2010: The Year OLED TV Makes Contact?

[Mr Peabody]

Do you know if the Toshiba DLP with The TI Mustang was a single chip?

[pixelthis]

Do you know if the Toshiba DLP with The TI Mustang was a single chip?

Probably.
I dont know how a three chip could have rainbows anyway, as they are a function of the color wheel, and that is done away with in three chip models(one color for each chip)
If your set is more than a few years old it has a single chip.
Anyway the ideal setup is three chips, one for each primary color, but that was too expensive(in other words TI was charging too much).
Having seen the handwriting on the wall(spelling DEATH) I guess they decided
to try with the three chip, which gets rid of the hated color wheel, so the had a three for one sale, and Mitshu went for it.

[Feanor]

Here's the thing, Pix. When I look around at my local options, the LCDs are not cheaper than the plasmas.

Well, here's an update. Whilst making a quick shopping trip to Costco for paper towels and glucosomine I spotted a Vizio 47" 1080 120 Hz for C$1200.

This is the first time I've see a Vizio in Canada, (not that I've looked really hard). This model above is still not listed at Costco.ca, so maybe it's a one-off shippment. In any case, in this market the it looks like a relative bargain, although at Costco I can still get a Sanyo 50" 1080 plasma for $1300 that I stll might prefer.

However my roof needs a $2500 repair so I'll be kissing off the TV for a while yet.

[StevenSurprenant]

The images below come from Displaymate's recent HDTV test, which showed that the color shifting on the LCDs begin when the viewer moves as little as one foot off-center.


Panasonic plasma at 0 degree angle

Panasonic plasma at 45 degree angle


Sony LCD at 0 degree angle

Sony LCD at 45 degree angle

http://www.displaymate.com/LCD_Plasma_ShootOut.htm

I'm really not jumping into this fray, but I have an LCD TV and from the side it doesn't look faded like the images from displaymate.com. There is a little fading, but it is very slight.

As one person said, ( I read it somewhere ), the picture quality coming into the set is greater than the differences between plasma and LCD. This is what I find to be generally true.

Technically plasma has the better picture, but in the real world, the differences are slight, too slight to argue about.

Neither tecnology is perfect.

[Woochifer]

I'm really not jumping into this fray, but I have an LCD TV and from the side it doesn't look faded like the images from displaymate.com. There is a little fading, but it is very slight.

The Displaymate comparison was done in a controlled setting, in which all of the sets were professionally calibrated. It's not about what someone says they see from their TV at home, it's about how these LCD and plasma TVs directly compare to one another when the viewing conditions are as identical as possible (a condition that you hardly ever see at a retail store). In fact, the article indicated that the color shifts are even more pronounced in person than on the photos. These pictures are only a part of what the article noted about the viewing angle. The comparison also used benchmark measurements and viewing tests with jury panelists. The color shifts went above the visually detectable threshold beginning around 15 degrees.

It should be noted that the primary color shift thresholds differed between the different LCD TVs in the test. The Sony had huge color shifting in the primary red color, and that was bourne out in the photos. Also, the Sharp LCD in the test differed significantly from the Sony and Samsung -- it had barely detectable color shifts in the red and green primary colors, but significant color shifts with mixed patterns. In all likelihood, I would guess that this had to do with Sharp's usage of IPS LCD panels, whereas Sony and Samsung often use PVA LCD panels.

As one person said, ( I read it somewhere ), the picture quality coming into the set is greater than the differences between plasma and LCD. This is what I find to be generally true.

Agreed, but video sources are chosen independent of the display. Regardless of whether I chose LCD or plasma, I would still use the same HD satellite receiver and BD player.

Neither tecnology is perfect.

Which is exactly why I started this thread ... to talk about OLED.

[pixelthis]

I'm really not jumping into this fray, but I have an LCD TV and from the side it doesn't look faded like the images from displaymate.com. There is a little fading, but it is very slight.

As one person said, ( I read it somewhere ), the picture quality coming into the set is greater than the differences between plasma and LCD. This is what I find to be generally true.

Technically plasma has the better picture, but in the real world, the differences are slight, too slight to argue about.

Neither tecnology is perfect.

The reason for that is that its a rigged test, quoted by a panny shill.
Very subtle propaganda, LCD is the "gang that never shoots straight,
if there is praise its faint, and mentioned right next to something thats dreadfully wrong.
Plasma, on the other hand is absolutely perfect, nothing wrong with that form factor,
nosireeebob!
For instance , off angle watching is mentioned, without nary a thought given to
the massive glare and brightness issues of plasma which makes them virtually unwatchable in a decently lit room.
Oh, you can turn up the brightness on a plasma, if you want to risk burn-in.
Just more propaganda from wooch, constantly bleating away about the perfect
veiwing device, a plasma tube.
Whose shortcomings he will find out about the hard way.

[StevenSurprenant]

Very subtle propaganda, LCD is the "gang that never shoots straight,

All I know is that it doesn't seem to be like that test with the TV's I have seen.

With LCD TV's smaller than 32 inch, I have seen that effect (even worse than the pictures above) on the vertical axis and with LCD computer monitors. I saw this effect even worse with Samsungs first LED LCD TV. It was so bad that moving your head slightly caused the picture to fade dramatically. Their newer LED LCD TV's were much better.

My main LCD TV is in my living room and many times I watch it from the kitchen where the computer is. I am about 2 feet from the front of the screen and 20 feet off to the right with the TV slightly angled toward me and the picture is good, nothing like the examples given. That's greater than 45 degrees. My other LCD is in the bedroom and it is more like the examples given in the other post. They are both from Samsung, but the one in the living room is much better with off angle viewing.

Oh well, people have been arguing about this since LCD's have first come out. Then of course, the CRT crowd says that Plasma is inferior to CRT.

Frankly, I think they are all pretty good and the differences are too slight to even argue about this.

I do know this, I have seen calibrated plasma TV's in the stores and they look much worse than the other TV's in torch mode. At home, torch mode is almost unwatchable. It just seems to me that maybe in a totally dark room, plasma might be better, but in a bright room, LCD is better. It could go either way, depending on the model?

But like Woochifer said, this thread was about OLED which promises to be even better than either technology. I have never seen one, but I know that there is a problem with life expectancy, at least for the moment.

Let's not forget laser and SED. Laser claims to have a much greater color spectrum than plasma while using less power. SED is still in the closet pending legal issues. All the while, 3D TV is looming over the horizon.

This discussion reminds me of back in the day when people would argue whether Ford, Chrysler, or Chevy were the fastest cars. Looking back, it didn't amount to squat. One model might have been faster in the quarter mile while another had a higher top end. Then the new models came out and that might change. It went back and forth.

Wait another 10 or 20 years and people will say that the TV's of today were terrible and almost unwatchable in comparison to the newer technology.

When TV's can fool me into thinking that I am looking through a window is when I will say that it is good. Until then, we are arguing about the superiority of inferior technology.

[Woochifer]

The reason for that is that its a rigged test, quoted by a panny shill.

Obviously didn't read the article, did you?

Very subtle propaganda, LCD is the "gang that never shoots straight,
if there is praise its faint, and mentioned right next to something thats dreadfully wrong.
Plasma, on the other hand is absolutely perfect, nothing wrong with that form factor,
nosireeebob!

Shoulda checked post #59 before you started with another factually challeged rant.

For instance , off angle watching is mentioned, without nary a thought given to
the massive glare and brightness issues of plasma which makes them virtually unwatchable in a decently lit room.

The anti-glare coatings on the newer plasmas make this a non-issue. And if glare is such a problem, then why is Samsung now going with glossy screens on many of their LCD models?

The off-angle viewing issue with LCDs is long standing, and implementing LED backlighting seems to have just made it worse.

Oh, you can turn up the brightness on a plasma, if you want to risk burn-in.

Not an issue. Try shopping somewhere outside of Sam's Club once in a while if you want proof that plasma TVs are no longer shipped in metal containers.

Just more propaganda from wooch, constantly bleating away about the perfect
veiwing device, a plasma tube.

If I thought plasma was perfect, why would I start a thread about OLED TVs?

Whose shortcomings he will find out about the hard way.

Pretty sad when all you're reduced to is pleading for people's TVs to break.

[pixelthis]

Obviously didn't read the article, did you?

SURE, and it claims to measure something that changes with every setup configuration.
No way to accuratly tell what off axis viewing is like in every situation

Shoulda checked post #59 before you started with another factually challeged rant.

Keep getting facts confused dont we?

The anti-glare coatings on the newer plasmas make this a non-issue. And if glare is such a problem, then why is Samsung now going with glossy screens on many of their LCD models?

Maybe they are going after the plasma tv buyer, since they seem to like glossy
unviewable sctreens.
Next they are releasing an LCD so dim you cant see it in the dark, that should
grab a lot of plasma buyers

The off-angle viewing issue with LCDs is long standing, and implementing LED backlighting seems to have just made it worse.

ACTUALLY, no.
I actually watched one of these (a sharp) and noticed hardly any dec5rease in PQ
AT ALL STANDING OFF AXIS

Not an issue. Try shopping somewhere outside of Sam's Club once in a while if you want proof that plasma TVs are no longer shipped in metal containers.

Do they ship your meds in metal containers? I DONT RECALL SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT , although until recently plasmas were shipped in metal containers
because they tended to break quite a bit

If I thought plasma was perfect, why would I start a thread about OLED TVs?

YOU got me, I guess a brokem clock is right once or twice a day

Pretty sad when all you're reduced to is pleading for people's TVs to break.

And where is that mentioned? Imagining things again?
Your plasma wont have to break for you to regret the purchase, not by a long shot.
PHOSPER degrades over time and use, your picture will change, most likely not
for the better, and when it does I wont even say I told you so (well, maybe one or two times).

[bobsticks]

Wooch, you and I have been e-acquaintances for some time now and i have always appreciated your moldy wordsmithing lo these many years...which i regard as the highest quality, especially for a Panny-shill.

By the way, I was a pannyshill once until I got kicked out of the sorority house.

[Woochifer]

SURE, and it claims to measure something that changes with every setup configuration.
No way to accuratly tell what off axis viewing is like in every situation

Changing the subject as usual. A setup configuration will only change how the image shifts off-axis, but the fact remains that it does change and quite drastically at that. Moving the red and green tints around doesn't prevent image shifting from occurring. In addition, the contrast measurements at 45 degrees showed a decrease of 75%+, and the setup configuration does nothing to mitigate that. Compare this with the plasmas which showed virtually no change on both the color and contrast off-axis measurements.

Keep getting facts confused dont we?

Nope, you just keep lying about what people actually say in order to prolong your little trolling exercises. Quoting people accurately would actually force you to shut up.

Maybe they are going after the plasma tv buyer, since they seem to like glossy
unviewable sctreens.

No, they're just going in the same direction as the LCD monitor and notebook computer market, which has been shifting towards glossy screens for years.

Next they are releasing an LCD so dim you cant see it in the dark, that should
grab a lot of plasma buyers

Blacked out screens on low level details already occur with those top of the line local dimming LED models. I doubt any plasma owner would want to pay big bucks for that.

ACTUALLY, no.
I actually watched one of these (a sharp) and noticed hardly any dec5rease in PQ
AT ALL STANDING OFF AXIS

Is this something you confirmed with a calibration disc, or are you just guessing yet again? The measured test results don't lie, but your uncontrolled blatherings often do.

Do they ship your meds in metal containers? I DONT RECALL SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT , although until recently plasmas were shipped in metal containers
because they tended to break quite a bit

So anything that occurred more than a decade ago is now "recent" in your view? You know we're in the 21st century, or is that news to you?

YOU got me, I guess a brokem clock is right once or twice a day

In other words, you LIED when you claimed that I said that plasma was perfect.

And where is that mentioned? Imagining things again?
Your plasma wont have to break for you to regret the purchase, not by a long shot.
PHOSPER degrades over time and use, your picture will change, most likely not
for the better, and when it does I wont even say I told you so (well, maybe one or two times).

Blah blah blah. Just can't bring yourself to accept that plasma owners are quite happy with their TVs, eh? You're getting quite desperate here.

[Woochifer]

Wooch, you and I have been e-acquaintances for some time now and i have always appreciated your moldy wordsmithing lo these many years...which i regard as the highest quality, especially for a Panny-shill.

By the way, I was a pannyshill once until I got kicked out of the sorority house.

Quit phishing for greenies! You know the gun's still stuck, don't you?

[Mr Peabody]

Wooch, if your gun is stuck, I believe they have medicine for that now.

[Smokey]

Well, my gun is not jammed

Everybody is getting greenies, including Pixelman for pushing Wooch's buttons.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

(Sir T sneaks in and looks about and proclaims) I see Wooch and the pixelated one is still goin at it. Some tings never change, Wooch knows what he is talking about, and the pixelated one does not.

Pixel, you make some outrageous claims that are just not supported by the science. I hate to tell you to go back to school, but they threw you out because you cannot keep up with the class. Tsk, tsk.....

[Groundbeef]

Pix is the SHAM-WOW guy for Vizio. I bet he even wears the hands free headset around the house. Randomly shouts out "NO BURN IN-EVER!!!!"

[Luvin Da Blues]

Pix is the SHAM-WOW guy for Vizio. I bet he even wears the hands free headset around the house. Randomly shouts out "NO BURN IN-EVER!!!!"

I would think there must be sumptin' burnin' I his pipe to offer up those comments of his.

[Mr Peabody]

What's up GB? You've been away or we just haven't managed being on the same thread in a while.

[pixelthis]

(Sir T sneaks in and looks about and proclaims) I see Wooch and the pixelated one is still goin at it. Some tings never change, Wooch knows what he is talking about, and the pixelated one does not.

Most propagandistas do, they just choose to never mention the truth


Pixel, you make some outrageous claims that are just not supported by the science. I hate to tell you to go back to school, but they threw you out because you cannot keep up with the class. Tsk, tsk.....

Your body surriving with so little brain power is not supported by science either.
Where have you been talky? get sent to juvi for pushing the principles car into the school swimming pool?

[pixelthis]

Changing the subject as usual. A setup configuration will only change how the image shifts off-axis, but the fact remains that it does change and quite drastically at that. Moving the red and green tints around doesn't prevent image shifting from occurring. In addition, the contrast measurements at 45 degrees showed a decrease of 75%+, and the setup configuration does nothing to mitigate that. Compare this with the plasmas which showed virtually no change on both the color and contrast off-axis measurements.

No home video setup is the same , and conditions such as lighting always affect off axis viewing

Nope, you just keep lying about what people actually say in order to prolong your little trolling exercises. Quoting people accurately would actually force you to shut up.

Everybody on this site knows just how much of a propagandist for panny you are.
I rest my case

No, they're just going in the same direction as the LCD monitor and notebook computer market, which has been shifting towards glossy screens for years.

Sorry, I forgot that you have absolutelu no sense of humour whatsoever.
Which is too bad, bacause when that plasma contraption goes south you'll need one

Blacked out screens on low level details already occur with those top of the line local dimming LED models. I doubt any plasma owner would want to pay big bucks for that.

If you are talking about the perfect black level from LED backlight models, then you are probably right, since what plasma owners do makes very little sense anyway.

Is this something you confirmed with a calibration disc, or are you just guessing yet again? The measured test results don't lie, but your uncontrolled blatherings often do.

There you go, talking about frabicated test results again.
No, I JUST EYEBALLED IT, but it looked really good.
Not that it matters, I sit IN FRONT of a TV when I watch it

So anything that occurred more than a decade ago is now "recent" in your view? You know we're in the 21st century, or is that news to you?

YOU KNOW A BETTER TECH HAS SUPERSEDED plasma dont you?
Its called LCD.

In other words, you LIED when you claimed that I said that plasma was perfect.

I said that you [I]thought [I] plasma was perfect


Blah blah blah. Just can't bring yourself to accept that plasma owners are quite happy with their TVs, eh? You're getting quite desperate here. [/QUOTE]

I am glad that plasma owners are happy with there dim, phosper based tech, which they
think is good because it resembles what they are used to.
They will be dragged kicking and screaming into teh future sooner or later

[pixelthis]

Pix is the SHAM-WOW guy for Vizio. I bet he even wears the hands free headset around the house. Randomly shouts out "NO BURN IN-EVER!!!!"

THIS from the guy whose plasma cost 2500 bucks to fix, and them turned around and bought another one.
"No burn in ever" is certainly something you can't claim.
Jealous?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Your body surriving with so little brain power is not supported by science either.
Where have you been talky? get sent to juvi for pushing the principles car into the school swimming pool?

You have had no problem surviving with no brain, so it just goes to show how little brain power it takes to debate you.

[bobsticks]

Pix is the SHAM-WOW guy for Vizio. I bet he even wears the hands free headset around the house. Randomly shouts out "NO BURN IN-EVER!!!!"

Pix beats up hookers?

[Mr Peabody]

So when Wooch uses published tests they are fabricated but when Pix uses them, such as trumped up DBT's, what are they, then?

[pixelthis]

So when Wooch uses published tests they are fabricated but when Pix uses them, such as trumped up DBT's, what are they, then?

Wooch uses mostly "tests" from a site called display mate, and since the colors
on that site are panny blue, you can guess who owns the company.
And nonsense is nonsense , no matter where it comes from( like motion resolution,
which is impossible to accurrately measure).
Basically the mantra of sites like these are all the same...
LCD BAD...PLASMA GOOD.
Never mind that a 1080p plasma, using phosper, is going to be very dim, since the
individual elements are so small(two million of em, they have to be).
And never mind that the newer LCD sets give a combination of black levels and
a bright picture, thanks to LED backlights, that beat the pants off of anything plasma.
And never mind that response times are down to 5 milisecs, which makes motion blur impossible, the normal blurring that takes place during normal photograpy is always going to be shown as a fault of theCD panel, never mind that the same motion blur also shows up on plasma, CRT, etc.
But I dont know why I ARGUE , THE BATTLE HAS BEEN WON,
plasma is about to go the way of the passenger pigeon.
You can get a 50" 720p lcd for less than 900 bucks, sure its a Sanyo, hardly
a stellar brand, but Hier and Vizio are pretty good, and both are selling 32"
sets for under 400 bucks.
The main job of Panny and its shill sites, and faithfull troops like wooch,
is to appeal to the innate snobbery of a lot of "HT" fans, keep plasma sales
high enough to make back some of the amounts of money Panny has invested in
what is basically an obsolete format.
Considering the dropping of plasma by most, they are facing an uphill battle,
especially among the more informed, who are just waiting for either LED backed LCD
to lower in price, or OLED to become market ready.
ME, I am just praying I hit the lottery so I can get one of the LED sets,
what I see of them proves that they have beaten a longstanding problem with
all of the new display techs, "light leak", which hurts blacks(yes, its also a problem for plasma).