Early Data Shows Strong Black Friday

[pixelthis]

The arrogance of humanity is actually being used against them, the thought that they
can actually affect the climate on a planetary scale.
If you could actually conceive of just how massive the planetary ecology actually
is you would laugh at this rediculous notion also.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Pix, you're confusing a whole lot of different generalizations and stereotypical attributes into a collective mess. In the end, it doesn't further your argument.

I have been saying this for a year about him. And this is not topic dependant, this is how he is with EVERY topic.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'm doing my part.

[nightflier]

Pix, I didn't mean to insult. I know you have your debates with the other guys, and I'm not trying to get into the middle of that, but you have to admit that the evidence is overwhelming.

For example, I don't accept the 1 degree argument, and I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of the scientific community doesn't either. The figure I read more often is 3 degrees (150% more), and while that doesn't seem like a lot, it means a tremendous change in our environment affecting everything from sea-water levels, to polar ice caps, to climate changes that will change whole ecosystems for good. If you think this will not affect our own food chain, our health, and our lifestyles, then I'm don't think you're paying attention.

Then there is the issue with how fast this temperature change is occurring, nothing like what happened millions of years ago between ice ages. This rapid change is much more likely to have been caused by our pollution of the environment. Anyhow, this isn't my area of expertise, but I do read about it quite a bit. I have good reasons to believe the science behind the articles and to try and change my behavior a little, at least in ways that reduce my own carbon footprint. I debated long & hard about buying a plasma TV, but in the end, the higher energy use and heat issues were very minor, less in fact than many LCDs.

Then there's that little detail about the hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica....

[nightflier]

Well Tex, you may just be getting your wish. Last I heard, Obama's team was throwing out numbers like $1000 per person and another $1000 per dependent. Now unless people stick it in the bank (or the floorboards in Texas) and hold onto it for a rainy day (flooding notwithstanding for Texans), most of this money is going to get rolled back into the economy.

If this comes to pass, I am also expecting a lot of upper-middle class people who are still doing OK and who won't consider this a lot of money, to invest the check. That along with rising fuel prices, rising b2b spending, and a few other factors, could really pick up this lagging economy. I'm reading investment projections that specify growth numbers of 100-150% in some sectors in the next 2 years.

Some positive thoughts:

- The one good thing about being the first economy to have suffered a national bail-out crisis, is that we stand a good chance of being the first ones out of the muck. If anyone has the resilience to do it, it's Americans.

- Investing in green technologies is now not only the cool thing to do, but also seen as a good investment strategy.

- If you hate everything green (yes there are still such Cromagnons around, esp. in Crawford Texas), then investing in oil right now is also a good bet. Of if you're neither green nor Texan, investing in new oil exploration techniques is a good way to remain on the fence and still make a buck.

- While house prices are expected to fall some more, they will likely stay low for another 2-4 years. For those looking to buy a house, there is some time to cash in their stocks and put together that nest egg.

- This economy and the green movement are finally reaching the hi-fi market it seems. From everything I've read about Las Vagas this month, it looks like less-expensive, small, energy-efficient, fair-labor, and higher-quality-and-more-durable gear is all the rage. Just look at the products that NAD, Cambridge, PS Audio, Harman, and Martin Logan are bringing to their line-ups.

- Growth in the computer industry is also expected in key areas where the US has always been strong: services, micro-processors, software, security, and networking. I'm not saying to start pouring money into Nasdaq-only investments, but it's worth keeping an eye on this.

- eBay and other auction / used goods sites are growing steadily as well. Not only good for audio-video folks, but also shows that people are willing to re-use much of what before was being thrown out as trash.

- Only 14 more days of Bush/Cheney and the fear that they will screw more up before they finally leave. Like the rallying call during the election: the world can't wait. So provided that the status quo remains for two more weeks, prepare yourselves for the biggest world-wide inaugural celebration we will see in our lifetimes.

Now would we be saying anything even remotely this positive if that guy from Arizona had won the election? ('Forgot his name; wait, it'll come to me... ...Nope completely forgot.)

[pixelthis]

Well Tex, you may just be getting your wish. Last I heard, Obama's team was throwing out numbers like $1000 per person and another $1000 per dependent. Now unless people stick it in the bank (or the floorboards in Texas) and hold onto it for a rainy day (flooding notwithstanding for Texans), most of this money is going to get rolled back into the economy.

If this comes to pass, I am also expecting a lot of upper-middle class people who are still doing OK and who won't consider this a lot of money, to invest the check. That along with rising fuel prices, rising b2b spending, and a few other factors, could really pick up this lagging economy. I'm reading investment projections that specify growth numbers of 100-150% in some sectors in the next 2 years.

Some positive thoughts:

- The one good thing about being the first economy to have suffered a national bail-out crisis, is that we stand a good chance of being the first ones out of the muck. If anyone has the resilience to do it, it's Americans.

- Investing in green technologies is now not only the cool thing to do, but also seen as a good investment strategy.

- If you hate everything green (yes there are still such Cromagnons around, esp. in Crawford Texas), then investing in oil right now is also a good bet. Of if you're neither green nor Texan, investing in new oil exploration techniques is a good way to remain on the fence and still make a buck.

- While house prices are expected to fall some more, they will likely stay low for another 2-4 years. For those looking to buy a house, there is some time to cash in their stocks and put together that nest egg.

- This economy and the green movement are finally reaching the hi-fi market it seems. From everything I've read about Las Vagas this month, it looks like less-expensive, small, energy-efficient, fair-labor, and higher-quality-and-more-durable gear is all the rage. Just look at the products that NAD, Cambridge, PS Audio, Harman, and Martin Logan are bringing to their line-ups.

- Growth in the computer industry is also expected in key areas where the US has always been strong: services, micro-processors, software, security, and networking. I'm not saying to start pouring money into Nasdaq-only investments, but it's worth keeping an eye on this.

- eBay and other auction / used goods sites are growing steadily as well. Not only good for audio-video folks, but also shows that people are willing to re-use much of what before was being thrown out as trash.

- Only 14 more days of Bush/Cheney and the fear that they will screw more up before they finally leave. Like the rallying call during the election: the world can't wait. So provided that the status quo remains for two more weeks, prepare yourselves for the biggest world-wide inaugural celebration we will see in our lifetimes.

Now would we be saying anything even remotely this positive if that guy from Arizona had won the election? ('Forgot his name; wait, it'll come to me... ...Nope completely forgot.)

OH, you liberals are so cute.
You blame 70 odd years of failed policy (basically the notion of a free lunch) and in spite of the disaster you've turned this country into you still beleive in something for nothing.
A TALKING HEAD on some talk show declared liberalism a disease, a refusal to grow up,
a childlike hankering for the "grownups" to magically fix everything.
I have made a few predictions ( all correct) on this site, and I WILL MAKE ANOTHER.
THIS "inauguration" of the first foreign citizen (kenyan) which is a violation of teh constitution, a person who will NOT salute the flag, who has cursed this country,
who has sat on panels with known terrorists, is the beginning of the end for this country.
They are already talking about limiting free speech(they have talked about it for some time,
they are actually going to do something about it)and required "national service" (slavery).
The great freedom experiment is over.
Not that anybody will notice, they will be too busy starving to death

[nightflier]

I have made a few predictions ( all correct) on this site

OK, that was good for a laugh. Now let's get back to reality shall we?

There is so much wrong with your statements, that trying to address each one would take us well beyond the inauguration. But I'm sure you'll pipe down when you get your $1000 check. What will you buy, another LCD?

Pix, I like you for the contrarian comments and the funny pics, but on politics you'll get no sympathy from me. I, and probably most people here are far from being liberals, so the insult just washes off and again, does nothing to further your argument. But it just seems like you can't stop painting yourself in a corner. Once is funny, twice is silly, eventually the joke becomes boring. So how many times will you have to sit in the corner waiting for the paint to dry before realizing that maybe there's a better way? You know from the corner, you might not be at the right angle to see that LCD very well....

[pixelthis]

OK, that was good for a laugh. Now let's get back to reality shall we?

There is so much wrong with your statements, that trying to address each one would take us well beyond the inauguration. But I'm sure you'll pipe down when you get your $1000 check. What will you buy, another LCD?

Pix, I like you for the contrarian comments and the funny pics, but on politics you'll get no sympathy from me. I, and probably most people here are far from being liberals, so the insult just washes off and again, does nothing to further your argument. But it just seems like you can't stop painting yourself in a corner. Once is funny, twice is silly, eventually the joke becomes boring. So how many times will you have to sit in the corner waiting for the paint to dry before realizing that maybe there's a better way? You know from the corner, you might not be at the right angle to see that LCD very well....

IN OTHER WORDS you are a liberal who thinks that the obamanation is going to pull
us outta the mess that socialism got us into with even more socialism.
As for painting myself into a corner , thats what you and other idiots who voted
for this far left socialist did when you put him in office.
And he used to hobnob with some of the most radical leftists and communists in the country, and he refuses to salute the flag.
One terrorist in paticular that he used to pal around with was the leader of the weather
underground, a group that targeted police officers(and killed a few)
As an ex officer I FIND this paticulary galling.
As for what I "do" with my 500$ "gift" (which was stolen from me in the first place) , well, considering how hes' running the printing presses even before hes in office,
MAYBE I WILL BUY A FEW GROCERIES.

[GMichael]

IN OTHER WORDS you are a liberal who thinks that the obamanation is going to pull
us outta the mess that socialism got us into with even more socialism.
As for painting myself into a corner , thats what you and other idiots who voted
for this far left socialist did when you put him in office.
And he used to hobnob with some of the most radical leftists and communists in the country, and he refuses to salute the flag.
One terrorist in paticular that he used to pal around with was the leader of the weather
underground, a group that targeted police officers(and killed a few)
As an ex officer I FIND this paticulary galling.
As for what I "do" with my 500$ "gift" (which was stolen from me in the first place) , well, considering how hes' running the printing presses even before hes in office,
MAYBE I WILL BUY A FEW GROCERIES.

It's posts like this that make me wish that I was a left wing Liberal. I feel embarrassed to call myself a conservative after this.

[nightflier]

OK, let's see how nutty your comments sound when we reverse the labels:


"OH, you conservatives are so cute. You blame 70 odd years of failed policy (basically the notion of a unregulated capitalism) and in spite of the disaster you've turned this country into you still believe that the system will right itself. A TALKING HEAD on some talk show declared capitalism a disease, a refusal to grow up, a childlike hankering for the "the market" to magically fix everything."

And let's then presume McCain had won:

"I have made a few predictions (all incorrect) on this site, and I WILL MAKE ANOTHER. THIS "inauguration" of the first foreign citizen (Panamanian) which is a violation of the constitution, a person who sells his soul to the highest bidder (yes he has), who has cursed this country (yup), who has sat on panels with known terrorists (check)... is the beginning of the end for this country. They (the McCain & Bush people) are already talking about further limiting free speech (they have talked about it for some time, they are actually going to do something definite about it) and institute "mandatory military service" (the draft). The great capitalism experiment is over. Not that anybody will notice, they will be too busy starving the rest of the world to death."

Isn't it funny how when you turn things around, it sounds just as nuts? Everything you're saying about Obama (sitting down with terrorists, restricting freedoms, not respecting our institutions) can all be said with the far more fervor about Bush/Cheney/McCain, and the whole lot of those old farts who still think we're fighting the cold war. Wasn't it Rumsfeld who was shaking Saddam's hand in that infamous photo? And wasn't it Rummy who had the Abu-Graib torturers on speaker phone in his office wile the screaming was being heard down the hall? Wasn't it Cheney who said he was above the law? Wasn't it Bush who said that like our enemies, he would continue to find ways to hurt his own people? Wasn't Mr. maverick-anti-special-interests-McCain one of the Keating five? Wasn't McCain pushing to bring back the draft? Wasn't it McCain who sought a no-oversight bail-out of the banks? The list goes on an on. Oh, and about that picture of good old Ronald Reagan, didn't his people cut a deal with the Ayatollah to get Carter out of office? Better yet, remember a little scandal called Iran-Contra? Yeah these guys are saints. Good for laugh, Pix, good for a laugh....

Get your head out of your rear and realize that the more you spout off like that, the less anyone respects your point of view or reads what you have to say. Just look at what the other "conservatives" have already posted. Get a clue. Even Tex is getting the hell out of your way. You're like Lyndon Larouche all over the place and crazy as all get out.

But you're a nice guy, I'm sure, so don't take it personally. Aside from your politics, you're probably a great guy to have a beer with. After all that's what they said about Bush before he started torturing, killing, and dismantling this country for everything it was worth. Remember, he was a uniter who reached accross the isles, the papers said. OK, yeah, good for a laugh. Politics make strange bed fellows, they say, but in this case you don't want to be hobnobbing with that crowd, however cozy it may feel under that blanket. Trust me, you really don't. Four years from now those kinds people will be dismissed as absolute loons.

[Feanor]

OH, you liberals are so cute.
You blame 70 odd years of failed policy (basically the notion of a free lunch) and in spite of the disaster you've turned this country into you still beleive in something for nothing.
A TALKING HEAD on some talk show declared liberalism a disease, a refusal to grow up,
a childlike hankering for the "grownups" to magically fix everything.
I have made a few predictions ( all correct) on this site, and I WILL MAKE ANOTHER.
THIS "inauguration" of the first foreign citizen (kenyan) which is a violation of teh constitution, a person who will NOT salute the flag, who has cursed this country,
who has sat on panels with known terrorists, is the beginning of the end for this country.
They are already talking about limiting free speech(they have talked about it for some time,
they are actually going to do something about it)and required "national service" (slavery).
The great freedom experiment is over.
Not that anybody will notice, they will be too busy starving to death

EVERYTHING Pix says above is factually incorrect if not slandersous. Wow, 100% on this test.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=nightflier]Well Tex, you may just be getting your wish. Last I heard, Obama's team was throwing out numbers like $1000 per person and another $1000 per dependent. Now unless people stick it in the bank (or the floorboards in Texas) and hold onto it for a rainy day (flooding notwithstanding for Texans), most of this money is going to get rolled back into the economy.

If this comes to pass, I am also expecting a lot of upper-middle class people who are still doing OK and who won't consider this a lot of money, to invest the check. That along with rising fuel prices, rising b2b spending, and a few other factors, could really pick up this lagging economy. I'm reading investment projections that specify growth numbers of 100-150% in some sectors in the next 2 years.

Some positive thoughts:

- The one good thing about being the first economy to have suffered a national bail-out crisis, is that we stand a good chance of being the first ones out of the muck. If anyone has the resilience to do it, it's Americans.

- Investing in green technologies is now not only the cool thing to do, but also seen as a good investment strategy.

- If you hate everything green (yes there are still such Cromagnons around, esp. in Crawford Texas), then investing in oil right now is also a good bet. Of if you're neither green nor Texan, investing in new oil exploration techniques is a good way to remain on the fence and still make a buck.

- While house prices are expected to fall some more, they will likely stay low for another 2-4 years. For those looking to buy a house, there is some time to cash in their stocks and put together that nest egg.

- This economy and the green movement are finally reaching the hi-fi market it seems. From everything I've read about Las Vagas this month, it looks like less-expensive, small, energy-efficient, fair-labor, and higher-quality-and-more-durable gear is all the rage. Just look at the products that NAD, Cambridge, PS Audio, Harman, and Martin Logan are bringing to their line-ups.

- Growth in the computer industry is also expected in key areas where the US has always been strong: services, micro-processors, software, security, and networking. I'm not saying to start pouring money into Nasdaq-only investments, but it's worth keeping an eye on this.

- eBay and other auction / used goods sites are growing steadily as well. Not only good for audio-video folks, but also shows that people are willing to re-use much of what before was being thrown out as trash.

- Only 14 more days of Bush/Cheney and the fear that they will screw more up before they finally leave. Like the rallying call during the election: the world can't wait. So provided that the status quo remains for two more weeks, prepare yourselves for the biggest world-wide inaugural celebration we will see in our lifetimes.

Now would we be saying anything even remotely this positive if that guy from Arizona had won the election? ('Forgot his name; wait, it'll come to me... ...Nope completely forgot.)

Dont forget the koolaid.
Thats the end for most liberal beleifs

[Rich-n-Texas]

So what's better right now, putting your money under the floorboards, or putting it into a failing bank? .000000001% interest on savings ain't worth the trip IMO.

Latest news has Obama asking for $755 billion to sure up the economy. Where's that money going to come from?

[GMichael]

So what's better right now, putting your money under the floorboards, or putting it into a failing bank? .000000001% interest on savings ain't worth the trip IMO.

Latest news has Obama asking for $755 billion to sure up the economy. Where's that money going to come from?

Printing is running 24/7.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Yeah, no doubt. It's a good time to be a printing press repair man ya know?

(You're really dragging out your last ten posts GM)

[Mr Peabody]

Pix, you say predictions, some say, stating the obvious or restating the obvious. You must be watching too much Sci-Fi or huffing again. Please, if anyone figured out a way to have some one run for president who wasn't born an American we'd have Arnold on the Republican ticket.

Our economy and energy would be fine now if they would have let Bush alone to fulfill his first economic plan, which was to make Iraq the 51st state.

I keep my money in the ammo box, right beside the ammo.

[pixelthis]

Pix, you say predictions, some say, stating the obvious or restating the obvious. You must be watching too much Sci-Fi or huffing again. Please, if anyone figured out a way to have some one run for president who wasn't born an American we'd have Arnold on the Republican ticket.

Our economy and energy would be fine now if they would have let Bush alone to fulfill his first economic plan, which was to make Iraq the 51st state.

I keep my money in the ammo box, right beside the ammo.

a good place for it.
THE media is too busy genuflecting to the "great" obama to do any real journalism.
Hes their boy, just like Clinton.
Basically, if you're a liberal puke like most of the media, you can get away with murder.
Literally.
Like when ron brown was going states evidence on Clinton and wound up in a plane crash with a bullet in his head.
Same old same old.
AND we wind up with the desolation of obama nation

[Mr Peabody]

Who ever thinks the media is liberal is not completely plugged in. Almost all syndicated talk radio shows are conservative if not ultra so. Pix, I think you listen to Rush too much. Fox is practically the Republican cheerleader team.

[Mr Peabody]

I see on the news that gun sales have been booming. Assault rifles have quadrupled. I guess people have their priorities straight.

[kexodusc]

Wow, Pix is really throwing out "socialism" and "communism" like it's going out of style.
Funny, some of the more social-democratic countries are the ones in the best position to navigate through the global economic crisis.
Can't have it both ways - it was capitalism, greedy banks with no foresight, and ignorant consumers with little restraint that got us here...not social programs. Unless you're talking about the most expensive socialist program of them all - military spending.
Much easier to blame "Liberals" than to look in the mirror though.

[Feanor]

Wow, Pix is really throwing out "socialism" and "communism" like it's going out of style.
Funny, some of the more social-democratic countries are the ones in the best position to navigate through the global economic crisis.
Can't have it both ways - it was capitalism, greedy banks with no foresight, and ignorant consumers with little restraint that got us here...not social programs. Unless you're talking about the most expensive socialist program of them all - military spending.
Much easier to blame "Liberals" than to look in the mirror though.

Or maybe "appaulling". Like Pix, Congressman Ron Paul on CNN recently said the same thing: the current situation was caused by "liberal" policies. Huh? Say what?

These people really need to get past the stale right-wing ideology and look at the facts.

[Woochifer]

Or maybe "appaulling". Like Pix, Congressman Ron Paul on CNN recently said the same thing: the current situation was caused by "liberal" policies. Huh? Say what?

These people really need to get past the stale right-wing ideology and look at the facts.

But, facts would mean using one's eyes rather than filtering everything through a looking glass!

Funny how the right-wing meme getting pushed right now is that the New Deal was a failure, and that the U.S. economy just kept stumbling along until Pearl Harbor. The facts are that the stock market quadrupled between the 1932 and 1937, and even after losing half of its value in 1938, the market rebounded back to more than triple its 1932 value in the years before 1942.

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html

And if you use GDP as a measuring stick of economic activity, here too the size of the U.S. economy more than doubled between 1932 and 1941 in constant dollars. The New Deal basically saved capitalism from itself, and paved the way for massive economic growth in the postwar years. Yet, these right wing hacks keep ignoring the failures of their own neo-Hooverist agenda just so they preach the bankrupt mantra of top-heavy tax cuts and deregulation one more time.

http://www.measuringworth.org/usgdp/

[pixelthis]

But, facts would mean using one's eyes rather than filtering everything through a looking glass!

Funny how the right-wing meme getting pushed right now is that the New Deal was a failure, and that the U.S. economy just kept stumbling along until Pearl Harbor. The facts are that the stock market quadrupled between the 1932 and 1937, and even after losing half of its value in 1938, the market rebounded back to more than triple its 1932 value in the years before 1942.

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html

And if you use GDP as a measuring stick of economic activity, here too the size of the U.S. economy more than doubled between 1932 and 1941 in constant dollars. The New Deal basically saved capitalism from itself, and paved the way for massive economic growth in the postwar years. Yet, these right wing hacks keep ignoring the failures of their own neo-Hooverist agenda just so they preach the bankrupt mantra of top-heavy tax cuts and deregulation one more time.

http://www.measuringworth.org/usgdp/

give it up.

EVEN liberal economists agree that the "new deal" was a total failure.
Hoover was a failure also, but that was just because letting the free market work would
have been impossible in a country hindered by a central bank.
Yes the "new" deal was a total failure.
AND THE "NEW NEW DEAL" WILL BE THE SAME.
GREAT thing about you liberals, you keep trying something no matter how often it FAILS

[Feanor]

give it up.

EVEN liberal economists agree that the "new deal" was a total failure.
...

Apparently NOT. You exceed even your usual self in obsinate denial and foolishness.

[Woochifer]

give it up.

EVEN liberal economists agree that the "new deal" was a total failure.
Hoover was a failure also, but that was just because letting the free market work would
have been impossible in a country hindered by a central bank.
Yes the "new" deal was a total failure.
AND THE "NEW NEW DEAL" WILL BE THE SAME.
GREAT thing about you liberals, you keep trying something no matter how often it FAILS

Yeah, and you so-called "libertarians" (i.e., Repubs too embarrassed to admit their party affiliation) keep lapping up the GOP talking points that Rush, Hannity, Billo, the Weiner Nation, et al spoon feed you. Just because you hear something in a right-wing echo chamber doesn't mean that it translates to the real world.

Right, the New Deal was a "total failure" even though the economy more than doubled and the stock market more than tripled in the years after the programs were initially implemented. Yeah, we should be so lucky as to live in your free market fantasyland where people can lose their life savings when a bank fails, the stock market has no rules or oversight, seniors have no other subsistence if their 401k or pension fund collapses, and people who get disabled and can no longer work are just left on the streets to fend for themselves. Face it, the New Deal saved capitalism from itself by stabilizing a situation that could've easily spiraled out of control and given rise to the kind of conflicts between extremist groups that plagued Europe during the 1930s. Or do you think that we should have just let fascism take hold? Because that's what happens when corporate power merges with state power.

And now you're claiming that Keynesians are calling the New Deal a "total failure" (guys like Paul Krugman only gripe about it because they feel it did not go far enough, hardly a "total failure")? Better check what you got on that last WalMart drug run, you ain't thinkin' straight (nothing new, but this is out of bounds even by your diminished standards)