Who Has an SPL Calibrated System?

[Woochifer]

I'm with the others, I don't see how anyone can make a multithousand dollar investment in a HT system and then just go with the factory default settings or try setting the levels by ear alone.

Before I got my SPL meter and test disc, I was constantly tweaking with the settings. Once I got the SPL meter and test disc, I just set it and forget it. The ears alone cannot detect the magnitude of the adjustments that need to be made for five or seven speakers. In addition, whenever furniture gets moved around the room, the settings change, but again not on order of magnitude where it's easy to shift the settings by ear. Basically, you know something's out of balance when you hear it, and using the SPL meter simply means that you can quickly and accurately make the changes, so you can enjoy your system rather than spend a lot of time trying to figure out what's wrong and how to remedy it.

I also have my speakers aligned to the ITU reference placement which specifies 30 degrees off-center for the mains and 110 degrees off-center for the surrounds, and that too was a case where I was changing things up constantly, yet once I put them into that reference alignment, it sounded right and I haven't had to change it since then.

As far as the YPAO is concerned, I've read that the auto calibration will give you erroneous readings if your room has a lot of ambient noise. I think in that case, depending on the type of test tone used, it still might be better to manually calibrate using a SPL meter and test disc because the tone generators on receivers typically use wideband test tones (don't know the type of tone that the YPAO uses), which are more prone to erroneous readings than the narrow band tones used on the Avia, DVE, and S&V discs. However, the parametric equalization function on the YPAO is something that cannot be duplicated by any external processor, and IMO that's really the area where calibration functions like the YPAO make a huge difference.

[landfill]

After reading many of these posts, I decided that I should calibrate my system. So off to radioshack.com to order an analogue SPL meter. But, they were sold out... Oh well, no problem, I'll search the nearby Radioshack locations for one. After all, I live in Manhattan and there are five of them within walking distance. Nope, sorry... all five are sold out... Anyone have an idea where I could pick one of these things up? Preferably under $40. And what's this Avia DVD I keep hearing about?

[wasch_24]

That just goes to show different strokes for different folks. The YPAO did pick them up as large as well. I have the LFE output to 'Both'. Maybe that is why I prefer the large setting. Set up as both I was still getting LFE from the woofers with the LFE input disconnected. I think the internal crossover was changing the frequency range being used from the L and R main outs on the receiver. It seems to compliment the LFE output from the receiver. Also, I recently built a built-in entertainment center and created a sort of sealed box around the mains and it really improved the LFE from these speakers. If I ever get around to it I will post some pics.

[JSE]

After reading many of these posts, I decided that I should calibrate my system. So off to radioshack.com to order an analogue SPL meter. But, they were sold out... Oh well, no problem, I'll search the nearby Radioshack locations for one. After all, I live in Manhattan and there are five of them within walking distance. Nope, sorry... all five are sold out... Anyone have an idea where I could pick one of these things up? Preferably under $40. And what's this Avia DVD I keep hearing about?

Might check Ebay. They seem to show up there fairly often. They are kind of hit and miss with being in stock since the new analog model came out a few months back. The local store by my house always seems to have them but I have not checked lately.

The Avia DVD can be found at Amazon.com if you want to go the internet route. Some audio stores have them as well.

JSE

[wasch_24]

I also have the LFE set to both but I still prefer the small setting. In contrast to your set up, there is alot of open air to the side of my mains and I have them about 2 1/2 to 3 feet out from the back walls. The large setting tends to muddy up the bass a little in my room.

Pretty cool how basically indentical set ups can behave so differently in different rooms. Post some picks of your custom cabinet when you get the chance. Always cool to see other people's custom woodwork.

JSE

I wouldn't go as far as calling it custom woodwork. It's all 5/8" MDF and 2X4's. But it does look like it is part of the wall. I have a six month old at home so getting time on the computer is pretty rare at home but I will try and post soon. Do I just use the upload/post photos button?

[JSE]

That just goes to show different strokes for different folks. The YPAO did pick them up as large as well. I have the LFE output to 'Both'. Maybe that is why I prefer the large setting. Set up as both I was still getting LFE from the woofers with the LFE input disconnected. I think the internal crossover was changing the frequency range being used from the L and R main outs on the receiver. It seems to compliment the LFE output from the receiver. Also, I recently built a built-in entertainment center and created a sort of sealed box around the mains and it really improved the LFE from these speakers. If I ever get around to it I will post some pics.

I also have the LFE set to both but I still prefer the small setting. In contrast to your set up, there is alot of open air to the side of my mains and I have them about 2 1/2 to 3 feet out from the back walls. The large setting tends to muddy up the bass a little in my room.

Pretty cool how basically indentical set ups can behave so differently in different rooms. Post some picks of your custom cabinet when you get the chance. Always cool to see other people's custom woodwork.

JSE

[wasch_24]

WTF how did my response slip in before the post I was responding to?

[JSE]

WTF how did my response slip in before the post I was responding to?

Same thing happened to me the other day. I actually got in front of the original post. WTF?

In terms of uploading photos, your are correct. Just hit browse and click the photos you want from your source.

JSE

[wasch_24]

Same thing happened to me the other day. I actually got in front of the original post. WTF?

In terms of uploading photos, your are correct. Just hit browse and click the photos you want from your source.

JSE

Roger

[Woochifer]

After reading many of these posts, I decided that I should calibrate my system. So off to radioshack.com to order an analogue SPL meter. But, they were sold out... Oh well, no problem, I'll search the nearby Radioshack locations for one. After all, I live in Manhattan and there are five of them within walking distance. Nope, sorry... all five are sold out... Anyone have an idea where I could pick one of these things up? Preferably under $40. And what's this Avia DVD I keep hearing about?

Another option would be the Craftsman SPL meter that Sears sells. If you don't have a Sears store nearby, you could order one from their website.

As for the Avia DVD, it's a setup disc that help you set your sound levels and the video settings. If you've never used one before, you might want to start with the Sound & Vision Home Theater Setup disc. It's made by the same company that issues the Avia disc, but it's more at a beginner level, includes some good tutorials, is readily available at Borders, and costs about half what the more advanced Avia disc costs. Plus, the audio tests are more up to date because it includes both DTS and 6.1 tests, whereas the Avia disc dates back to 1999 and doesn't include those tests. IMO, a calibration disc of some kind is a necessity, and even though it helps with your audio settings, in my experience the biggest improvement is in the video. The Avia, S&V, and Digital Video Essential discs are the ones that people refer to most often. The S&V disc the simplest one, while the Avia and DVE discs are more advanced with more tests available.

[wasch_24]

I also have the LFE set to both but I still prefer the small setting. In contrast to your set up, there is alot of open air to the side of my mains and I have them about 2 1/2 to 3 feet out from the back walls. The large setting tends to muddy up the bass a little in my room.

Pretty cool how basically indentical set ups can behave so differently in different rooms. Post some picks of your custom cabinet when you get the chance. Always cool to see other people's custom woodwork.

JSE

It's not quite 'custom woodwork' persay (sp?). Just MDF and 2x4's

[magictooth]

I'm glad that this post has generated so much interest. It was mostly for Lexmark 3200 who staunchly refuses to calibrate his system for whatever mysterious reasons, but I'm not sure if he's read this thread. Too bad, it's his loss.

Lots of interesting anecdotes and tidbits here. The YPAO function seems to have created quite a buzz, and I'd be interested if I didn't already have a decent receiver. It seems like most everyone who has tried the Yamaha receiver is favourably impressed with that function. Can anybody clarify for me if I'm wrong, but is the YPAO something like a hybrid SPL and equalizer in one?

[Woochifer]

I'm glad that this post has generated so much interest. It was mostly for Lexmark 3200 who staunchly refuses to calibrate his system for whatever mysterious reasons, but I'm not sure if he's read this thread. Too bad, it's his loss.

Lots of interesting anecdotes and tidbits here. The YPAO function seems to have created quite a buzz, and I'd be interested if I didn't already have a decent receiver. It seems like most everyone who has tried the Yamaha receiver is favourably impressed with that function. Can anybody clarify for me if I'm wrong, but is the YPAO something like a hybrid SPL and equalizer in one?

You're right, the YPAO combines the functionality of a SPL meter and a parametric equalizer, and does the settings automatically. It also detects the distance and sets the delay timing automatically. The parametric EQ is the one function it has that cannot be duplicated with add-on equipment. I can tell you from using a parametric EQ with my subwoofer, they are not easy to learn, and can take a lot of time to use. It took me 1 1/2 hours just to do the subwoofer equalization, while the YPAO will setup all eight channels in 10 minutes.

High end processors like Lexicon, Theta, and TAG McLaren have had auto calibration functions for a while, but it's only recently that the feature's made its way into lower priced receivers. Pioneer's had a similar function on its Elite receivers for at least a couple of years, and Denon just added it to their new AVR-3805. By this time next year, I think just about every receiver manufacturer out there will have introduced some kind of auto calibration feature.

[Lexmark3200]

I'm glad that this post has generated so much interest. It was mostly for Lexmark 3200 who staunchly refuses to calibrate his system for whatever mysterious reasons, but I'm not sure if he's read this thread. Too bad, it's his loss.

Lots of interesting anecdotes and tidbits here. The YPAO function seems to have created quite a buzz, and I'd be interested if I didn't already have a decent receiver. It seems like most everyone who has tried the Yamaha receiver is favourably impressed with that function. Can anybody clarify for me if I'm wrong, but is the YPAO something like a hybrid SPL and equalizer in one?

]

LOL....massively LOL....

[vivisimonvi]

In response to the original topic (and for those supposed "idiots" who don't calibrate their system with a meter), I've had my system for years and never calibrated it with a meter. I think I'm a good judge when it comes to matching channels equally by hearing alone. For my birthday recently I asked for an analog SPL meter ($16 at RS at half price), I wouldn't have it bought it myself. In measuring my current system as it is, I was only 1 decibel off according to the meter for my 5 channel setup. This using different speakers with different efficiency ratings and seperate amplifiers. Calibrating it accordingly, I found little difference... except my subwoofer was a bit high, but for those who like the extra bass like myself, I keep it as it originally was.

I suppose this thing is a good reference to know how far your pushing your speakers decibel limits according to it's effeciency and wattage ratings (depending on certain frequency levels of course).

[Woochifer]

In response to the original topic (and for those supposed "idiots" who don't calibrate their system with a meter), I've had my system for years and never calibrated it with a meter. I think I'm a good judge when it comes to matching channels equally by hearing alone. For my birthday recently I asked for an analog SPL meter ($16 at RS at half price), I wouldn't have it bought it myself. In measuring my current system as it is, I was only 1 decibel off according to the meter for my 5 channel setup. This using different speakers with different efficiency ratings and seperate amplifiers. Calibrating it accordingly, I found little difference... except my subwoofer was a bit high, but for those who like the extra bass like myself, I keep it as it originally was.

I suppose this thing is a good reference to know how far your pushing your speakers decibel limits according to it's effeciency and wattage ratings (depending on certain frequency levels of course).

Well, it's always possible make the right guesses under the right conditions.

I would add though that any changes to the room or your setup (something as simple as changing the toe-in angle of the speaker or moving a piece of furniture) can make some noticeable shifts in the SPL readings. You'll know that a shift in the soundfield occurred by listening, but the SPL meter allows you to make the adjustment a lot quicker than trying to guess at the magnitudes of the changes across five speakers. Basically, you get it right the first time, and don't have to repeatedly tweak with the settings until it sounds right. I doubt that even the best golden ear out there can nail down the settings on the first try, and resist the urge to continually tweak with them afterwards.

Also, if your SPL measurements were taken with the tone generator on your receiver rather than a test disc like Avia or DVE, then your measurements could also be off because the wideband test tones on most receivers are more prone to erroneous readings due to room interactions than the more narrowband tones used on those test discs.

Depending on who you listen to, the SPL reading for the subwoofer SHOULD be about 4 to 8 db higher than the mains because human hearing is less sensitive in those lower octaves, and because the mic on the SPL meter is less sensitive in those ranges as well.

Also keep in mind that balancing the levels is probably the most rudimentary basic use of the SPL meter. If you're doing things like testing the room acoustics, or comparing effects from different room treatments, or identifying frequencies and bandwidths for subwoofer equalization, no way you can possibly do that right by ear. (Doing the parametric equalization settings for my subwoofer took 1 1/2 hours with a SPL meter; without the meter, I might as well cancel out the whole day, and even then it probably won't be right because of multiple variables involved)

[JSE]

In response to the original topic (and for those supposed "idiots" who don't calibrate their system with a meter), I've had my system for years and never calibrated it with a meter. I think I'm a good judge when it comes to matching channels equally by hearing alone. For my birthday recently I asked for an analog SPL meter ($16 at RS at half price), I wouldn't have it bought it myself. In measuring my current system as it is, I was only 1 decibel off according to the meter for my 5 channel setup. This using different speakers with different efficiency ratings and seperate amplifiers. Calibrating it accordingly, I found little difference... except my subwoofer was a bit high, but for those who like the extra bass like myself, I keep it as it originally was.

I suppose this thing is a good reference to know how far your pushing your speakers decibel limits according to it's effeciency and wattage ratings (depending on certain frequency levels of course).

Hey vivisimonvi,

Congrats on having your system sounding good. I think the main point of this whole topic is that for most people, calibrating your system will produce greatly improved sound. The best way to calibrate your system is to use an SPL meter or internal calibration systems like YPAO on yamaha. Most people cannot do this by ear. You are lucky to be able to get good results by ear, but this is not the norm for most people.

Bye the way, the Idiot comment was directed mainly at a certain person, not everyone. It was said with sarcasm. No offense intended.

JSE

[Lexmark3200]

Hey vivisimonvi,

Congrats on having your system sounding good. I think the main point of this whole topic is that for most people, calibrating your system will produce greatly improved sound. The best way to calibrate your system is to use an SPL meter or internal calibration systems like YPAO on yamaha. Most people cannot do this by ear. You are lucky to be able to get good results by ear, but this is not the norm for most people.

Bye the way, the Idiot comment was directed mainly at a certain person, not everyone. It was said with sarcasm. No offense intended.

JSE

And dont worry, Vivi.....just let those finding the need to call random, anonymous persons "idots" and the like from the comfort of their own homes, not face to face, waste their breath....if your system sounds good the way YOU have it tweaked, you are there, man!

[JSE]

And dont worry, Vivi.....just let those finding the need to call random, anonymous persons "idots" and the like from the comfort of their own homes, not face to face, waste their breath....if your system sounds good the way YOU have it tweaked, you are there, man!

LOL!

JaaaaaaaaSsssssEeeeeeeeeee!

[JSE]

And dont worry, Vivi.....just let those finding the need to call random, anonymous persons "idots" and the like from the comfort of their own homes, not face to face, waste their breath....if your system sounds good the way YOU have it tweaked, you are there, man!

Also, everything I say and do in these forums is said and done as JSE. "I" can back up everything I say and if I am wrong I admit it. I don't have the make up vairous screen names to try and hide my identity like some who are probably trying to hide from their own alter personalities because they are to ashamed of who they are from one moment to the other. Everyone here hides behind the safety of their computers to some extent. That's how an "online" forum works. At least "most" of us don't hide behind other identities.

Ever see the movie Indentity? Creepy!

JSE

[Lexmark3200]

Also, everything I say and do in these forums is said and done as JSE. "I" can back up everything I say and if I am wrong I admit it. I don't have the make up vairous screen names to try and hide my identity like some who are probably trying to hide from their own alter personalities because they are to ashamed of who they are from one moment to the other. Everyone here hides behind the safety of their computers to some extent. That's how an "online" forum works. At least "most" of us don't hide behind other identities.

Ever see the movie Indentity? Creepy!

JSE

Ah---ha.....I see. As long as he knows HIS system sounds fine as is and doesnt need to be called an idiot from behind a computer terminal, and not to his face, man to man.

[vivisimonvi]

I've never seen Identity myself though I might rent it this weekend. I use this handle on various forums and other places for years without change (seems everyone insists on refering me as Vivi instead of Simon). My system sounds fine to me of course only your opinion matters above all when it boils down to it.

For actual testing, I did use my receiver's internal test tone, calibrated by ear, then used the meter and the results weren't far off at all (from my listening position). Although I don't have an Avia disc, I was thinking of trying the THX Optimizer you find on some DVD's (like Finding Nemo, thanks to the other poster, I couldn't remember which DVD I had that actually has that).

I find this little device quite amusing, as I could never really guess how loud something is in terms of decibels (I've seen charts of course). One thing I do notice is that my place of work is a really loud place... I now (and sadly) realize my potential loss of hearing won't come from my sound system.

[JSE]

Ah---ha.....I see. As long as he knows HIS system sounds fine as is and doesnt need to be called an idiot from behind a computer terminal, and not to his face, man to man.

First, this is between me and you (Lexmark/TLADINY/JOHN) so quit trying to bring Vivi into it. There is a big difference between you and Vivi. You have a long history of asking the same questions over and over about problems when most of them could be resolved by an SPL meter. You also give your reviews regarding the audio on DVDs even though you are playing them on an uncalibrated system. Oh yes, and you are also a bold face LIAR. Remember, you can come back at me and others all you want but at the end of the day, you are still a liar. Simple as that, TLADINY. Until you fess up, that's what you will always be. Now go away! Go talk to your other personalities.

JSE

[Lexmark3200]

First, this is between me and you (Lexmark/TLADINY/JOHN) so quit trying to bring Vivi into it. There is a big difference between you and Vivi. You have a long history of asking the same questions over and over about problems when most of them could be resolved by an SPL meter. You also give your reviews regarding the audio on DVDs even though you are playing them on an uncalibrated system. Oh yes, and you are also a bold face LIAR. Remember, you can come back at me and others all you want but at the end of the day, you are still a liar. Simple as that, TLADINY. Until you fess up, that's what you will always be. Now go away! Go talk to your other personalities.

JSE

No, but you are quite wrong, Mr. JSE.....THIS IS about me and Vivi because YOU called him an idiot in so many other words; he admitted to being this "idiot" because he did not calibrate HIS system according to YOUR wishes (imagine that----YOU playing God...THAT is funny and laughable, completely). So I have every right to tell him to enjoy his system according to HIS liking; last time I checked, we did declare a right of independence and free speech. Ever see The Patriot? I wonder if you are smart enough to know what century that film even took place in.

Other personalities? I know of only one. Unless you can prove to MY FACE man to man otherwise, you are on COMPLETE SPECULATION, my friend. Now how much creedence does that lend? I only wish it was you instead of that bartender who got that beating in the Sopranos, because thats exactly what I would have done to you if I were in Gandolfini's shoes and you were....well.....the great JSE!

[JSE]

No, but you are quite wrong, Mr. JSE.....THIS IS about me and Vivi because YOU called him an idiot in so many other words; he admitted to being this "idiot" because he did not calibrate HIS system according to YOUR wishes (imagine that----YOU playing God...THAT is funny and laughable, completely). So I have every right to tell him to enjoy his system according to HIS liking; last time I checked, we did declare a right of independence and free speech. Ever see The Patriot? I wonder if you are smart enough to know what century that film even took place in.

Other personalities? I know of only one. Unless you can prove to MY FACE man to man otherwise, you are on COMPLETE SPECULATION, my friend. Now how much creedence does that lend? I only wish it was you instead of that bartender who got that beating in the Sopranos, because thats exactly what I would have done to you if I were in Gandolfini's shoes and you were....well.....the great JSE!

Complete speculation? I do remember proving once before that Lexmark3200 and TLADINY are one in the same. Don't you remember? Do you really want me to prove it again? Because you know, you would then be exposed to everyone again. And I can prove it! Are you sure you don't want to own up to it now?

As far as your implied physical threats go, I can tell you this. WHATEVA! LOL!

JSE