audio do they? And you know what, you cannot make a call on a HD player. Apples and oranges comparison

I don't know if you really are this stupid, or just play it on this thread. Have you no concept of an analogy? Of course phones are not HD players. But I think you are trying to blow smoke so as to cover up the affect.

Geeze meatsock. If there is no way to determine usage, then NO NUMBER can be placed on usage. None, zero, zilch. I didn't suggest it was higher or lower, I said NO NUMBER CAN BE PLACED ON USAGE. I hope you understand this now.

Right, no number. Well that certainly fits into your arguement. And since NO NUMBER as you say can be placed on it then it becomes irrelevent to the larger picture. So, I guess we can forget about counting PS3 players as BluRay Movie players. Thanks for making my point.

So their players have different video decoders. Aside from this, is the player fundamentally different? No it is not. If it can do it, so can mine if we had a compatible service that offered it.

Here is your original quote:

I believe the same PS3 sold in Australia is the same PS3 sold to me.

Two can play this silly little game of yours:
Websters says that "same"=being one without addition, change, or discontinuance

So, actually if we are going to split hairs, the EU version, Japanese Version, and US version are not "the same". And seeing as the US DOESN'T have, will NEVER have, and there are not plans for a similiar system, I would say, you are WRONG again.

So you open the door by dissing the PS3, and now you want to close it by smoothing over 1 billion dollars worth of damage to its consumers. Some non issue.

Right, MS is the ONLY firm with these problems. Remember the PS2? Disc scratching problem, and more recently the RootKit issue from Sony? What did that cost again? Like I said, they both have warts on their ass. But non of those MS warts are related to HD/BR, and were only brought out by you in desperation to blow more smoke to cover your own sinking ship.

Umm, so now your read minds. LOL, you can even read plain english man. LOL. Don't be mad at the success of bluray baby, it ain't that serious. Can you show me a link that Sony made such a promise? Cause I am going to tell ya, I was there when they made the BR presentation at my studio, and they made no such claim. The did say they were going to put a bluray drive in every machine, and that would give bluray a base to launch from. And by the way, there are millions of new bluray players out there. 2.2 million in North America alone. If 1-100 bought a movie, then bluray would still be kicking HD DVD collective butts like it is now.

The best # I can come up with is from June 2007. It showed sales of 150,000 HD-DVD players in 2007 so far:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4605296&EDATE=

If we follow your math, 2,200,000 X .01 (1%) thats a total of 22,000 players buying movies.

Explain again in your math how 22,000 is kicking 150,000 in the US? Is that another example of Sir T (as in Terrible in Math) logic?

I guess the BDA is giving the discs away just like HD DVD PG is. You forgot to mention that.

No, I'm just 'correcting' you after you try and portray the $150 million as a cash payment to Paramount. You know better than any of us that it wasn't, so don't spread FUD as though it were. It is in promotional funds, such as advertising, and other events. Just as BR helps support it's studios. It's not like HD-DVD is doing anything different.

And it is not monopolistic behavior, its the exclusive studio agreements that lead to anti-competitiveness.

Talk about double speak. When did monoplistic behavior become "anti-competitiveness". I guess they teach that to you when you work for the studios.

Now tell the whole story. Both are being investigated, and it is not official that an investigation will even take place. Have you heard anything further since this announcement? No, and you probably won't either.

Wishful thinking. This is the EU remeber? They like to throw a wrench in anyone's party. If its from the US, they will do their best to impede progress. No matter what the format. It's not going away.

Wow! When I bought my player, there was no 40 or 80GB player on the market. Only the 60GB was offered, and before that was the $499 20GB model that was discontinued. So my player at the time was the most expensive PS3, and it was discounted.

Either way, you still have the cheap one.

BR does not have to cost the same as HD DVD. HD DVD has to keep cost down because Toshiba does not own a film library, they have to pay for it. So the only way to sell players, is to sell them cheaper than bluray, and pay a studio to support it. Toshiba is selling players at a loss. Bluray manufacturers are not. As you can see, Toshiba left no incentive for other manufacturers to jump in, except below them. By driving down the price so quickly, you leave no room for other manufacturers to make a profit off the players they sell. Not a good long term strategy. Onkyo is suppose to market the most expensive HD DVD player yet released, but there is no release date. And with HD DVD supporter constantly bleeding the cheaper price arguement, I wonder just how well an expensive HD DVD will do. Toshiba's XA2 is not selling nearly as well as the A2, that is for sure. The XA1 didn't sell as well as the A1 either.

I can't disagree with you actually on this. But thats for us learned folk. J6P doesn't give a hoot about royalties, mfg costs, or anything else. I am not suggesting that the low cost leader in this fight will win, but the behind the scenes dealings don't matter much to the man on the street. If low cost will carry the day, then HD-DVD has a chance to do well. Manybe not 'win', but force BR into pricing territory it would rather stay out of. The danger for BR is that by HD-DVD forcing down costs, it may NOT be worth anyone's money to make the technology. The saving grace for either format was supposed to be higher margins for everyone. At this point, I don't think you can disagree that no one had expected prices to be driving down as much as they have.

Sorry, but it is much for movie lovers. They want lossless audio, and there are quite a few HD DVD owners who are quite angry that the big titles Transformers and Shriek 3 will not have it. They complained when King Kong didn't have it.

We have already experienced lossy audio on the DVD. What good is the supposed sucessor to the DVD if it can do no better than DVD in the audio department?

Its not much of a comprimise, but I suppose they could introduce 2 discs if its really an issue. 1 for the movie and lossless, and 1 w/features. Cost, and ease of use wise its a pretty piss poor solution though.

Sorry, if it was a GAME machine, it wouldn't be able to play SACD's, or bluray movies. It would be just a game machine.

On this point, you best step out of the arguement. Your disdain for games/gamers is apparent, but it only points out your lack of knowledge in this area. Rather than simply admitting you are either ignorant to the facts, or pig-headedness, it doesn't matter. You are wrong.

Here are some notes from the 2007 Tokyo Games Expo:

Despite previous attempts in promoting the PlayStation 3 as a super-computer, Blu-ray player, and multimedia device, Sony Computer Entertainment president Kaz Hirai recalibrated the PS3 as a game console in statements made during his Tokyo Game Show keynote.

Here is the link with the entire article. You may have to click past an ad. Sorry about that. But, if the President of SCUE says it, I think that we can belive it. Even I'm not that cynical:

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=135348

I am pretty much through with you. You are not nearly as fun or interesting to debate with as Nightflier. I want to focus on him, not you. You have not now, nor in the future add anything to this thread. You are as uniformed as Nightflier on so many issues it is not funny. I do not have the time to verbally spar with a sandbox type. As dumb as nightflier is, and least he's fun to toy with. You are not. You are just a game playing kid.

That is all, you are dismissed.

No, I don't think so. The reason its not so fun to debate, is that your getting your ass handed to you. I'm not "fun" as you put it because I hand your bag of poo your tossing out right back. I'll bet you took your ball home plenty as a kid 65 years ago. Your ignorance of todays issues is enlighting, as is your attempts to dismiss someone who enjoys gaming. Interesting to note that many studios have noted a drop in movie viewing the week after Halo3 went on sale. Ticket receipts were down 25% across the country, with many studios and analysts attributing the drop to a VIDEO GAME.

Also interesting that the vast majority of gamers are in the 25-40 year old demographic. I'm sure you would know that if you didn't have your head so far up your ass that you can't see anything except your own crap. These are the same people that studios (even yours) are trying to woo for their products. So keep on dismissing me, because it only shows how out of touch you are.

As far as adding to this thread? If you don't like my posts, don't respond. If you feel you're so above the fray, don't dip your toes in the water. After all, you've been beaten so badly I'm suprised you continue to show up. Usually bullies and blowhards stop trying after they get owned once or twice. Your an anomaly, as its taken nearly 3 pages for you to realize you have been beaten. Well done.

[nightflier]

The reason its not so fun to debate, is that your getting your ass handed to you....If you don't like my posts, don't respond. If you feel you're so above the fray, don't dip your toes in the water. After all, you've been beaten so badly I'm surprised you continue to show up. Usually bullies and blowhards stop trying after they get owned once or twice....

Tsk tsk tsk, my little green imp, you don't get to "dismiss" people - you're not even the OP! I hate to break this to you, but delusions of grandeur don't make you any better, smarter, or for that matter, pleasant in the real world. The fact is, you can't support your position on the issues. Oh, I know that in your own tiny mind you may think you've made your case, but for the rest of us here your fairy-footed dancing around the issues hasn't convinced anyone. You've dug your own hole and despite your wings and green feathers, you can't seem to fly out of it.

So you just "dismiss" everyone you can't agree with? How that sounds so much like that little green leprechaun squatting in the oval office. Are you really sure you two are not related? Something must have struck a nerve I think. Was it the tunnel-vision, the fact of being a shill, or the lack of smarts? Or was it maybe the very real possibility that you can't possibly know everything there is to know about this industry? Well, you can run home and cry about it to your mommy now. I guess this "entertainment" was just a little too grown up for you. Next time, don't insult everyone you're having a discussion with and it won't go so bad.

When I started to discuss the issue, I repeatedly said that I didn't dismiss your figures, I respected your knowledge about this industry, and I was extra careful not to offend you. However, I did not accept the numbers as the only source of valuable information in addressing the OP's question about the 2-1 margin in favor of BR disks sales. As the discussion progressed you continued to insult me, Pixel, Peru, and GBeef. You searched through other completely unrelated threads to find sources to discredit us, and you came off as overbearing and arrogant. It's great that you have access to information that others here don't have, but the way you came off was insulting, grotesque and ultimately childish. I sincerely hope that in future threads you conduct yourself with a little more respect for people who may disagree with you. After all, you don't know it all, even if you think you do.

[PeruvianSkies]

Tsk tsk tsk, my little green imp, you don't get to "dismiss" people - you're not even the OP! I hate to break this to you, but delusions of grandeur don't make you any better, smarter, or for that matter, pleasant in the real world. The fact is, you can't support your position on the issues. Oh, I know that in your own tiny mind you may think you've made your case, but for the rest of us here your fairy-footed dancing around the issues hasn't convinced anyone. You've dug your own hole and despite your wings and green feathers, you can't seem to fly out of it.

So you just "dismiss" everyone you can't agree with? How that sounds so much like that little green leprechaun squatting in the oval office. Are you really sure you two are not related? Something must have struck a nerve I think. Was it the tunnel-vision, the fact of being a shill, or the lack of smarts? Or was it maybe the very real possibility that you can't possibly know everything there is to know about this industry? Well, you can run home and cry about it to your mommy now. I guess this "entertainment" was just a little too grown up for you. Next time, don't insult everyone you're having a discussion with and it won't go so bad.

When I started to discuss the issue, I repeatedly said that I didn't dismiss your figures, I respected your knowledge about this industry, and I was extra careful not to offend you. However, I did not accept the numbers as the only source of valuable information in addressing the OP's question about the 2-1 margin in favor of BR disks sales. As the discussion progressed you continued to insult me, Pixel, Peru, and GBeef. You searched through other completely unrelated threads to find sources to discredit us, and you came off as overbearing and arrogant. It's great that you have access to information that others here don't have, but the way you came off was insulting, grotesque and ultimately childish. I sincerely hope that in future threads you conduct yourself with a little more respect for people who may disagree with you. After all, you don't know it all, even if you think you do.

Well, I think that what happened is when Sir T was here before his leave of absence he wasn't really given any push-back on anything and was free to roam around with his opinions flying free. Now he comes back and is getting some resistance on a few issues from people here and now he is playing the superiority card by trying to talk down to the rest of us because he is involved with Blu-ray. He doesn't like being challenged by free-thinking people and that upsets him...I say two words: too bad!

[kexodusc]

Well, I think that what happened is when Sir T was here before his leave of absence he wasn't really given any push-back on anything and was free to roam around with his opinions flying free. Now he comes back and is getting some resistance on a few issues from people here and now he is playing the superiority card by trying to talk down to the rest of us because he is involved with Blu-ray. He doesn't like being challenged by free-thinking people and that upsets him...I say two words: too bad!

LOL...waaaaaay off...I don't think Sir T ever went longer than 23 hours without a heated confrontation. That's what happens when you get competent people with different opinions.
Beats the hocus-pocus circle-jerk a lot of other audio sites have become.
RGA, Mtrycrafts, Nightflier, Florian, etc, etc....those are just a few I remember....

[PeruvianSkies]

LOL...waaaaaay off...I don't think Sir T ever went longer than 23 hours without a heated confrontation. That's what happens when you get competent people with different opinions.
Beats the hocus-pocus circle-jerk a lot of other audio sites have become.
RGA, Mtrycrafts, Nightflier, Florian, etc, etc....those are just a few I remember....

That's a good point and I think that is the impetus between a large percentage of the debates...it's not a matter of who is wrong, but a matter of who is more right.

[pixelthis]

Tsk tsk tsk, my little green imp, you don't get to "dismiss" people - you're not even the OP! I hate to break this to you, but delusions of grandeur don't make you any better, smarter, or for that matter, pleasant in the real world. The fact is, you can't support your position on the issues. Oh, I know that in your own tiny mind you may think you've made your case, but for the rest of us here your fairy-footed dancing around the issues hasn't convinced anyone. You've dug your own hole and despite your wings and green feathers, you can't seem to fly out of it.

So you just "dismiss" everyone you can't agree with? How that sounds so much like that little green leprechaun squatting in the oval office. Are you really sure you two are not related? Something must have struck a nerve I think. Was it the tunnel-vision, the fact of being a shill, or the lack of smarts? Or was it maybe the very real possibility that you can't possibly know everything there is to know about this industry? Well, you can run home and cry about it to your mommy now. I guess this "entertainment" was just a little too grown up for you. Next time, don't insult everyone you're having a discussion with and it won't go so bad.

When I started to discuss the issue, I repeatedly said that I didn't dismiss your figures, I respected your knowledge about this industry, and I was extra careful not to offend you. However, I did not accept the numbers as the only source of valuable information in addressing the OP's question about the 2-1 margin in favor of BR disks sales. As the discussion progressed you continued to insult me, Pixel, Peru, and GBeef. You searched through other completely unrelated threads to find sources to discredit us, and you came off as overbearing and arrogant. It's great that you have access to information that others here don't have, but the way you came off was insulting, grotesque and ultimately childish. I sincerely hope that in future threads you conduct yourself with a little more respect for people who may disagree with you. After all, you don't know it all, even if you think you do.

Nicely said.
But don't dismiss out of hand what sir t is telling you , he has a lot of good info.
I have gathered (and I MAY BE WRONG) that you are an HDDVD fan, which might have a lot to do with sir t pissing you off
For the record I think a lot of your conspriacy theories are a tad silly, these chuckleheads
can't even get together to agree on a HDDVD standard , even tho its going to cost them millions, and probably speed the intro of VOD and DOWNLOADING

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

LOL...waaaaaay off...I don't think Sir T ever went longer than 23 hours without a heated confrontation. That's what happens when you get competent people with different opinions.
Beats the hocus-pocus circle-jerk a lot of other audio sites have become.
RGA, Mtrycrafts, Nightflier, Florian, etc, etc....those are just a few I remember....

RGA, Mtrycrafts, Richard Greene, John from Canada to name a few, knew enough about the subject matter they debated, that they didn't have to result to plausable but highly unlikely points to support an arguments. They could stay in context within the history or technical spec of whatever they debated. They were not all over the map because of ignorance. They knew their stuff. Made for much more interesting debate, and information being released to interested parties. It was easier to debate with these guys.

PS, groundbeef and Nightflier don't know there stuff, and have to result spinning, or not addressing whole points. That makes for a boring, uninteresting debate.

One thing that is consistant; if you know your stuff, there are some that will just dislike you, call you arrogant, and tell you that you are rude. This is just to hide the fact that they cannot, and do not have the necessary knowledge to debate effectively. I call that a smoke screen.

The funny thing is the inadequate ones walk away thinking they have done some damage, when in actuality, their ignorance has been uncovered. Its like watching a guy get up after he has been beat up, and say " huh, sure got him didn't I".

[nightflier]

One thing that is consistant; if you know your stuff, there are some that will just dislike you, call you arrogant, and tell you that you are rude. This is just to hide the fact that they cannot, and do not have the necessary knowledge to debate effectively. I call that a smoke screen.... The funny thing is the inadequate ones walk away thinking they have done some damage, when in actuality, their ignorance has been uncovered. Its like watching a guy get up after he has been beat up, and say " huh, sure got him didn't I".

Well little T., I think you're the only one here who still thinks you did some damage. Now get up and go home, and don't let us catch you saying "huh, sure got him didn't I" under your breath. Just because you got one hell of a a$$ whoopin' this time, doesn't mean you're not entitled to another. The only definition of a troll that doesn't match your behavior is the fact that you did not start a thread. Maybe now you'll do that too, just to try and prove us wrong again.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Well little T., I think you're the only one here who still thinks you did some damage. Now get up and go home, and don't let us catch you saying "huh, sure got him didn't I" under your breath. Just because you got one hell of a a$$ whoopin' this time, doesn't mean you're not entitled to another. The only definition of a troll that doesn't match your behavior is the fact that you did not start a thread. Maybe now you'll do that too, just to try and prove us wrong again.

Nightflier, do you notice I didn't say anything about beating your butt. You see I have enough confidence in what I say and know not to have to say it. Those who do not have that confidence often have to say it to assure and convince themselves that they did not get their butt kicked.

I have nothing to prove or say to anyone who thinks that HD player prices fluctuate like oil and gas futures. I also cannot think of anything that is more stupid than that. So congrats to you for your victory in the ignorance department. Savor it.

You do not know what other people think of this whole debate, so before you make the comment that I am the only one who thinks I won(something I never said), you better know that I am the only one. No one person can convey the thought of many, especially not you who has a hard time convey your own thoughts.

[nightflier]

...so before you make the comment that I am the only one who thinks I won..., you better know that I am the only one.

I think I'm done here.

Go home Little T., it's past your bed time.

[PeruvianSkies]

I think I'm done here.

Go home Little T., it's past your bed time.

I am done too, I don't give any respect to people who call me a "liar" and then can't back up their claim. Therefore I have nothing left to say to Sir Lose-a-lot. Although I'd still love to have a movie trivia challenge with him one day, but he probably wouldn't show up for the beat down.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I am done too, I don't give any respect to people who call me a "liar" and then can't back up their claim. Therefore I have nothing left to say to Sir Lose-a-lot. Although I'd still love to have a movie trivia challenge with him one day, but he probably wouldn't show up for the beat down.

I would not show up because I am not interested in movie trivia. I am interested in the technical side of movie making. I do not sit around musing about movies, I help put them together. When you are ready for a technical challenge, you let me know. However I know you won't show up, its obviously not your area of expertise, unless you count the one time you did a on location in Pittsburg.

As far as calling you a liar, you still have yet to prove you did not.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I think I'm done here.

Go home Little T., it's past your bed time.

This is exactly what you say when they make comment you cannot support. What did you do take a poll? LOL. You make such laughable statement clippedwing