Harman Kardon DVD31 vs. Marantz DV4500

[hershon]

I totally appologize here. That's what you get if you have a fifth grade reading level and an Ivy League MBA. I should have read your post better. I stand corrected. I still know you're wrong about DVD players all sounding the same with optic cable, though.

The Marantz and the Panny are about .5" away from each other. Each has it's own input so they can be A/B'd with the push of a button. Both are connected via both analog & digital so the push of another button switches between those. I'd say that's about as good as A/B gets!

Trust me, after spending $550 for the Marantz I A/B'd it with every player I could get my hands on before my 45 day trial was up

[JeffKnob]

I totally appologize here. That's what you get if you have a fifth grade reading level and an Ivy League MBA. I should have read your post better. I stand corrected. I still know you're wrong about DVD players all sounding the same with optic cable, though.

I really wish you could understand how a digital connection worked, then you would realize that what you are saying is impossible. What you are basically saying to people on this board is like telling a physics professor that gravity doesn't exist. I am not denying that you heard a difference but there had to be a difference in the way it was connected. If your JVC was one of the units involved in this comparison there is no telling how JVC decided to connect the DVD unit to the receiver part internally. Maybe you should make a poll on here to see how many people agree with you. If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you.

[hershon]

"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."

Shove it. I'm tired of people like you telling me what I did or didn't hear (or should or shouldn't hear) when you weren't there and I find your attitude totally presumptuous. First of all and this is not meant as a put down of anyone here, your lavish praise of people implying that I am a peon who should take what anyone says here as gospel & bow down to their greatness is so out in left field you're looking at right. While I get good advice from people here, there is also plenty of wrong advice given by your so called "people with experience", too on a variety of subjects. Yes, I've given wrong advice as well. I feel like Christopher Columbus telling you the world is not flat and you refuse to even consider this because you're afraid, poor baby, of going against what your peers say. I repeat for the millionth time, if sound coming from a $5 DVD/CD player is the same as sound coming from a $10,000 player when connected by fiber optic cable, 95% of the people in the world who buy CD/DVD players to play CD's, would buy the $5 player. They do not, because your scientific theory which you think is written in gold, does not hold water but you're not big enough a man to admit this. A somewhat similar analogy is if you were a proficient guitar player who played the notes of a song note by note, of say, "Smoke on the Water" and Ritchie Blackmore (the Deep Purple guitarist who originally played this) was in the next room and played the same exact notes on the same guitar in the same style, a lot of people (who lets say were blindfolded) would still notice a difference & identify Ritchie Blackmore from you. The X's and 0's may still scientifically be the same but there still would be differences. Anyway, I'm not addressing your right to same I'm wrong but you're wording which I think is just a feeble attempt to try to gain favor with people on here at my expense.

[LEAFS264]

Hershon, People all know that dvd players all sound the same from the Digital connection. Where the difference really is, is in the analog output of the unit. That together with the Better picture quallity and better connectivity and better transports and better power systems and better shielding etc...... Is the Big difference between the 5.00 and 1000.00 players. The Digital output has nothing to do with the price.


Jay

[hershon]

As long as you or anyone keeps it civil, I've got no problems with anyone saying I'm wrong/they're right etc. What I have a problem with, which is why I got ticked off at you before & JeffKnob, is being referred to as an "idiot" and other condescending words. Yes I admit I responded to you before in kind. I don't mind you telling me I'm wrong etc. as long as its done in a civil non condescending manner.

Hershon, People all know that dvd players all sound the same from the Digital connection. Where the difference really is, is in the analog output of the unit. That together with the Better picture quallity and better connectivity and better transports and better power systems and better shielding etc...... Is the Big difference between the 5.00 and 1000.00 players. The Digital output has nothing to do with the price.


Jay

[LEAFS264]

As long as you or anyone keeps it civil, I've got no problems with anyone saying I'm wrong/they're right etc. What I have a problem with, which is why I got ticked off at you before & JeffKnob, is being referred to as an "idiot" and other condescending words. Yes I admit I responded to you before in kind. I don't mind you telling me I'm wrong etc. as long as its done in a civil non condescending manner.

Hershon, I don't think your WRONG. But i do think your right for the wrong reason. I really do think you heard a difference,but not because of the dvd player's digital output.
It just is not possible......so we are trying to help you find the cause of the sound difference. Now that we have ruled out the Digital output....what's next?


Jay

[JeffKnob]

"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."

Shove it. I'm tired of people like you telling me what I did or didn't hear (or should or shouldn't hear) when you weren't there and I find your attitude totally presumptuous. First of all and this is not meant as a put down of anyone here, your lavish praise of people implying that I am a peon who should take what anyone says here as gospel & bow down to their greatness is so out in left field you're looking at right. While I get good advice from people here, there is also plenty of wrong advice give by your so called "people with experience", too on a variety of subjects. Yes, I've given wrong advice as well. I feel like Christopher Columbus telling you the world is not flat and you refuse to even consider this because you're afraid, poor baby, of going against what your peers say. I repeat for the millionth time, if sound coming from a $5 DVD/CD player is the same as sound coming from a $10,000 player when connected by fiber optic cable, 95% of the people in the world who buy CD/DVD players to play CD's, would buy the $5 player. They do not, because your scientific theory which you think is written in gold, does not hold water but you're not big enough a man to admit this. A somewhat similar analogy is if you were a proficient guitar player who played the notes of a song note by note, of say, "Smoke on the Water" and Ritchie Blackmore (the Deep Purple guitarist who originally played this) was in the next room and played the same exact notes on the same guitar in the same style, a lot of people (who lets say were blindfolded) would still notice a difference & identify Ritchie Blackmore from you. The X's and 0's may still scientifically be the same but there still would be differences. Anyway, I'm not addressing your right to same I'm wrong but you're wording which I think is just a feeble attempt to try to gain favor with people on here.

Please excuse me for trying to figure out what isn't right with the situation. I didn't say that you didn't hear a difference. I said that something must not have right for you to have heard a difference. I feel it is something in that JVC unit that caused the difference. If you are going to flame me for trying to help then so be it. I will think twice about trying to ever respond to any of your posts and I am sure other people have already done so.

[hershon]

"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."- JeffKnob Post #24

Sorry I find these words/tone offensive. These are your exact words. So I'm the bad guy for responding that I don't appreciate your language/tone.

As far as I know, I've never responded angrily or with "flames" to anyone who's taken exception to anything I've said as long as they didn't say "I don't know what I'm talking about", "I didn't hear what I heard", etc. Again, I don't have a problem with being told I'm wrong, maybe I am, but it doesn't have to be made into an attack on me.

[JeffKnob]

As far as I know, I've never responded angrily or with "flames" to anyone who's taken exception to anything I've said as long as they didn't say "I don't know what I'm talking about", "I didn't hear what I heard", etc. Again, I don't have a problem with being told I'm wrong, maybe I am, but it doesn't have to be made into an attack on me.

First off, "Shove it" would be taken as an angry response. Second I have told you on a few occasions that I believe you that you heard what you heard. Please don't play innocent.

[hershon]

There's a difference between being the instigator and the person being provoked. In my case, I said "shove it" in regards to the attacking letter, no appologies here. Again, the following wording you posted to me I consider insulting & demeaning and these were your words not mine:
"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."

[N. Abstentia]

[QUOTE=hershon]"If you find that a lot of people disagree with you then maybe you could get off your high horse and listen to these people that have a lot more experience than you."- JeffKnob Post #24

Sorry I find these words/tone offensive. [QUOTE]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but not just 3 weeks ago wasn't your entire home theater experience based on a $399 JVC receiver/amp/dvd player/toaster/alarm clock/juicer all-in-one unit? All he's saying is basically look..there are people here with years and years of experience trying to explain how something basic works and you respond with "that's impossible, it never worked that way and never can".

That's why nobody is helping you any more.

And comparing two different guitarists to two digital signals is asanine. You just can't get any more non-digital than playing a guitar through a tube amp. Digital has two states..on or off. It either gets to the other end of the cable or it doesn't. There is NO in between. There is NO halfway. You can totally alter the sound of a guitar just by turning the volume knob down 1/4 turn. Of course two different guitar players are going to sound different..there are too many variables. That's why I can't sound anything like Eric Clapton just because I have a Strat with a Soldano amp. I'm not Eric Clapton.

However, I CAN make a $100 DVD player sound identical to a $1000 DVD player by using only the digital output. This is because they both pass the same digital signal from the DVD to the processor.

[hershon]

You sound like George Bush in your post, justifying Iraq saying we're there for 9/11 when that country had nothing to do with 9/11. You know perfectly well that my analogy of Ritchie Blackmore playing guitar and anyone playing the same notes was based on everything else being identical except the performer and not the nonscence you've added.

In regards to my earlier comments of my $399 (actually it was $450) JVC do everything system, I'll stand by my remarks- it sounded better than any high range system I heard at any store (probably due to how poorly the stores had their system set up) & it sounded better than any system I had brought home to try- a Marantz 5400 CD player, an Onkyo CD player, a Denon DVD player, a Denon 2105 Receiver, until I tried my Denon 3801 receiver and Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player.

[MCF]

Again!!

[LEAFS264]

Lets try and keep it friendly this time.......

[JeffKnob]

I have tried to keep it friendly and have said what I wanted to say.

[J*E*Cole]

Well to get back to the question, I have the HK DVD22 connected to an HK rec. with Monster Lite Speed 200 fiber optic cable. The DVD22 has the same DACs and all as the 31 and I can only say that it looks and sounds terrific. There is noticable improvement over my old dvd player in both picture and sound, and I sometimes play audio cds through it just because it sounds so good. Can't speak for the Marantz, but the HK is worth every penny.

[hershon]

Well according to alot of people here, not me obviously, they claim that if you connected your previous DVD player by Optic Cable there would be no difference in sound to your current Optic connection. I love my HK 31. Out of curiosity what is the difference in price and features between the 31 and the 22? I basically bought the 31 because every single review I read on Amazon.com,. CNET (I think) and other online sites all praised the 31's sound.

[J*E*Cole]

Well according to alot of people here, not me obviously, they claim that if you connected your previous DVD player by Optic Cable there would be no difference in sound to your current Optic connection. I love my HK 31. Out of curiosity what is the difference in price and features between the 31 and the 22? I basically bought the 31 because every single review I read on Amazon.com,. CNET (I think) and other online sites all praised the 31's sound.

I think the 31 can resolve DVD-A and my 22 cannot, but I have to say, I did have my old DVD player (hate to say it but it was an RCA) connected fiber optically too, but the HK STILL blows it away, I don't want to say anyone's a liar, but the HK sure does sound alot better. BTW, I paid $199 at CC mainly because I was completely satisfied with my HK receiver (which BTW would have the same DACs as their DVD players), and because ALL the reviews on their site were also very positive.

[hershon]

It looks like the only difference betweehn the HK 22 & 31 is DVD-A. If you're not planning to use DVD-A you made a better choice (add on another $100 plus for 6 internect cables for DVD-A). I hardly have any DVD-A & rarely play it but I just wanted to have the option to play them. As I said, the sound on my HK DVD player connected by optic cable blows away any CD or DVD player I've heard & I'm very, very, happy with it.

[anamorphic96]

Keep in mind though with a fiber optic cable you are using the DAC's in the receiver. You will need to use the analogue left and right output to here what the DAC's sound like in the DVD22.

[shokhead]

Are you sure? Just kidding. I'd like hershon to try his HK with the analog and see which he perfers. I bet its pretty close as his Denons a few years older but with good Dac's and his HK is newer. I'd try it but thats an all day job easy but i'm pretty sure my Denon would win out over my Sony player. You dont hear to many bragging about the Dac's in there Sony DVD player. I think with hershons Orbs,they are very detailed speaker and would hear any slight difference ,i would think.

[anamorphic96]

Actually in Hershon's defense he has used the analogue outs and he prefers the digital connection. But im not sure if J E Cole realizes he is using the receivers DAC's and not the DVD players.

Hershon the only difference between the two is the 22 does not have DVD - A. The 22 also retails for 199.00 at your local Circuit City.