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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Now they are pretty cheap, you say a plasma is "half" the price of an LCD?
    This wasn't my statement, but if you want to compare apples to apples: A 1080P 50" Plasma (Samsung/Panasonic) is around $1300. A comparable picture from an LCD panel would require LED backlighting to achieve the contrast and black levels of the plasma (motion resolution would still be better on the plasma, unless you only watch still images). A 1080P 46" Samsung LED is over $2100 for a smaller screen and comparable picture quality. I don't know that they make 50" screens in LED, but the 55" is over $3k.

    The $1300 plasma blows away a similarly priced LCD in every facet except for energy usage, and that difference isn't what it used to be. The make some exceptional LED tv's from what I have seen, I don't dispute that. Its just you can have the same picture for a lot less money. That may change down the road, but I have a feeling something new altogether with replace both technologies (OLED?).
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  2. #52
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zepman1
    This wasn't my statement, but if you want to compare apples to apples: A 1080P 50" Plasma (Samsung/Panasonic) is around $1300. A comparable picture from an LCD panel would require LED backlighting to achieve the contrast and black levels of the plasma (motion resolution would still be better on the plasma, unless you only watch still images). A 1080P 46" Samsung LED is over $2100 for a smaller screen and comparable picture quality. I don't know that they make 50" screens in LED, but the 55" is over $3k.

    The $1300 plasma blows away a similarly priced LCD in every facet except for energy usage, and that difference isn't what it used to be. The make some exceptional LED tv's from what I have seen, I don't dispute that. Its just you can have the same picture for a lot less money. That may change down the road, but I have a feeling something new altogether with replace both technologies (OLED?).
    So in other words you are saying that the picture from a plasma "blows away" the picture from an LCD , which is your opinion, and it would take a 3k lcd to equal a 1300 plasma.
    All of this is just your opinion of course.
    Dealing with you plasma fanatics is Kafkaesq to say the least.
    You make assumptions and think your taste in picture should be key.
    Truth is LCD beats plasma on both price and picture, which is why plasma will exit stage left very shortly.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    So in other words you are saying that the picture from a plasma "blows away" the picture from an LCD , which is your opinion, and it would take a 3k lcd to equal a 1300 plasma.

    You make assumptions and think your taste in picture should be key.
    You are a good reader, I will give you that. Yes, of course that's what I said, although I did not exactly say the $3k was comparable as that is for a 55" screen. IMO, of course, the picture quality of current LCD and plasma models is very comparable except for black level/contrast issue (which is a BIG issue). And the only LCD's I have seen that can approach this level are the LED models. The "blows away" comment was meant more as an exxageration of the truth, as you are so fond of doing yourself.

    Its not assumptions, and its not only my "taste". This is the consensus of every home theater magazine and reviewer out there. But if your eye tells you something else, more power to you and enjoy what you have. I'm done here.
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  4. #54
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    ]

    The "reason" most havent switched over from CRT is money, there are several flat panels that are better, but most such businesses are just that... business.
    They dont get rid of anything unless its usuless or broken.
    At the hospital where I work the CRT is a distant memory.
    Doctors need an accurate display when doing endoscophy, etc.
    And teh IS guy I talk to has told me that the doctors and techs love the new flat screens
    Like I said, mastering studios and productions facilities are where performance matters. Cost is not an issue if the replacement technology improves the performance. The monitoring speakers, the editing decks, and the software gets upgraded all the time in those applications, so it's not the cost that keeps high end users on CRTs.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I'll let the "facts" speak for themselves.
    And teh fact is that you are a panny shill
    Repeating a slated opinion over and over is more symptomatic of mental illness than fact.



    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Go back through the thread and count how many times you mentioned Panny as opposed to other brands
    Panasonic is the brand that I have at home, so why would I mention it less often than brands that I'm less familiar with?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    As opposed to the "info" you cite, which is either wrong or misleading.
    You keep talking about picture res dropping during motion on a progressive screen,
    this doesnt happen
    The points on motion resolution are factual, and bourne out in test after test. I've cited the results many times, and it's been ignored by you just as often.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I have already answered this, besides a well built Tv is usually designed well in other areas
    So by your logic, Panasonic's top-ranked reliability is an indicator of their TVs being "usually designed well in other areas"?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Sour grapes?
    In case you haven't noticed my side is winning.
    Not if you actually care about picture quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    There are only like two plasma manufacturers left, and they are getting harder and harder to find.
    Sam's Club isn't the only place to buy a TV, y'know. Best Buy alone carries more than 50 plasma models. Go into a high end demo room like at Magnolia, and the plasmas make up more than half of the demo units.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    SO WHERE ARE ALL OF THOSE PLASMA BUYERS?
    Check this board and other enthusiast sites, you'll find plenty of them. Just about every time you pushed people towards LCD on these threads, they wind up buying a plasma.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I WILL MAKE YOU THIS GUARENTEE, as soon as Panny can get out of plasma without losing face...THEY WILL
    How many years will that be? Panny will be onto OLED, along with everybody else, by that time. In the meantime, Panny's flat panel manufacturing market share has been growing -- last year, they moved up from #5 to #3 in flat panel unit shipments.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I JUST SAW ONE OF THOSE, and since you insist on sitting 90 defrees to the side of a picture I checked this.
    The picture looked just as good almost to the point of not being able to see it
    Yeah, and you don't calibrate your set, and think that the stretch mode looks great too.

    BTW, how very rational of you to respond to this post TWICE. Short-term memory issues?
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  5. #55
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Like I said, mastering studios and productions facilities are where performance matters. Cost is not an issue if the replacement technology improves the performance. The monitoring speakers, the editing decks, and the software gets upgraded all the time in those applications, so it's not the cost that keeps high end users on CRTs.
    Its THE COST

    Repeating a slated opinion over and over is more symptomatic of mental illness than fact.
    denying a fact over and over doesnt change the fact




    Panasonic is the brand that I have at home, so why would I mention it less often than brands that I'm less familiar with?
    From your posts you arent very familar with any type of display tech



    The points on motion resolution are factual, and bourne out in test after test. I've cited the results many times, and it's been ignored by you just as often.
    You can cite them all you want to, and while you cite them cite the number of angels
    that can dance on the head of a pin.
    Its all BS, no way to accurately measure resolution while a picture has movement,
    nor is there any need to





    Not if you actually care about picture quality.
    Which I care about more than being trendy



    Sam's Club isn't the only place to buy a TV, y'know. Best Buy alone carries more than 50 plasma models. Go into a high end demo room like at Magnolia, and the plasmas make up more than half of the demo units.
    Guess they have to have them somewhere



    Check this board and other enthusiast sites, you'll find plenty of them. Just about every time you pushed people towards LCD on these threads, they wind up buying a plasma.
    Not enough to keep plasma alive.
    The delusions of "enthusiaists" are well known, 300 buck power cords, 20,000
    record players, anything that their fragil ego thinks sets them apart from the "crowd"



    How many years will that be? Panny will be onto OLED, along with everybody else, by that time. In the meantime, Panny's flat panel manufacturing market share has been growing -- last year, they moved up from #5 to #3 in flat panel unit shipments.
    Does that include LCD? HMMM?



    Yeah, and you don't calibrate your set, and think that the stretch mode looks great too.
    I calibrate my set myself.
    You can "calibrate" something all day long but eventually it boils down to what you like.
    And "strech" mode? Where do you get this crap?
    I just posted on another thread that I have my tv box set to 480i so I can watch
    material in 4:3, like its intended.


    BTW, how very rational of you to respond to this post TWICE. Short-term memory issues?
    You dont seem to be listening.
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  6. #56
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Its THE COST
    Again, cost is not an issue for professional and other high end applications. If a studio will routinely shell out tens of thousands to upgrade the other studio equipment and software on a regular basis, the only reason they don't switch out to flat panels is because the performance still isn't up to their standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    denying a fact over and over doesnt change the fact
    Repetition does not turn opinion into fact, but that doesn't stop you from trying.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    From your posts you arent very familar with any type of display tech
    Right, and all that time you spend at Sam's Club makes you an expert.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    You can cite them all you want to, and while you cite them cite the number of angels
    that can dance on the head of a pin.
    Its all BS, no way to accurately measure resolution while a picture has movement,
    nor is there any need to
    BS to you, only because the conclusions don't support your biases. The tests simply quantify what experts had been noting for years regarding LCD's deficient motion performance. The motion resolution tests have already become industry standard. Even LCD manufacturers like Sony and Samsung have been citing the motion resolution test results for their LED LCDs, since the models with local dimming backlights perform well on those tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Which I care about more than being trendy
    So, now picture quality is trendy to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Not enough to keep plasma alive.
    The delusions of "enthusiaists" are well known, 300 buck power cords, 20,000
    record players, anything that their fragil ego thinks sets them apart from the "crowd"
    Plasma is coming off a record year in terms of both unit shipments and sales growth,so it's hardly just "enthusiasts" that are buying them. No fragile egos, just the common sense to pay much less for a TV that still performs better than LCD TVs that cost twice as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Does that include LCD? HMMM?
    It includes everything, but keep in mind even without a complete LCD lineup (i.e, no 1080p models, no 120 Hz models, no models larger than 32"), Panasonic is growing its market share. And its plasma growth last year outpaced the growth for the entire LCD market.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I calibrate my set myself.
    Using what? Without a color filter and a calibration disc, you have no valid benchmark to start with. And obviously your eyes aren't exactly reliable if don't notice things like color shifting on LCD TVs. The images below come from Displaymate's recent HDTV test, which showed that the color shifting on the LCDs begin when the viewer moves as little as one foot off-center.


    Panasonic plasma at 0 degree angle

    Panasonic plasma at 45 degree angle


    Sony LCD at 0 degree angle

    Sony LCD at 45 degree angle

    http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut.htm
    The shocking conclusion is that only one person at a time can see accurate color reproduction on a direct-view LCD HDTV, even on top-of-the-line units from the top manufacturers. Even when viewers are seated close together side-by-side, each person will see a different picture with noticeably different coloration. On the other hand, Plasma displays deliver very close to true 180 degree (±90 degree) viewing, the same as traditional CRT monitors. There is very little change in brightness, contrast, hue, or color saturation over the entire 180 degree viewing area.
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    You can "calibrate" something all day long but eventually it boils down to what you like.
    Calibrations don't take all day long. I've never spent more than 15 minutes doing a TV calibration, even using the three color filter tests from Video Essentials. You set it, tweak it, and leave it. Having that reference baseline is where you have to start, otherwise the calibration is nothing more than an uneducated guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And "strech" mode? Where do you get this crap?
    From your prior posts, where'd indicated that's how you watch your TV.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I just posted on another thread that I have my tv box set to 480i so I can watch
    material in 4:3, like its intended.
    That's an improvement. Congrats.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    You dont seem to be listening.
    And you couldn't figure out that you'd already responded once before.
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  7. #57
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    LCD or Plasma? This is a pretty recent article and seems to fall in line with what Wooch has been saying. And, also addresses a few of Pix's claims.

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/e...-or-plasma.htm

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    LCD or Plasma? This is a pretty recent article and seems to fall in line with what Wooch has been saying. And, also addresses a few of Pix's claims.

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/e...-or-plasma.htm
    Thanks. Pretty much confirms what everyone has been saying and Pix refuses to believe:

    Plamsa is cheaper, lifespan the same, plasma has better picture unless you have no control over bright viewing conditions, plasma uses more energy, plasma has better viewing angle. I think the burn in issue is overstated, as I do a lot of things that you supposedly shouldn't do, and yet have no issues with it or image retention.

    Consumer reports = Panasonic Shill
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  9. #59
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    LCD or Plasma? This is a pretty recent article and seems to fall in line with what Wooch has been saying. And, also addresses a few of Pix's claims.

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/e...-or-plasma.htm
    It's not just CR. The vast majority of professional reviewers and review sites have come to the same conclusions -- the differences are narrowing, and both screen techs have worked at minimizing their respective design drawbacks. But, as things stand right now, plasma is still the way to go in most cases if you want the best overall picture quality for the money.

    The Displaymate article that I posted confirms what I've been saying for months -- the various fixes that LCD sets has been incorporating into the newer models solve old problems but introduce new ones in the process.

    For example, going with 120/240 Hz motion interpolation indeed brings the motion resolution closer to plasma levels, but it also makes film-based sources look like they got shot on a camcorder Using sequential LED backlighting with local dimming brings the motion resolution and the contrast up to plasma levels, but it further narrows the already narrow viewing angle AND it has the side effect of blurring out many of the details in dark scenes (for example, the Displaymate article noted that a starfield scene from 2001 got completely blanked out when the local dimming was turned on). In addition, that article and other reviews have noted that sequential LED backlights also have the effect of creating haloing artifacts when bright images appear close to dark areas.

    Everything's a tradeoff, and plasma's not perfect either. That's why I started this thread in the first place, because perhaps OLED (or SED) will finally give us a screen tech that's clearly superior in all facets, without the compromises inherent in all the current screen techs. The first large format OLED sets are due out next year, so we'll have an answer to that very shortly.
    Last edited by Woochifer; 07-02-2009 at 04:20 PM.
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  10. #60
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    The CR article pretty much recommended the 120hz but I thought there was a thread started here that shed bad light on that feature, like you mentioned Wooch. Hopefully the ole DLP will hang in there until we have a definitive technology or two. If I was buying for my HT I would buy plasma, if I was buying for the living room it would be LCD. The wife likes the curtains open most of the time in the living room and the kiddies like the video games.

  11. #61
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    The CR article pretty much recommended the 120hz but I thought there was a thread started here that shed bad light on that feature, like you mentioned Wooch. Hopefully the ole DLP will hang in there until we have a definitive technology or two. If I was buying for my HT I would buy plasma, if I was buying for the living room it would be LCD. The wife likes the curtains open most of the time in the living room and the kiddies like the video games.
    The primary issue with 120 Hz LCD is with the motion interpolation feature, which just about every professional reviewer prefers to disable. As I said, the motion interpolation makes film images look like they were shot on video. The 120 Hz refresh rate alone does slightly raise the motion resolution, but it still falls well short of plasma TVs without the motion interpolation switched on. With the interpolation turned on, the motion resolution is much improved, but the picture just looks bizarre at best.

    120 Hz TVs can also smooth out the juddering on film-based images caused by 3:2 pulldown. But, here too you need to be careful because only the newer 120 Hz models correctly use the 5:5 frame repeating necessary to reduce the judder. Among the 2008 models, my understanding is that only Sony did this correctly.

    I'm with you on hoping that we will have a more definitive screen option available soon.
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  12. #62
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Again, cost is not an issue for professional and other high end applications. If a studio will routinely shell out tens of thousands to upgrade the other studio equipment and software on a regular basis, the only reason they don't switch out to flat panels is because the performance still isn't up to their standards.



    Repetition does not turn opinion into fact, but that doesn't stop you from trying.
    And a fact is not disapear by wishing , but you keep trying.
    Bottom line is key in most business decisions


    Right, and all that time you spend at Sam's Club makes you an expert.
    Do ya know, they dont carry plasma anymore?

    BS to you, only because the conclusions don't support your biases. The tests simply quantify what experts had been noting for years regarding LCD's deficient motion performance. The motion resolution tests have already become industry standard. Even LCD manufacturers like Sony and Samsung have been citing the motion resolution test results for their LED LCDs, since the models with local dimming backlights perform well on those tests.
    Doesnt change anything, your "motion res" tests are just extrapolated hokum.
    A test pattern is the only way to get an accurate res measurement.
    But that wouldnt help your biases any now would it


    So, now picture quality is trendy to you?
    Picture q is what its all about, not bragging because I have a certain display tech



    Plasma is coming off a record year in terms of both unit shipments and sales growth,so it's hardly just "enthusiasts" that are buying them. No fragile egos, just the common sense to pay much less for a TV that still performs better than LCD TVs that cost twice as much.
    What a maroon.
    A 1080p 42" LCD can be had for 700 bucks.
    Are you actually saying a 1080p plasma is 350?
    MAYBE AT THE CLOSEOUT SALE...



    It includes everything, but keep in mind even without a complete LCD lineup (i.e, no 1080p models, no 120 Hz models, no models larger than 32"), Panasonic is growing its market share. And its plasma growth last year outpaced the growth for the entire LCD market.
    DOESNT change the ultimate fate of plasma, the only spot in its future is in the attic
    next to the eight track tape player


    Using what? Without a color filter and a calibration disc, you have no valid benchmark to start with. And obviously your eyes aren't exactly reliable if don't notice things like color shifting on LCD TVs. The images below come from Displaymate's recent HDTV test, which showed that the color shifting on the LCDs begin when the viewer moves as little as one foot off-center.
    I dont notice "color" shifting on any set because IT DOESNT EXIST.
    The change in picture is due to a number of things but teh color stays pretty much constant




    Panasonic plasma at 0 degree angle

    Panasonic plasma at 45 degree angle


    Sony LCD at 0 degree angle

    Sony LCD at 45 degree angle

    http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut.htm




    Calibrations don't take all day long. I've never spent more than 15 minutes doing a TV calibration, even using the three color filter tests from Video Essentials. You set it, tweak it, and leave it. Having that reference baseline is where you have to start, otherwise the calibration is nothing more than an uneducated guess.
    MAN , are you so scared of your own observation that everything has to be calibrated?
    Most sets these days are very close, and people are going to adjust the set to their liking anyway.
    DON'T TELL ME, YOU'RE one of those guys that watch an unpleasant picture because thats the way its "supposed" to be?











    And you couldn't figure out that you'd already responded once before.

    You werent paying attention last time
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  13. #63
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zepman1
    Thanks. Pretty much confirms what everyone has been saying and Pix refuses to believe:

    Plamsa is cheaper, lifespan the same, plasma has better picture unless you have no control over bright viewing conditions, plasma uses more energy, plasma has better viewing angle. I think the burn in issue is overstated, as I do a lot of things that you supposedly shouldn't do, and yet have no issues with it or image retention.

    Consumer reports = Panasonic Shill
    Consumer reports came right down the middle on the subject.
    You think plasma is better? Buy one, its your money.
    As it will be when you replace it.
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  14. #64
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And a fact is not disapear by wishing , but you keep trying.
    Bottom line is key in most business decisions
    Facts don't disappear. Your opinions never were facts to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Do ya know, they dont carry plasma anymore?
    And Best Buy, Costco, countless others DO. All this means is that you can't make any credible observations about plasma, given that you haven't even seen any of the currently available models. Of course, all your info dates back to the last century anyway, so this doesn't change anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    A test pattern is the only way to get an accurate res measurement.
    What do you think the motion resolution tests are based on?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Picture q is what its all about, not bragging because I have a certain display tech
    Why do you think plasma owners focus on the picture quality? Nobody brags about owning a plasma TV just because it's a plasma. You're the only one on this board that obsesses about the tech itself, regardless of actual picture quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    What a maroon.
    A 1080p 42" LCD can be had for 700 bucks.
    Are you actually saying a 1080p plasma is 350?
    MAYBE AT THE CLOSEOUT SALE...
    And the picture quality on those $700 LCD fall far short of what a plasma in the same price class delivers. Even last year, 42" 1080p plasmas were already selling for under $800.

    The only LCD TVs that come close to even a low end plasma's motion resolution and contrast are the sequential LED models, and those sets DO cost twice as much. The only person talking about $350 plasmas is you. More deflection and distraction from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    DOESNT change the ultimate fate of plasma, the only spot in its future is in the attic
    next to the eight track tape player
    Same spot that LCDs will occupy once higher performing technologies ramp up. Or are you now saying that OLED is no longer the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I dont notice "color" shifting on any set because IT DOESNT EXIST.
    Typical reaction from you -- deny that something exists even after the iron clad proof is dangled in front of you. The image shifting has been confirmed in countless reviews and observations on this and other boards. The pictures I posted are proof positive that LCDs shift their colors when the viewing angle changes. Pictures don't lie, but a certain pixie on this board has told many of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    The change in picture is due to a number of things but teh color stays pretty much constant
    Only the plasma sets are "pretty much constant" from wide angles. The LCD's colors on those 45 degree images look far from constant to me. Doubt that it looks constant to anyone else who doesn't view the world through LCD fanboy lenses either.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    MAN , are you so scared of your own observation that everything has to be calibrated?
    So, the fact that I calibrate my sets using calibration discs and color filters is now a point of attack for you? I guess that to you ignorance is a virtue.

    I thought you said that you "calibrate" your TVs, yet you can't even tell (or won't admit) that color shifting occurs on LCD sets when viewing from an off angle. A calibration disc with a color filter would point this out right away. Is that why you're so scared of using calibration discs?

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Most sets these days are very close, and people are going to adjust the set to their liking anyway.
    The default settings are far from close, sometimes even among TVs made by the same company. Of course people adjust their set to their liking. As I've said over and over, the whole purpose of a calibration is having a CONSISTENT starting point.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    DON'T TELL ME, YOU'RE one of those guys that watch an unpleasant picture because thats the way its "supposed" to be?
    If DVDs, Blu-rays, and HDTV broadcasts are optimized to the same reference standards used in the DVE and Avia discs, then why would they purposely master the video output so that it looks "unpleasant"? In my experience, a calibrated picture on a decent plasma set is anything but "unpleasant." Unpleasant is watching the horrid picture quality on a cheap LCD TV at a warehouse club in the torch mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    You werent paying attention last time
    Pretty lame spin job, given that I hadn't even responded yet before you double posted. If anyone's not paying attention, it's someone who can't even figure out that he's responding to the SAME POST TWICE IN A ROW!
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  15. #65
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    pixelthis reminds me of a past poster who was a fan boy of giant boom box type speakers.
    Focus or something. So LOUD so CLEAR he had each speaker in a separate room.
    LCD TV's remind me of the difference in film.
    Agfa great colors. Rich not bright. Extremly pleasing.
    Kodak the most neutral.
    Fuji Over bright artificial looking picture's. For the WOW crowd.
    Not true to real. Over blown bright colors. Very fake lookng.
    Just like an LCD TV.
    I don't know how he can be so blind to all the motion problems.
    Just because a picture is bright and phony looking didn't might it better.
    The biggest problem with every LCD I've looked at is the horrible focus shifting on fast moving scenes.
    I could never be happy with any LCD TV I've looked in multiply stores.
    The motion problem is disgusting.
    I don't know how or why people can put up with that?
    It's worse then the rainbow effect on DLP TV's.
    BTW the also have the same type motion issues.
    Just not as annoying.
    It was enough though to cause me to buy the ancient, archaic, heavy, Hugh,
    smaller picture SONY KV34XBR NO motion issues at all.

  16. #66
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    Either the "rainbow effect" is something that only certain people are susceptible to or it's not an issue any more. No one in my family sees it on my Tosh nor has any one else who has viewed my set. Or, maybe certain brands.

  17. #67
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    From my research when I was first mesmerized by the Samsung DLP TV's
    I almost bought one of them until I saw the rainbow effect.
    It turns out that not everybody can see it.
    I am one of the unlucky one's.
    I can.
    Too bad. 70 lbs as opposed to 201lbs.

  18. #68
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Either the "rainbow effect" is something that only certain people are susceptible to or it's not an issue any more. No one in my family sees it on my Tosh nor has any one else who has viewed my set. Or, maybe certain brands.
    I have never seen it either.
    DLP is the way to go if PQ is key for you.
    You can get a 60" Mitshu DLP for less than 1600, stand included, the pic will blow the doors off of both LCD and plasma, although LED LCD will give it a run for the money,
    although nothing will beat that price.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTF
    pixelthis reminds me of a past poster who was a fan boy of giant boom box type speakers.
    Focus or something. So LOUD so CLEAR he had each speaker in a separate room.
    LCD TV's remind me of the difference in film.
    Agfa great colors. Rich not bright. Extremly pleasing.
    Kodak the most neutral.
    Fuji Over bright artificial looking picture's. For the WOW crowd.
    Not true to real. Over blown bright colors. Very fake lookng.
    Just like an LCD TV.
    I don't know how he can be so blind to all the motion problems.
    Just because a picture is bright and phony looking didn't might it better.
    The biggest problem with every LCD I've looked at is the horrible focus shifting on fast moving scenes.
    I could never be happy with any LCD TV I've looked in multiply stores.
    The motion problem is disgusting.
    I don't know how or why people can put up with that?
    It's worse then the rainbow effect on DLP TV's.
    BTW the also have the same type motion issues.
    Just not as annoying.
    It was enough though to cause me to buy the ancient, archaic, heavy, Hugh,
    smaller picture SONY KV34XBR NO motion issues at all.
    No, just hernia issues, short life issues, visible pixle structure issues.
    I have never seen any "motion" issues on any LCD, or any other kind of set.
    A lot of these "issues" come from the material itself, a camera temporarily out of focus during fast moving sceens.
    SCREEN CAPTURES ARE NOT VERY good as a rule but I think I will post a few.
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    No, just hernia issues, short life issues, visible pixle structure issues.
    I have never seen any "motion" issues on any LCD, or any other kind of set.
    A lot of these "issues" come from the material itself, a camera temporarily out of focus during fast moving sceens.
    SCREEN CAPTURES ARE NOT VERY good as a rule but I think I will post a few.

    Well Pixel I am jealous. I unfortunately can see the motion issue's you don't.
    My son has a LCD computer monitor and even though it is both smaller in overall size.
    MUCH lighter. I stick with my old archaic CDR monitor.
    Even as a kid he notices the difference between CRT and LCD monitor.
    Your very fortunate you can't see all the motion issue's with LCD.
    When I first saw the rainbow effect with DLP TV's I thought it was a very slick special effect Samsung put onto their demo disc to show off their color Platte.
    Wow was I wrong.
    Watching sports on an LCD TV is like riding a looping roller coaster.
    While I love the motion induced feeling riding the coaster,
    That is not what I want when I watch TV.

    Maybe by the time my CRT TV dies they'll finally have a suitable replacement.

  21. #71
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTF
    Well Pixel I am jealous. I unfortunately can see the motion issue's you don't.
    My son has a LCD computer monitor and even though it is both smaller in overall size.
    MUCH lighter. I stick with my old archaic CDR monitor.
    Even as a kid he notices the difference between CRT and LCD monitor.
    Your very fortunate you can't see all the motion issue's with LCD.
    When I first saw the rainbow effect with DLP TV's I thought it was a very slick special effect Samsung put onto their demo disc to show off their color Platte.
    Wow was I wrong.
    Watching sports on an LCD TV is like riding a looping roller coaster.
    While I love the motion induced feeling riding the coaster,
    That is not what I want when I watch TV.

    Maybe by the time my CRT TV dies they'll finally have a suitable replacement.
    Well, I hope you are not using a laptop for comparison.
    I dont like the pq on laps either, which is why I use my 42" Vizio for the computer.
    You are right about one thing, your CRT IS archaic.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Well, I hope you are not using a laptop for comparison.
    I dont like the pq on laps either, which is why I use my 42" Vizio for the computer.
    You are right about one thing, your CRT IS archaic.
    My son uses a very nice HP LCD monitor.
    I have given thought to pick one up for photo work.
    But for everyday use it isn't as nice as my archaic, ancient CRT 21" SONY G520.
    It took him a while to adjust to the slowness of motion compared to his old
    archaic, ancient CRT monitor.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Either the "rainbow effect" is something that only certain people are susceptible to or it's not an issue any more. No one in my family sees it on my Tosh nor has any one else who has viewed my set. Or, maybe certain brands.
    That rainbow effect was visible with older TVs that used the earlier DLP chips. It does not occur with the higher end sets that use a three-chip DLP setup. Not sure if the rainbow effect is still an issue with the newer single-chip DLP sets. Yet another reason why OLED and/or SED can't arrive soon enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    That rainbow effect was visible with older TVs that used the earlier DLP chips. It does not occur with the higher end sets that use a three-chip DLP setup. Not sure if the rainbow effect is still an issue with the newer single-chip DLP sets. Yet another reason why OLED and/or SED can't arrive soon enough.

    I haven't seen a DLP direct view TV with 3 chips.
    I've only read about 3 chip DLP being used in highend projector sets.
    Besides even DLP has motion issues.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTF
    I haven't seen a DLP direct view TV with 3 chips.
    I've only read about 3 chip DLP being used in highend projector sets.
    Besides even DLP has motion issues.
    You might be right. I just rechecked the spec sheet on Mitsubishi's Laservue and didn't see any mention of a three-chip setup.
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