Looks like Plasma still beats LCD

[nightflier]

I'm only asking because you seem to be the only one here convinced that LCD looks better and it doesn't.

It really doesn't.

Really.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Are we talking about sets right outta da box, or are we talking calibrated units? My PQ on my LCD was raised considerably after calibration.

[pixelthis]

Are we talking about sets right outta da box, or are we talking calibrated units? My PQ on my LCD was raised considerably after calibration.

LCD haters are talking about LCD straight outta the box VS perfectly calibrated
plasmas.
The thing I like about LCD is the clear sharp picture.
The thing plasma fanboys love is the same thing they loved about CRT, they think the fuzzy
dim, phosper created picture is somehow "filmlike".
LCD also has room for growth, since there is a limit to how small you can make a phosper
dot before the light output is too dim, its pretty much at the end as far as what you can do with the format.
The only reason a "plasma" is a plasma is because a medium is needed to transmit the electrons to the phospers, we dont have the tech to build a thin vaccume tube.
In other words the plasma tube is basically a thin CRT, WHICH is why the claims
oif a thirty year life are rediculous, ever seen a 30 year old CRT that works?
Makes sense as to why plasma fanboys are former CRT fanboys tho, they are transmitting their taste to a new format that looks pretty much like the old, without the black level. At least they are consistent.
We are just going to disagree on this one tho, no way to convince the horse riders that an auto is better.
But that doesnt change the fact that plasma is destined to a place in the attic next to the eight track tape player. Life goes on, and in ten years both LCD and PLASMA
will be gone, replaced by OLED.

[BadAssJazz]

Really, it's not that serious. If plasma is facing manufacturer-induced extinction, so be it. I will adapt and move on, as will we all.

[pixelthis]

Really, it's not that serious. If plasma is facing manufacturer-induced extinction, so be it. I will adapt and move on, as will we all.

No brand faces "manufacturer " extinction.
Someone will offer anything in a free market that offers a tidy profit.
This is truly a democracy of the market, consumers vote with their dollars,
and its they that decide thumbs up or down for a product.
Which is currently whats happening with plasma.
Which is what I can't understand, if its got this "great" picture and all then why is it
getting its butt resoundly kicked in the one place it matters... market acceptance?

[GMichael]

No brand faces "manufacturer " extinction.
Someone will offer anything in a free market that offers a tidy profit.
This is truly a democracy of the market, consumers vote with their dollars,
and its they that decide thumbs up or down for a product.
Which is currently whats happening with plasma.
Which is what I can't understand, if its got this "great" picture and all then why is it
getting its butt resoundly kicked in the one place it matters... market acceptance?

Same reason that Bose outsells everyone in the audio world. Consumers don't always know what's best for them.

LCD has a lot to offer. They are much easier to work with, cheaper to make, brighter, less glare, etc. But to ignore the fact that plasma has a better picture is turning a blind eye to something you just don't want to see. It's still there even if your head is buried in the sand. Funny thing about facts. They remain true, even if you don't believe in them.

PS,

Sorry to read about the job thing. Hope you find something soon.

[frahengeo]

No brand faces "manufacturer " extinction.
Someone will offer anything in a free market that offers a tidy profit.
This is truly a democracy of the market, consumers vote with their dollars,
and its they that decide thumbs up or down for a product.
Which is currently whats happening with plasma.
Which is what I can't understand, if its got this "great" picture and all then why is it
getting its butt resoundly kicked in the one place it matters... market acceptance?

For the average consumer, 1080P is 1080P and the deepest black and contrast ratio means very little. Also, plasma TVs are perceived as being too expensive still. So why not get a more inexpensive 1080P LCD TV.
Plus my local Hi-Fi stores were pushing Pioneer Elite Kuro as the best TV to get (I have to agree), but I wasn't willing to pay the asking price at the time.
Average consumers want a decent picture for a decent price, and not the best picture at a premium price. Same for audio. The so-called ultra highend will never receive mass acceptance, but I think you know this...

Right now, I'm waiting for the LEDs to come down in price.

[pixelthis]

Same reason that Bose outsells everyone in the audio world. Consumers don't always know what's best for them.

LCD has a lot to offer. They are much easier to work with, cheaper to make, brighter, less glare, etc. But to ignore the fact that plasma has a better picture is turning a blind eye to something you just don't want to see. It's still there even if your head is buried in the sand. Funny thing about facts. They remain true, even if you don't believe in them.

PS,

Sorry to read about the job thing. Hope you find something soon.

Thanks.
Actually its the first time I have been outta work in 29 years, thanks to Knight riders
buddy Obama my corba insurance is 35% and my penny check is 20 weeks to a year.
Best Buy is coming to town, maybe they could use somebody...


(no jokes about my "lack" of knowledge, please)

[3db]

Looks like Plasma sales are on the rise;

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=58047


I ended up buying a Vizio SV470M and its a good display. Does it come close to the performance of a Plasma set? No way. If I ahd the money I would have gone for a Panasonic Plasma which was $500 more for the equivalent screen size.

Plasma just does a much better job with motion and black detail than a LCD. I just couldn't convince my betetr half that its worth the premium over the LCD.

[GMichael]

Looks like Plasma sales are on the rise;

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=58047


I ended up buying a Vizio SV470M and its a good display. Does it come close to the performance of a Plasma set? No way. If I ahd the money I would have gone for a Panasonic Plasma which was $500 more for the equivalent screen size.

Plasma just does a much better job with motion and black detail than a LCD. I just couldn't convince my betetr half that its worth the premium over the LCD.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it for many years. Best or not, LCD has a very good picture.

[3db]

I'm sure you'll enjoy it for many years. Best or not, LCD has a very good picture.

Thanks GMichael. I do enjoy it way better than the 32" non progressive scan TV its replaced in my home theater.

[GMichael]

Thanks GMichael. I do enjoy it way better than the 32" non progressive scan TV its replaced in my home theater.

I have one of those. Mine is an Apex special that I picked up for $300, 6 years ago. It does duty in the pool room now.

The whole LCD vs plasma thing seems silly to me. Both work fine. Both have advantages and disadvantages. It just makes sense to pick the one that fits your needs and not worry about which "is best." If you work in a studio and need to see everything as detailed as possible, go plasma (or CRT). If you are Joe Average and want to just flick the switch without worrying about closing the drapes, go LCD.

[Johnny B. Galt]

I think plasma sales are up because prices are down. Although I'm about five months away from my next HDTV purchase, I keep an eye on them. I'm amazed at the price erosion!
I'm not sure what I want for my basement- right now leaning towards either the Panasonic G series 50" plasma or possibly a 46" (or 47" in the case of the LG) LCD. I'm hoping that there is a real breaktrhrough with LCD (there have been- my current sets are 60HZ and 720p) but it seems like the 240hz is kind of a gimmic and the good LED is still relatively expensive.
I've seen the price on the Panny come down by over a third to $1300 which makes it very compelling- even if it sits unopened for six months! I'm just curious what the Christmas season will bring.for pirces. I'm not optimistic about the US economy and believe that retailers are going to be lucky to be operating on razor-thin margins. Not great for anybody but it may mean I end up with even more TV than I originally planned for- LCD or plasma...

[nightflier]

Anything at Costco worth considering this fall? I bought my Plasma there and feature-for-feature it was the best deal in town - no other place came close.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I think plasma sales are up because prices are down. Although I'm about five months away from my next HDTV purchase, I keep an eye on them. I'm amazed at the price erosion!
I'm not sure what I want for my basement- right now leaning towards either the Panasonic G series 50" plasma or possibly a 46" (or 47" in the case of the LG) LCD. I'm hoping that there is a real breaktrhrough with LCD (there have been- my current sets are 60HZ and 720p) but it seems like the 240hz is kind of a gimmic and the good LED is still relatively expensive.
I've seen the price on the Panny come down by over a third to $1300 which makes it very compelling- even if it sits unopened for six months! I'm just curious what the Christmas season will bring.for pirces. I'm not optimistic about the US economy and believe that retailers are going to be lucky to be operating on razor-thin margins. Not great for anybody but it may mean I end up with even more TV than I originally planned for- LCD or plasma...

240hz is by no means a gimmick. My Sony LED based XBRpro has the ability to operate at 60hz, 120hz, and 240hz. It can also take that 240hz refresh rate and utilize a quick flash LED scanning backlight to create psuedo 480hz performance. The difference between 60hz and 120hz is dramatic. Click up to 240hz, and the difference is much more subtle, but very noticeable. It really depends on how it is done. Some manufacturers fake it by using the 120hz refresh rate and a scanning backlight flashing 120 times a second. This causes a reduction in panel brightness. Only Sony and Samsung do it correctly, and you can tell by how film like and how truely smooth the picture looks.

I think you are mistake refresh rates with the processing designed to remove judder. They are not the same processes.

[Brainstorm]

I find LCD flat screens image milky and washed out of definition!

When viewing my LCD video projector I keep scratching my head why does the image look so great over my friends naff looking Samsungs 42”.

I’ve tried to improve the image on it as it had some naff digital filter turned ON that placed some noise artefact on the screen when watching Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

This was at the opening where young Indy is running across the tops of the train carriages and there are some Giraffes heads sticking out of one of the carriages. between the heads there is strange like digital noise wired?

I found the switch and turned it OFF! It would seem LCD TV sucks plain and simple first impressions is what makes it count and I personally wouldn’t touch one not even if it was given to me for free!

[Brainstorm]

How long till the Pixy bomb blows?

LOL T-minis 60 and counting! LOL

[Ed_in_Tx]

I find LCD flat screens image milky and washed out of definition!

...It would seem LCD TV sucks plain and simple first impressions is what makes it count and I personally wouldn’t touch one not even if it was given to me for free!

Obviously you have not seen one properly set up or maybe you are basing that on 5 year old technology. The LCD set I own ( a last year's Sony model) looks excellent in contrast, black levels, color and image motion. And, I am pretty particular about those things, having worked in the TV-Video consumer and professional service trades for 30 years.

[02audionoob]

The problem I've preceived (right or wrong) with LCD is an odd unrealistic quality about the picture. It lacks the nuance of colors that make up reality. CRT technology seems to illustrate shape and tone better. LCD images of a person in front of trees, for example, looks like a 2-dimensional cut-out of a person floating in front of a 2-dimensional backdrop. Anyone else see it that way?

[3db]

Anything at Costco worth considering this fall? I bought my Plasma there and feature-for-feature it was the best deal in town - no other place came close.

Thats where I bought my Vizio LCD..at Costco and it was as good or better than the other LCD sets out there which included Samsung, and Sony. They have the Panasonic Vierras plasmas out but they were beyond my budget.

I have to say that I'm very pleased with my Vizio watching upconverted standard def DVDs. Colours are very accurate and the detail is great. I do notice that balc resolution is a little weak but not distratcing so.

My next purchase will be a Blu-ray DVD player.

[nightflier]

If Costco were to resell Oppo blue-ray players, they would sell out before the free samples were all handed out, LOL.

[recoveryone]

I just ordered the Vizio VF550M from Dell for $1368. I was about to pull the trigger on a Sharp Aquos 52" D64/65 model series, but I read too many reviews about the screen issue (blocking). I hope this Vizio preformers as well if not better than the first one I purchased 3 years ago (32").

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The problem I've preceived (right or wrong) with LCD is an odd unrealistic quality about the picture. It lacks the nuance of colors that make up reality. CRT technology seems to illustrate shape and tone better. LCD images of a person in front of trees, for example, looks like a 2-dimensional cut-out of a person floating in front of a 2-dimensional backdrop. Anyone else see it that way?

I have always thought of LCD panels much the same way. But that was the old 60hz panels of which I thought were artificially sharpened, and made film look like video. My opinion changed dramatically when I got this Sony XBRpro monitor I am testing out for the studio i work for. I have always thought that Pioneers Kuro's had a picture that resembled a CRT, especially the last version produced which is the one I purchased. This Kuro's had all of the characterstics I enjoy on my high end Sony projector, and my custom 1080p CRT based RPTV. But everything has changed with this Sony. I have yet to find any weakness on this monitor. I have run this through every proprietary test my studio has produced, the Silicon Optix calibration disc, Spears and Munsil test disc, and Qdeo test disc. None of these disc seem to be able the trip this monitor up. Black levels are comparable to CRT, and the color gamut is the same, and can be made even wider than most CRT's. The problem is, it takes $22,000 to get this technology to this point, and that is a real problem. It's a good thing this monitor is not being marketed to consumers or they wouldn't sell many panels.

[Woochifer]

Anything at Costco worth considering this fall? I bought my Plasma there and feature-for-feature it was the best deal in town - no other place came close.

Coming in a bit late to the party, but the current Panny coupon special at Costco is quite a doozy. The entry level 1080p 54" plasma is going for $1,200 ($300 off). Free shipping if ordered online.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...se=&lang=en-US

Last month, they had a coupon deal on the Panny 1080p 50" for $1,000 (basically an improved version of my TV, which cost $1,400 last year). I also saw that Amazon was offering up the entry level 42" 768p model for less than $600.

Concurrently, they've also expanded their higher line offerings. The V10 series is currently CNET's highest rated HDTV.

[Woochifer]

I have always thought of LCD panels much the same way. But that was the old 60hz panels of which I thought were artificially sharpened, and made film look like video.

I think that the 120 Hz and 240 Hz models with the motion interpolation switched on look even worse. They smooth out the motion, but make everything look like a soap opera set.

My opinion changed dramatically when I got this Sony XBRpro monitor I am testing out for the studio i work for. I have always thought that Pioneers Kuro's had a picture that resembled a CRT, especially the last version produced which is the one I purchased. This Kuro's had all of the characterstics I enjoy on my high end Sony projector, and my custom 1080p CRT based RPTV. But everything has changed with this Sony. I have yet to find any weakness on this monitor. I have run this through every proprietary test my studio has produced, the Silicon Optix calibration disc, Spears and Munsil test disc, and Qdeo test disc. None of these disc seem to be able the trip this monitor up. Black levels are comparable to CRT, and the color gamut is the same, and can be made even wider than most CRT's. The problem is, it takes $22,000 to get this technology to this point, and that is a real problem. It's a good thing this monitor is not being marketed to consumers or they wouldn't sell many panels.

Good to see that Sony has produced a LCD monitor that can finally match up with the best that other display techs offer up. But, LCDs seem to all have a major tradeoff of some kind, and in this case it's the price. Isn't $22k like double what those studio-grade Kuros cost? I'd also be curious as to whether the off-axis viewing has improved. No matter how much LCDs have improved on other fronts, this is the issue that has remained constant. And it seems that the introduction of LED backlighting made the viewing angle even narrower.