Harman Kardon DVD31 vs. Marantz DV4500

[LEAFS264]

Hershon, People all know that dvd players all sound the same from the Digital connection. Where the difference really is, is in the analog output of the unit. That together with the Better picture quallity and better connectivity and better transports and better power systems and better shielding etc...... Is the Big difference between the 5.00 and 1000.00 players. The Digital output has nothing to do with the price.


Jay

[JeffKnob]

"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."

Shove it. I'm tired of people like you telling me what I did or didn't hear (or should or shouldn't hear) when you weren't there and I find your attitude totally presumptuous. First of all and this is not meant as a put down of anyone here, your lavish praise of people implying that I am a peon who should take what anyone says here as gospel & bow down to their greatness is so out in left field you're looking at right. While I get good advice from people here, there is also plenty of wrong advice give by your so called "people with experience", too on a variety of subjects. Yes, I've given wrong advice as well. I feel like Christopher Columbus telling you the world is not flat and you refuse to even consider this because you're afraid, poor baby, of going against what your peers say. I repeat for the millionth time, if sound coming from a $5 DVD/CD player is the same as sound coming from a $10,000 player when connected by fiber optic cable, 95% of the people in the world who buy CD/DVD players to play CD's, would buy the $5 player. They do not, because your scientific theory which you think is written in gold, does not hold water but you're not big enough a man to admit this. A somewhat similar analogy is if you were a proficient guitar player who played the notes of a song note by note, of say, "Smoke on the Water" and Ritchie Blackmore (the Deep Purple guitarist who originally played this) was in the next room and played the same exact notes on the same guitar in the same style, a lot of people (who lets say were blindfolded) would still notice a difference & identify Ritchie Blackmore from you. The X's and 0's may still scientifically be the same but there still would be differences. Anyway, I'm not addressing your right to same I'm wrong but you're wording which I think is just a feeble attempt to try to gain favor with people on here.

Please excuse me for trying to figure out what isn't right with the situation. I didn't say that you didn't hear a difference. I said that something must not have right for you to have heard a difference. I feel it is something in that JVC unit that caused the difference. If you are going to flame me for trying to help then so be it. I will think twice about trying to ever respond to any of your posts and I am sure other people have already done so.

[MCF]

Again!!

[LEAFS264]

Lets try and keep it friendly this time.......

[JeffKnob]

I have tried to keep it friendly and have said what I wanted to say.

[hershon]

As long as you or anyone keeps it civil, I've got no problems with anyone saying I'm wrong/they're right etc. What I have a problem with, which is why I got ticked off at you before & JeffKnob, is being referred to as an "idiot" and other condescending words. Yes I admit I responded to you before in kind. I don't mind you telling me I'm wrong etc. as long as its done in a civil non condescending manner.

Hershon, People all know that dvd players all sound the same from the Digital connection. Where the difference really is, is in the analog output of the unit. That together with the Better picture quallity and better connectivity and better transports and better power systems and better shielding etc...... Is the Big difference between the 5.00 and 1000.00 players. The Digital output has nothing to do with the price.


Jay

[hershon]

"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."- JeffKnob Post #24

Sorry I find these words/tone offensive. These are your exact words. So I'm the bad guy for responding that I don't appreciate your language/tone.

As far as I know, I've never responded angrily or with "flames" to anyone who's taken exception to anything I've said as long as they didn't say "I don't know what I'm talking about", "I didn't hear what I heard", etc. Again, I don't have a problem with being told I'm wrong, maybe I am, but it doesn't have to be made into an attack on me.

[JeffKnob]

As far as I know, I've never responded angrily or with "flames" to anyone who's taken exception to anything I've said as long as they didn't say "I don't know what I'm talking about", "I didn't hear what I heard", etc. Again, I don't have a problem with being told I'm wrong, maybe I am, but it doesn't have to be made into an attack on me.

First off, "Shove it" would be taken as an angry response. Second I have told you on a few occasions that I believe you that you heard what you heard. Please don't play innocent.

[LEAFS264]

As long as you or anyone keeps it civil, I've got no problems with anyone saying I'm wrong/they're right etc. What I have a problem with, which is why I got ticked off at you before & JeffKnob, is being referred to as an "idiot" and other condescending words. Yes I admit I responded to you before in kind. I don't mind you telling me I'm wrong etc. as long as its done in a civil non condescending manner.

Hershon, I don't think your WRONG. But i do think your right for the wrong reason. I really do think you heard a difference,but not because of the dvd player's digital output.
It just is not possible......so we are trying to help you find the cause of the sound difference. Now that we have ruled out the Digital output....what's next?


Jay

[hershon]

There's a difference between being the instigator and the person being provoked. In my case, I said "shove it" in regards to the attacking letter, no appologies here. Again, the following wording you posted to me I consider insulting & demeaning and these were your words not mine:
"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."

[shokhead]

Dont forget,hershon isnt the only one there to hear a difference.

[JeffKnob]

I was just simply making a point that you don't seem to want to listen to what people are saying when they are trying to help you. That is what is frustrating people. It wasn't meant to insult you. I am sorry if I came across that way. Leaf and I are both trying to help you understand the facts and we have both said that we believe you as well.

[JeffKnob]

Dont forget,hershon isnt the only one there to hear a difference.

It has been established a while ago that I believe Hershon.

[shokhead]

Lets put this to rest,hershon and a friend heard a difference but as a general rule,there is almost never going to be any difference between DVD audio using the dig out. We can agree on that,right? This has gotten way far from the org question which should be they are both good.

[JeffKnob]

Lets put this to rest,hershon and a friend heard a difference but as a general rule,there is almost never going to be any difference between DVD audio using the dig out. We can agree on that,right? This has gotten way far from the org question which should be they are both good.

Since that is what I have been saying the whole time, I have no problem with that.

[N. Abstentia]

[QUOTE=hershon]"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."- JeffKnob Post #24

Sorry I find these words/tone offensive. [QUOTE]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but not just 3 weeks ago wasn't your entire home theater experience based on a $399 JVC receiver/amp/dvd player/toaster/alarm clock/juicer all-in-one unit? All he's saying is basically look..there are people here with years and years of experience trying to explain how something basic works and you respond with "that's impossible, it never worked that way and never can".

That's why nobody is helping you any more.

And comparing two different guitarists to two digital signals is asanine. You just can't get any more non-digital than playing a guitar through a tube amp. Digital has two states..on or off. It either gets to the other end of the cable or it doesn't. There is NO in between. There is NO halfway. You can totally alter the sound of a guitar just by turning the volume knob down 1/4 turn. Of course two different guitar players are going to sound different..there are too many variables. That's why I can't sound anything like Eric Clapton just because I have a Strat with a Soldano amp. I'm not Eric Clapton.

However, I CAN make a $100 DVD player sound identical to a $1000 DVD player by using only the digital output. This is because they both pass the same digital signal from the DVD to the processor.

[hershon]

You sound like George Bush in your post, justifying Iraq saying we're there for 9/11 when that country had nothing to do with 9/11. You know perfectly well that my analogy of Ritchie Blackmore playing guitar and anyone playing the same notes was based on everything else being identical except the performer and not the nonscence you've added.

In regards to my earlier comments of my $399 (actually it was $450) JVC do everything system, I'll stand by my remarks- it sounded better than any high range system I heard at any store (probably due to how poorly the stores had their system set up) & it sounded better than any system I had brought home to try- a Marantz 5400 CD player, an Onkyo CD player, a Denon DVD player, a Denon 2105 Receiver, until I tried my Denon 3801 receiver and Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player.

[N. Abstentia]

Have you ever heard the saying "he knows just enough to be dangerous"?

It applies here.

[cjtalbot]

First off I'm just going to state that it is MY belief that all digital transports are NOT created equal, and hence you will get significant variences from digital output to digital output (be that Optical or Coaxial) and from device to device.

To state otherwise assumes that all manufactures use the same components for:

digital output circuitry
laser output strength and integrity (for Toslink)
Phase lock circuitry
digital signal conditioning
digital jitter reduction (BIG ONE)
digitial signal boosting
AC filter applications
Laser read mechs (this being the element most at parity with others)
Signal isolation circuitry

ALL of these aspects must be addressed well before the digital path signal is converted to analog (be that at the device or receiver side). Hence you have a TON of items that can vary from device to device that all effect how a digital path is both read and output..again...well before it hits any kind of DAC.

Yes, digital is always going to be "O"s and "1"s with any device, but how those data streams are first read, processed, conditioned and than output can be night and day.

Thoughts?

[negrobello]

HK over Marantz?

[hershon]

HK over Marantz?

Yeah if HK Sounds better Also depends on your budget You can get HK new for $250 What can you get Marantz for? I bought and returned a Marantz 5400 CD player because it sucked. I can't talk about other Marantz models which i haven't heard.

[paul_pci]

HK over Marantz?

The gist of the ongoing debate for your concern is this: if you plan to hook up your DVD player solely through a digital connection and you are not anal about video quality and you are budget conscious, then go with the cheaper (probably HK) player. If, on the other hand, you are anal about video quality and have a flexible budget, then you want to get an idea of which player will deliver the best PQ and go with that.

[shokhead]

The gist of the ongoing debate for your concern is this: if you plan to hook up your DVD player solely through a digital connection and you are not anal about video quality and you are budget conscious, then go with the cheaper (probably HK) player. If, on the other hand, you are anal about video quality and have a flexible budget, then you want to get an idea of which player will deliver the best PQ and go with that.

I love it when you talk like that.

[jimmyb]

I use my system mostly for watching movies and whenever possible buy dvd's that are DTS. Which would give higher quality, analog or digital for DTS dvd's? I normally run digital and feel it gives excellant sound but this thread has raised some questions on a subject that I was not even aware of. Also, does anyone have an opinion on dvd formats, DTS, THX, etc..

[anamorphic96]

I use my system mostly for watching movies and whenever possible buy dvd's that are DTS. Which would give higher quality, analog or digital for DTS dvd's? I normally run digital and feel it gives excellant sound but this thread has raised some questions on a subject that I was not even aware of. Also, does anyone have an opinion on dvd formats, DTS, THX, etc..

Well to keep it simple you have to use a digital connection for Dolby Digital or DTS. There is no way around this.

The 6ch analog outputs are for SACD or DVD-A.

The other basic left and right analog outputs are for stereo use or hooking the unit up to a basic TV.

If you use the digital out connection all processing happens in the receiver. You have bypassed everything in the DVD player.