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  1. #1
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    Question Harman Kardon DVD31 vs. Marantz DV4500

    I am in the market for the best component video DVD player under $300 because I have a Mitsubishi WS 55859 projection monitor without HDMI/DVI inputs. Have you guys seen any of these in action and if you had to pick one over the other which one? I have had bad experiences with DVD players so the 3 year warranty on the Marantz is very appealing.

  2. #2
    AR "Wisdom of Yoda"Member LEAFS264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by negrobello
    I am in the market for the best component video DVD player under $300 because I have a Mitsubishi WS 55859 projection monitor without HDMI/DVI inputs. Have you guys seen any of these in action and if you had to pick one over the other which one? I have had bad experiences with DVD players so the 3 year warranty on the Marantz is very appealing.

    I think Hershon has the HK dvd31, and he has nothing but good things to say about it. I read a few good things about the HK , but nothing about the Mits.

    Jay.
    Last edited by LEAFS264; 04-21-2005 at 12:24 PM.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, I totally recommend the DVD31

    I bought the HK DVD 31 for about $250 including shipping brand new as a "But It Now" option on Ebay. It lists for about $350 retail. To me the sound on it is fantastic for playing CD's- I recommend that you use a fiber optic cable (as opposed to analogue cables) as the sound is better this way for myself personally when connected to a Denon 3801 receiver, DVD-A's (through 6 composite cables) and DVD's (again I connect my DVD picture by component cables) and the DVD picture is excellent as well. It also looks good. I'd definately recommend it. If you do get it, make sure you set up "The DVD settings". I have it on "Adjust on" which means the DVD player is in charge not the receiver.


    Quote Originally Posted by LEAFS264
    I think Hershon has the HK dvd31, and he has nothing but good things to say about it. I read a few good things HK , but nothing about the Mits.

    Jay.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    I bought the HK DVD 31 for about $250 including shipping brand new as a "But It Now" option on Ebay. It lists for about $350 retail. To me the sound on it is fantastic for playing CD's- I recommend that you use a fiber optic cable (as opposed to analogue cables) as the sound is better this way for myself personally when connected to a Denon 3801 receiver, DVD-A's (through 6 composite cables) and DVD's (again I connect my DVD picture by component cables) and the DVD picture is excellent as well. It also looks good. I'd definately recommend it. If you do get it, make sure you set up "The DVD settings". I have it on "Adjust on" which means the DVD player is in charge not the receiver.
    Suggesting that the digital output sounds better than the analog output means that the HK player actually does NOT sound good, as the digital output bypasses all the audio stages in the HK. I wouldn't recommend it if that's true.

    I know for a fact the Marantz sounds phenomenal.

  5. #5
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    Again, I repeat like a broken record, if a System sounds better to your ears though technically it shouldn't, trust your ears and go with that system. In the case of the Marantz versus HK 31 DVD player, if the CD sound when HK is played digitally via a fiber optic cable
    sounds better than the Marantz sound when played digitally or by analogue, get the HK. If either the Marantz digital or analogue sound sounds better than the HK digital sound get the Marantz.



    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Suggesting that the digital output sounds better than the analog output means that the HK player actually does NOT sound good, as the digital output bypasses all the audio stages in the HK. I wouldn't recommend it if that's true.

    I know for a fact the Marantz sounds phenomenal.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Dude, how many times does this have to be explained to you?

    THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN SOUND BETWEEN TWO PLAYERS WHEN USING THE DIGITAL OUTPUT.

    The digital cable bypass ALL audio stages in the player and leaves all decoding and processing to the receiver. A raw digital signal is a raw digital signal. It's either on or off.

    Do we need to beat this into your head??

  7. #7
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    Dude Nothing Personal You Wrong!

    I ought to know what my ears tell me. Another person here, who I don't wish to draw into this continuous argument, heard the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Dude, how many times does this have to be explained to you?

    THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN SOUND BETWEEN TWO PLAYERS WHEN USING THE DIGITAL OUTPUT.

    The digital cable bypass ALL audio stages in the player and leaves all decoding and processing to the receiver. A raw digital signal is a raw digital signal. It's either on or off.

    Do we need to beat this into your head??

  8. #8
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    I think you just wanted to hear a difference, or you had some settings changed, or you didn't have it hooked up right.

    That's like saying a red Dodge Viper drives better than a yellow Dodge Viper. That could happen, but it has nothing to do with the color.

    Again, this is NOT my opinion, this is a fact. What do we have to do to make you understand how this works??

  9. #9
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    Yeah 2 people both imagined the same thing!

    First of all 2 people don't imagine the same thing at the same time. IE, just because you don't like the idea of "Monster Cable" doesn't mean that sometimes it isn't actually better than an ordinary cable. Again for the one billion trillionth time, if all sounds are the same from Optical cable, "Optical Cable" companys would say that for $5 you can make a $10 CD/DVD player sound/look the same as a $5000 CD/DVD player and a $10 DVD player would emphasis the same. 95% of the people who buy DVD players would buy the cheapest possible DVD/CD player over any other brand no matter how many "Roll Royce" features the more expensive system has as you seem to imply, if the sound/picture was equal by optic cable. I have absolutely no vested interest in prefering the sound of optic cable over analogue. Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, and this is my last comment on this here, as there obviously is no way either of us is going to change our opinions.




    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I think you just wanted to hear a difference, or you had some settings changed, or you didn't have it hooked up right.

    That's like saying a red Dodge Viper drives better than a yellow Dodge Viper. That could happen, but it has nothing to do with the color.

    Again, this is NOT my opinion, this is a fact. What do we have to do to make you understand how this works??

  10. #10
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I think you just wanted to hear a difference, or you had some settings changed, or you didn't have it hooked up right.

    That's like saying a red Dodge Viper drives better than a yellow Dodge Viper. That could happen, but it has nothing to do with the color.

    Again, this is NOT my opinion, this is a fact. What do we have to do to make you understand how this works??
    I understand what everybody is saying but i'll trust what i hear most the time. I know that if i heard something that sounded good but shouldnt, well if it sounds good,it must be. Oh,we all know that red is faster,come on.
    Look & Listen

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Suggesting that the digital output sounds better than the analog output means that the HK player actually does NOT sound good, as the digital output bypasses all the audio stages in the HK.
    Far be it from me to add anything to the fray (audio dunce that I am), but, if I'm not mistaken Hershon, what N. Absentia is saying is that the digital signal, as it passes through the HK DVD31, is not acted upon by the DVD31's audio stages. That is the DVD31 is not doing anything to the signal and therefor cannot be given any credit for the resulting sound. I guess it's kinda like when a television video signal passes through a VHS player that is not turned on. If you are getting a good picture, you can't credit the VHS player; it's not doing anything.

    That is not the same thing as saying the DVD31 is not a good DVD player. Right?

  12. #12
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    No I understand that and I actually like NAsentia who's helped me alot in the past particularly telling me about DVDShrink. What I'm trying to say without even going into the Harmon Kardon, is, if according to alot of the people on this board, I'll acknowledge I'm in the minority, any CD/DVD will sound the same on if played on a $5 DVD player & a $10,000 DVD player if connected to a receiver by fiber optic cable, I still say nonscence.
    If that were true, most people would buy the cheapest no name brand around.


    Quote Originally Posted by jasmit
    Far be it from me to add anything to the fray (audio dunce that I am), but, if I'm not mistaken Hershon, what N. Absentia is saying is that the digital signal, as it passes through the HK DVD31, is not acted upon by the DVD31's audio stages. That is the DVD31 is not doing anything to the signal and therefor cannot be given any credit for the resulting sound. I guess it's kinda like when a television video signal passes through a VHS player that is not turned on. If you are getting a good picture, you can't credit the VHS player; it's not doing anything.

    That is not the same thing as saying the DVD31 is not a good DVD player. Right?

  13. #13
    AR "Wisdom of Yoda"Member LEAFS264's Avatar
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    Yes, but Hershon most DVD players DO sound the same. People,like me, buy the expensive DVD players for the Picture display and Connectivity...ie HDMI and DVI that the 5.00 players just don't offer. Most DVD players use a 10 bit video. Some use 12 bit. Mine is a 14 bit. I think you'll find most people will say sound is good in any player reguardless of price. We have been down this road and back again......with no end in sight. The jisst of it is.....your happy, so it doesn't matter what anyone else says about the sound you hear,right!!

    Jay

  14. #14
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    So all the players are using the same lasers? If not,wouldnt that count for some sudio difference?
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  15. #15
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    In regards to the picture quality, I'll be the first to say, I personally don't notice that much difference in the pictures with most DVD players but will be the first to acknowledge, maybe there are visual differences that others can notice. I will say again, that for someone who is going to use their DVD player also as their CD player, sound quality would be a factor and then again, if there was no noticeable difference in the DVD player between a cheap and an expensive one, people would automatically choose the cheaper one. Again, I may be the only person on this board who prefers digital sound from a digital recording. All I know when it came for me to decide what DVD player I was going to buy the reviews for my Harmon Kardon all raved about the sound and I don't think all of these reviewers listened to it through analogue cables instead of fiber optic cables. But again, to each his or her own.
    Last edited by hershon; 04-24-2005 at 08:24 AM.

  16. #16
    AR "Wisdom of Yoda"Member LEAFS264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    So all the players are using the same lasers? If not,wouldnt that count for some sudio difference?
    Yes, they all use the same lasers.

  17. #17
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Thats interesting. Hell,i'm going with the $5 DVD player from now on as i dont know why anyone would spend more on one.
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  18. #18
    AR "Wisdom of Yoda"Member LEAFS264's Avatar
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    The reason you would buy a more $$$$$ expensive one is because you get better transports and the internals are much better. The 99.00 walmart jobs are not the most trusted quallity wise if you know what I mean. But I guess if you have a to buy a 100.00 one every year for five years and you buy a 500.00 one that lasts five years it's the same.


    Jay

  19. #19
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    I have a $59 Panasonic player and a $550 Marantz player. Guess what? They both sound IDTENTICAL when using the digital output.

    So why the $550 Marantz? First of all the more expensive player gets me SACD and DVD-A capability. Second of all, when using the ANALOG outputs the Marantz makes that $59 Panny sound like the cheap player it is. The Marantz sounds phenomenal, which then carries back over to the SACD & DVD-A capability, since it's analog.

    I also got a smoother transport, perfect picture quality, an isolated chassis, better power supply, better connectors, better power cord (!), and a better user interface.

    That's why I didn't buy a "$5 player".

  20. #20
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Well if a dvd player is better using its analogs then the reciever must be a pile of crap? So its a good reciever and a ok DVD player or the other way around? How much better really is a $2000 DVD player over something like a $299 Yamaha C750? Doesnt sound like its nowhere near $1700 bucks worth.
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    How do You Really Know Though?

    I'm not saying your wrong but if you are not playing the $59 DVD player and the Marantz side by side for comparison, how do you know the sound of the Marantz is superior? If a branch falls in an empty forest, does it really make a sound?



    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I have a $59 Panasonic player and a $550 Marantz player. Guess what? They both sound IDTENTICAL when using the digital output.

    So why the $550 Marantz? First of all the more expensive player gets me SACD and DVD-A capability. Second of all, when using the ANALOG outputs the Marantz makes that $59 Panny sound like the cheap player it is. The Marantz sounds phenomenal, which then carries back over to the SACD & DVD-A capability, since it's analog.

    I also got a smoother transport, perfect picture quality, an isolated chassis, better power supply, better connectors, better power cord (!), and a better user interface.

    That's why I didn't buy a "$5 player".

  22. #22
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    The Marantz and the Panny are about .5" away from each other. Each has it's own input so they can be A/B'd with the push of a button. Both are connected via both analog & digital so the push of another button switches between those. I'd say that's about as good as A/B gets!

    Trust me, after spending $550 for the Marantz I A/B'd it with every player I could get my hands on before my 45 day trial was up

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    I stand corrected I'm not Worthy

    I totally appologize here. That's what you get if you have a fifth grade reading level and an Ivy League MBA. I should have read your post better. I stand corrected. I still know you're wrong about DVD players all sounding the same with optic cable, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    The Marantz and the Panny are about .5" away from each other. Each has it's own input so they can be A/B'd with the push of a button. Both are connected via both analog & digital so the push of another button switches between those. I'd say that's about as good as A/B gets!

    Trust me, after spending $550 for the Marantz I A/B'd it with every player I could get my hands on before my 45 day trial was up
    Last edited by hershon; 04-24-2005 at 09:35 PM.

  24. #24
    AR Member JeffKnob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hershon
    I totally appologize here. That's what you get if you have a fifth grade reading level and an Ivy League MBA. I should have read your post better. I stand corrected. I still know you're wrong about DVD players all sounding the same with optic cable, though.
    I really wish you could understand how a digital connection worked, then you would realize that what you are saying is impossible. What you are basically saying to people on this board is like telling a physics professor that gravity doesn't exist. I am not denying that you heard a difference but there had to be a difference in the way it was connected. If your JVC was one of the units involved in this comparison there is no telling how JVC decided to connect the DVD unit to the receiver part internally. Maybe you should make a poll on here to see how many people agree with you. If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you.

  25. #25
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    BS- I was There & You weren't

    "If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."

    Shove it. I'm tired of people like you telling me what I did or didn't hear (or should or shouldn't hear) when you weren't there and I find your attitude totally presumptuous. First of all and this is not meant as a put down of anyone here, your lavish praise of people implying that I am a peon who should take what anyone says here as gospel & bow down to their greatness is so out in left field you're looking at right. While I get good advice from people here, there is also plenty of wrong advice given by your so called "people with experience", too on a variety of subjects. Yes, I've given wrong advice as well. I feel like Christopher Columbus telling you the world is not flat and you refuse to even consider this because you're afraid, poor baby, of going against what your peers say. I repeat for the millionth time, if sound coming from a $5 DVD/CD player is the same as sound coming from a $10,000 player when connected by fiber optic cable, 95% of the people in the world who buy CD/DVD players to play CD's, would buy the $5 player. They do not, because your scientific theory which you think is written in gold, does not hold water but you're not big enough a man to admit this. A somewhat similar analogy is if you were a proficient guitar player who played the notes of a song note by note, of say, "Smoke on the Water" and Ritchie Blackmore (the Deep Purple guitarist who originally played this) was in the next room and played the same exact notes on the same guitar in the same style, a lot of people (who lets say were blindfolded) would still notice a difference & identify Ritchie Blackmore from you. The X's and 0's may still scientifically be the same but there still would be differences. Anyway, I'm not addressing your right to same I'm wrong but you're wording which I think is just a feeble attempt to try to gain favor with people on here at my expense.
    Last edited by hershon; 04-25-2005 at 11:48 AM.

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