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Thread: Digital TV

  1. #1
    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Digital TV

    Progressive vs interlaced TV ?Check it out ! http://alvyray.com/digitaltv/default.htm
    Last edited by PAT.P; 06-13-2007 at 08:29 AM.

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    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    After reading this article makes me wonder why consumers are being the suckers in buying HDTV in the 1080i when a 480p is as better.

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    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT.P
    After reading this article makes me wonder why consumers are being the suckers in buying HDTV in the 1080i when a 480p is as better.
    Hey Pat, it's been a while. How's it going?

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    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    Hey Pat, it's been a while. How's it going?
    Been renovating for last 6 months ,top to bottom.Mother -in-law is my new tenant in my rental unit All my extra $$$$$ is gone ! Did buy a Panasonic 42" plasma EDTV last week and yes 480p .
    Last edited by PAT.P; 06-13-2007 at 07:27 PM.

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    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    No comment , no opinion ?

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    Da Dragonball Kid L.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT.P
    No comment , no opinion ?
    My momma alwayz told me. If ya ain't got nottin' nice ta say, than don't say nottin' at all JK

    How's the PQ with HD sources? You do have HD don't ya?

    Why'd you go with EDTV?

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    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.J.
    My momma alwayz told me. If ya ain't got nottin' nice ta say, than don't say nottin' at all JK

    How's the PQ with HD sources? You do have HD don't ya?

    Why'd you go with EDTV?
    Picture quality is great and yes I have HD box.I went EDTV because of price and quality of the Panasonic.There only 60 lines dif then the 1080i and you cant tell the dif with your eyes This wont be my main system ,this is in living room.I did my research first and this one fits the bill$$$$.Just invested way more$$$$$$$$$ on renovation than I expected

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    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    I think its more your wife spent more on the renovation.....lol

    interesting choice and research, but you know us PQ nuts. If it makes you happy is all that really matters anyway. And when you think about it you may have made the best choice overall. Most broadcast are still 480i or less and your HD signals will be down-converted to 480p, which brings it to a very good DVD level of viewing. For something that's not your main viewing setup could not ask for much more for the $$$.

    I was trying to tell my oldest son about a HDTV RCA 35" CRT that wal-mart had for about $300. He didn't have the cash then but when he got is income tax cash back He went out and jump on the flat screen bandwagon. I have yet to see it, and he won't tell me how much he paid for it, but he's young (21) and still learning.
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    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    This is what you get when the ignorant start leading the unenlightened.
    EDTV is a complicated way of saying 480p.
    AND its true that when theres movement an interlaced pictures rez collapses into that of one field, which for 1080i means 540 lines
    BUT the "color palete" of 1080i is a lot broader than 480p, and most 480p is either "dowmconverted" from hd or "upconverted" from 480i stuff like DVD
    and YES DVD HAS 480 LINES, but thats the LINES, the resolution is actually 400
    lines or so.
    So you get the worst of both worlds.
    MY set is 768, with 1,100,000 pixels, more than a 1080i sets 800,000 or so pixels,
    and about three times as much as your "edtv"
    AND a 1080p (the future) has TWO MILLION PIXELS, and you can not only tell the diff from standard def, you can tell the diff from ANYTHING else.
    YES EDTV wasnt much different from early HDTV sets, but an untrained eye could SEE the difference easily, and current HDTVS are blowing the doors off of not only EDTV
    but 1080i
    BTY you know why EDTV was first started? IT WAS CHEAPER than regular plasmas,
    giving people who were cheap but wanting to brag about their "plasma" tv a chance to do so.
    It was also seen as a way of selling plasmas, most early models were very expensive.
    This is why EDTVS are almost always plasmas.
    AND yes if it makes you happy tro buy an inferior product that a 600$ lcd set can beat
    than more power to ya but dont EVEN try to say that theres "no difference" between an EDTV and a HDTV when the difference is obvious.
    BUT dont worry, most of the people you are trying to impress with that magic word
    "plasma" probably wont know or care
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    Very, very...

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    This is what you get when the ignorant start leading the unenlightened.
    EDTV is a complicated way of saying 480p.
    AND its true that when theres movement an interlaced pictures rez collapses into that of one field, which for 1080i means 540 lines
    BUT the "color palete" of 1080i is a lot broader than 480p, and most 480p is either "dowmconverted" from hd or "upconverted" from 480i stuff like DVD
    and YES DVD HAS 480 LINES, but thats the LINES, the resolution is actually 400
    lines or so.
    So you get the worst of both worlds.
    MY set is 768, with 1,100,000 pixels, more than a 1080i sets 800,000 or so pixels,
    and about three times as much as your "edtv"
    AND a 1080p (the future) has TWO MILLION PIXELS, and you can not only tell the diff from standard def, you can tell the diff from ANYTHING else.
    YES EDTV wasnt much different from early HDTV sets, but an untrained eye could SEE the difference easily, and current HDTVS are blowing the doors off of not only EDTV
    but 1080i
    BTY you know why EDTV was first started? IT WAS CHEAPER than regular plasmas,
    giving people who were cheap but wanting to brag about their "plasma" tv a chance to do so.
    It was also seen as a way of selling plasmas, most early models were very expensive.
    This is why EDTVS are almost always plasmas.
    AND yes if it makes you happy tro buy an inferior product that a 600$ lcd set can beat
    than more power to ya but dont EVEN try to say that theres "no difference" between an EDTV and a HDTV when the difference is obvious.
    BUT dont worry, most of the people you are trying to impress with that magic word
    "plasma" probably wont know or care
    ...snarky...

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  11. #11
    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    This is what you get when the ignorant start leading the unenlightened.
    EDTV is a complicated way of saying 480p.
    Somebody **** in your cereal this morning?I did'nt start this thread to get insulted.If I wanted to invest in more expensive plasma I could .

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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    MY set is 768, with 1,100,000 pixels, more than a 1080i sets 800,000 or so pixels.
    I thought 1080i set have over 2 milion pixels (1920 1080 = about 2.07 million pixels).

    The only difference between 720p and 1080i format is that pixels in 720p sets get refreshed twice as much as 1080i sets in a given time frame

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT.P
    Somebody **** in your cereal this morning?I did'nt start this thread to get insulted.If I wanted to invest in more expensive plasma I could .
    Join the club Pat P. You'll get used to it over time... *we* did.

    Fortunately, with pixelsplease, he posts at un-Godly hours and then heads back to the batcave during daylight hours. If you want to get under HIS skin just talk about how much better plasma PQ is than LCD. (Wind him up and watch him go!)

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    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    Join the club Pat P. You'll get used to it over time... *we* did.

    Fortunately, with pixelsplease, he posts at un-Godly hours and then heads back to the batcave during daylight hours. If you want to get under HIS skin just talk about how much better plasma PQ is than LCD. (Wind him up and watch him go!)
    Thanks for the warning I check the spec of his high end LCD contrast ratio 1,000:1 my EDTV up to 10,000:1 .As for the colors 16.77 million for his and for my EDTV displayable colors 29 billion.He might have a true HDTV but the colors sucks big time. Not that great for DVD movies.

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    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT.P
    Thanks for the warning I check the spec of his high end LCD contrast ratio 1,000:1 my EDTV up to 10,000:1 .As for the colors 16.77 million for his and for my EDTV displayable colors 29 billion.He might have a true HDTV but the colors sucks big time. Not that great for DVD movies.
    Who cares about DVD movies?
    When I got my first HDTV it was a 47in rear pro for 1700, a "edtv" (42in)ran 1495, it didnt make sense to get an "edtv" then and it doesnt now.
    If you want to spout nonsense fine but dont get persinkery when someone calls ya on it!
    As for rich on paper hes just ticked because his company builds the 21st century
    equalvalent of an edsel, the overengineered DLP that only produces a greyscale picture.
    Sorry if I came on a bit strong but DVd that you are planning your gear around is going to become more and more irrelavant, and you will be at a friends house watching a REAL
    TELEVISION and wonder just what the frak you were thinking, is all
    The opponenets of quality, like all of the computer nerds who wanted the new HDTV standard to be "just" 480p (we would all have "edtvs" if they had had their way) are always
    out there, if the people who actually care about this stuff dont care enough to
    fight for quality then WHO will?
    AS for my late posts, well, thats just when I get through servicing my old lady is all.
    BTW your "billions" of colors" is another scam, NTSC sets had great color, that was how they disguised their lousy picture, my 16.7 mill colors is more relevant on a system
    that actually has the bandwidth to pass that many colors
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    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT.P
    After reading this article makes me wonder why consumers are being the suckers in buying HDTV in the 1080i when a 480p is as better.
    This "article" is about 9 or 10 years old, and NOWHERE does it say that 480p is better than 1080i, just that PROGRESSIVE is better than interlaced, something that has always
    been common knowledge, but with digital tv interlace artifacts arent as bad as this article lets on,
    Sure progressive is better, but 768 is way better than 480p
    And heres one more thing, your precious dvds all have at most 300 lines of resolution, that was about all that the old ntsc system could muster in the real world, and they are ALL 480 INTERLACED, deinterlacing makes the picture look smoother, but you wont exceed the standards of the old ntsc system, and deinterlacing to 480p might just ADD
    artifacts, especially if your player doesnt handle 3:2 pulldown very well (and the cheaper players, like the one you probably have usually dont)
    A bad hdtv will show 800 lines of rez on a 1080interlaced pic(rez is different than scan lines) but this is more and more irrealvant as CRTS were the main interlaced sources, as progressive displays become more prominent this will become less and less important
    Basically you have made the common mistake of confusing scan lines for resolution
    and your thinking went downhill from there. progressive sets resolution is closer to their scan lines, but still not the same.
    But the most important thing is that you cant make a silk purse outta a sows ear, and DVDS are NTSC, if the source is pristine you might get 420 lines of rez out of one.
    But old broadcast nisc was never worth more than 380 lines, at best
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    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    To translate, you are arguing that a INTERLACED format is better because its "progressive" but its not progressive at all!
    And my 768 p set has about twice as much resolution as your "edtv", which probably at most puts out around 380 lines of resolution.
    BUT whatever makes you happy...
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    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    And my 768 p set has about twice as much resolution as your "edtv", which probably at most puts out around 380 lines of resolution.
    BUT whatever makes you happy...
    First of all ,the resolution is the least important at the distance Im sitting!What make a greater importance in viewing in order 1) contrast
    2)color saturation
    3)color accuacy
    4)resolution
    My EDTV as all of this in order while yours is all backward in order .I dont want to compensate colors for resolution Like I said before this is not my main tv .Im sitting on the side for the newer Lazer,SED,Carbon Nanotube
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    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    To translate, you are arguing that a INTERLACED format is better because its "progressive" but its not progressive at all!
    And my 768 p set has about twice as much resolution as your "edtv", which probably at most puts out around 380 lines of resolution.
    BUT whatever makes you happy...
    After the usually back and forth I see the main issue was missed:

    His Money
    His Preference
    His decision

    And I think the bottom line was keeping the cost down.

    I didn't see where he was stating that the EDTV was better than any other display, but that it will serve the propose he needed. Some time we need to take a step back and just read what is presented and stop adding our own 2-3 5 cents worth of what is better. So if I only have 5 dollars to buy a t-shirt, don't tell me how much better a 50 dollar dress shirt would be.

    It would serve the person more if the comments would have been on which EDTV has a better track record or helping with further decision on the HT setup:

    A good DVD to match with the EDTV to get the best picture possible

    AVR that could control all function (switching)

    What other display's that could been purchased at the same cost.

    That just the way I saw the post from the start! maybe I forgot to look between the lines.
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    I Care!!!

    This is a statement I find absolutely rediculous:
    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    WHO CARES ABOUT DVD?
    Or are you just joking?

    Let's talk in the here-and-now dude. Just because you don't care about DVD technology, it's advantages and shortcomings, doesn't mean the 1,000,000's of others who buy and rent them don't. Like it or not pix, DVD is today's technology, but once again, you're injecting your own personal preferences and ignoring Pat P.'s original observations and opinions. I'm willing to bet the people here who've pointed out this characteristic of yours in the past don't post in threads that you participate in anymore for just that reason. Too bad too because there's a lot of wisdom and helpful information to be had.

    I don't spend a lot of time analyzing or trying to educate myself on matters such as interlaced vs progressive, 380 lines vs 768 lines, I'm more concerned with the end result. What I have now with my DLP vs what I had on my 27" CRT just blows me away. I'm happy with what I've got. And like recoveryone said, "If it makes you happy is all that really matters anyway." You come on like people don't know what makes them happy and you're here to tell them what does make them happy. I've worked with an engineer for the past five years who's just like you so I have a good idea about what makes people like you tick.

    Live and let live dude... JMO.
    Last edited by Rich-n-Texas; 06-21-2007 at 08:29 AM.

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    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recoveryone
    After the usually back and forth I see the main issue was missed:

    His Money
    His Preference
    His decision

    And I think the bottom line was keeping the cost down.

    I didn't see where he was stating that the EDTV was better than any other display, but better track record or helping with further decision on the HT setup:

    A good DVD to match with the EDTV to get the best picture possible

    AVR that could control all function (switching)

    What other display's that could been purchased at the same cost.

    That just the way I saw the post from the start! maybe I forgot to look between the lines.
    BINGO! Not ready to fork out$$$ at this time of the game (HT receiver with HDMI 1.3,new DVD ) Im always 1 to 2years later for technology and its fine to me.Need to pay down my line of credit from renovation( 6 months no rental income ,building materials,paid labor ) thats my priority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    As for rich on paper hes just ticked because his company builds the 21st century
    equalvalent of an edsel, the overengineered DLP that only produces a greyscale picture.


    'Nuf said...

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    Forum Regular DEVO's Avatar
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    So True

    Quote Originally Posted by PAT.P
    First of all ,the resolution is the least important at the distance Im sitting!What make a greater importance in viewing in order 1) contrast
    2)color saturation
    3)color accuacy
    4)resolution
    My EDTV as all of this in order while yours is all backward in order .I dont want to compensate colors for resolution Like I said before this is not my main tv .Im sitting on the side for the newer Lazer,SED,Carbon Nanotube
    This Post has gotten very out of hand...but rez. is sooooooo overrated! As is other specs, contrast (where is that contrast policeman anyway?) Every manufacture lies like a rug! LCD's have got to fix alot of things before they can really compete w/ plasma's.

    1. motion artifacts
    2. black level
    3. viewing angles

    I have an older Panasonic 480p (paid 2,500 new) at my bike shop that is used all day long, and it is showing a Yamaha DVDC750. It looks great, mostly viewing bicycle videos, but everyone who walks into the store loves it! I will post pics later (store is under renovation due to roof damage). But, point is source matches tv. It looks very smooth, with very good black level. And should last a very long time! LCD's can't do that...yet...no matter what rez!

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    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
    This is a statement I find absolutely rediculous:

    Or are you just joking?

    Let's talk in the here-and-now dude. Just because you don't care about DVD technology, it's advantages and shortcomings, doesn't mean the 1,000,000's of others who buy and rent them don't. Like it or not pix, DVD is today's technology, but once again, you're injecting your own personal preferences and ignoring Pat P.'s original observations and opinions. I'm willing to bet the people here who've pointed out this characteristic of yours in the past don't post in threads that you participate in anymore for just that reason. Too bad too because there's a lot of wisdom and helpful information to be had.

    I don't spend a lot of time analyzing or trying to educate myself on matters such as interlaced vs progressive, 380 lines vs 768 lines, I'm more concerned with the end result. What I have now with my DLP vs what I had on my 27" CRT just blows me away. I'm happy with what I've got. And like recoveryone said, "If it makes you happy is all that really matters anyway." You come on like people don't know what makes them happy and you're here to tell them what does make them happy. I've worked with an engineer for the past five years who's just like you so I have a good idea about what makes people like you tick.

    Live and let live dude... JMO.
    WHERE TO START
    1) If it makes you happy to buy an inferiour product at almost (or more) than a superiour
    product fine, whatever floats your boat, but like you said people cruise these sites
    for info, and the person who started this thread is so far off the mark I had to respond
    with a few inconvienent things called facts.
    To let stand the total nonsense this guy posted would be the height of irresponsibility.
    He is actually saying that a INTERLACED source is better than an INTERLACED
    source! DVD is INTERLACED 480 lines!
    As for not caring about things like resolution, etc, its easy to see you are in the marketing end of your company, with people like your engineer friend bursting your bubble all of the time with these messy little "facts".
    Trutth is, you work for a company that produces a display device that is greyscale, and
    charges so much that you cant use three to get color, and have no clue that even as we speak the marketplace is answering back with a resounding NO WAY
    But I digress, if the person who started this thread is happy with his inferior way of watching things fine, but get your facts right, okay?
    AS for "who cares about dvd" I am talking about the fact that the tech is mature, you wont get any more out of it, not to mention people who get HDTV tell me that they watch DVD less and less, the picture compared to HD just doesnt cut it.
    Sure its good compared to NTSC broadcasts but what isnt?
    As for contrast, color saturation, etc, I havent found ANYBODY who thinks standard def is better that high def, which is basically what you're saying
    Plasmas have the same black level problems that all of the new display formats have,
    and have serious burn-in and longetivity issues.
    But the most galling thing is the complete misrepresentation of your original post.
    You quoted a site that is ten years old, and the people on that site arent advocating 480p, they are advocating 720p! (which is at least twice as good as 480p btw)
    I might make mistakes, we all do, and I post off the fly on this site, but am right pretty most of the time.
    You wanna impress chicks with your "plasma" fine, more power to ya, but dont EVEN
    start with saying its "as good" as any high def source
    Just state the truth, its an inferiour display tech thats as expensive (or more so) than a lot of better devices out there, the only reason you want one is to say you have a "PLASMA"
    TV, which is fine.
    But a good picture is just more important to me, is all
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    Forum Regular PAT.P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis

    You wanna impress chicks with your "plasma" fine, more power to ya, but dont EVEN
    start with saying its "as good" as any high def source
    Just state the truth, its an inferiour display tech thats as expensive (or more so) than a lot of better devices out there, the only reason you want one is to say you have a "PLASMA"
    TV, which is fine.
    But a good picture is just more important to me, is all
    What are you talking about?I started this thread for info i vs p and the way it works.I did'nt compare 480p to 720p but to a 540 i yes. I have a Sharp lcd hdtv ready and dont want cable box on it.This plasma is in our living room and we dont spend hours watching tv but have a large collection of dvd music concert ,music video and movies.The price was right at this time of the game and it does'nt take much room.

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