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  1. #1
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Why I'm a bad audiophile

    Here at AR, (where I call myself an "audio enthusiast" anyway), it's not so bad, but in that other place I get no respect at all. Here are the main reasons.
    • I don't love vinyl. I don't think it is inherently the superior medium. I don't like the rice krispies. I think the big difference from CD is (or was in the past) recording method, and that the best CDs are as good or better than LPs. I don't cherish handling LPs: cleaning them before and after each playing; the tense moments lowering that $$ cartridge on the record, etc..
    • I don't love tubes. With good recordings, including RBCDs, decent quality solid state sounds better. I'm deeply suspicious that the "musicality", "soul", "depth", "harmonic texture", "wholeness", "continuity", etc., attributed to tubes are really artifacts of higher distortion.
    • I have no patience for tweaks. My experiments with the likes of power cords have been a wast of time and I certainly have inclination to spend a $1000 each on a set of them despite claims of "huge improvement" from some golden ears. I'm "close minded" about the possible benefit of jars of pebbles and the like.
    • I'm boggled at the price of very expensive components and doubt the incremental value of $5000+ amps, $10,000+ speakers, not to mention $100,000+ turntables.
    • But worst of all, I have a utilitarian attitude. That is, good enough is good enough. Tiny improvements and absolute perfection aren't essential to my enjoyment of the hobby.



  2. #2
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Well to me all this money and equipment are means to an end. I know what i seek and i can accept the fact that it takes 25K plus amps to get there. Good enough is good enough, might be enough for some but doesnt have to be for all.

    See on the bright site, i get respect from fellow audiophooles on this site but not from the masses because of the money invested blablah and get tons of repsect on audiophile sites for my dedication and knowledge. I just build my crossover where the parts alone cost me 3100$.....watch me get smoked for that on this site too....

    Its all good...dont worry...

    PS: What is good enough for one might be just the beginning for another one.
    Last edited by Florian; 03-26-2006 at 05:47 AM.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  3. #3
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Flo, you're a 'good' audiophile

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    ...
    See on the bright site, i get respect from fellow audiophooles on this site but not from the masses because of the money invested blablah and get tons of repsect on audiophile sites for my dedication and knowledge. I just build my crossover where the parts alone cost me 3100$.....watch me get smoked for that on this site too....

    PS: What is good enough for one might be just the beginning for another one.
    Your obsession has made you pretty expert in some areas, and I'm glad you share that knowledge.


    'Good enough' for me is for me, granted. My 'good enough' is conditioned by a lot of things: time, space, money, musical taste, etc.. And it's not a fixed thing. Nor I am I saying that I think my system is 'good enough' even for me a the moment. See a diagram of my current system ...My vinyl playback would definitely not be 'good enough' if I actually listened to LPs very often, but since I don't, it is. I would like to replace the Behringer T1951 with a DEQ2496. Also the wireless connection to the NAS has occassional drop-outs, so I want to added an external HD directly to a hub with the M-Audio.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Looking good so far, my advise would be in the room and of course the crossover upgrade. The crossover upgrade will definetly throw the 1.6 into another league, if you would like i can give you some pointers etc...

    As far as the good is good enough goes, let me say that i have been happy with all my systems and enjoyed music with all of them. But would i go back to a MG3.6 or MG20 now and be happy? No, i wont. Will i be happy now with a Krell KSA250 etc..? No, i wont.

    Some reach for the limit and others dont, some are fine and happy where they are at and i will definetly not say that they are wrong. But i personally seak much much more and if we can respect that we are fine..


    :-)

    PS: My next upgrades are an apartment, then the power filters, powerlines and more on the room acoustic. I just bought a second pair of DIVAS here in europe that found with a digital active crossover. My new crossovers are done and sing heavinly... is it all insane? Yes it is, but once you hear it you will understand.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  5. #5
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Here at AR, (where I call myself an "audio enthusiast" anyway), it's not so bad, but in that other place I get no respect at all. Here are the main reasons.
    • I don't love vinyl. I don't think it is inherently the superior medium. I don't like the rice krispies. I think the big difference from CD is (or was in the past) recording method, and that the best CDs are as good or better than LPs. I don't cherish handling LPs: cleaning them before and after each playing; the tense moments lowering that $$ cartridge on the record, etc..
    • I don't love tubes. With good recordings, including RBCDs, decent quality solid state sounds better. I'm deeply suspicious that the "musicality", "soul", "depth", "harmonic texture", "wholeness", "continuity", etc., attributed to tubes are really artifacts of higher distortion.
    • I have no patience for tweaks. My experiments with the likes of power cords have been a wast of time and I certainly have inclination to spend a $1000 each on a set of them despite claims of "huge improvement" from some golden ears. I'm "close minded" about the possible benefit of jars of pebbles and the like.
    • I'm boggled at the price of very expensive components and doubt the incremental value of $5000+ amps, $10,000+ speakers, not to mention $100,000+ turntables.
    • But worst of all, I have a utilitarian attitude. That is, good enough is good enough. Tiny improvements and absolute perfection aren't essential to my enjoyment of the hobby.


    Hi,
    Sleep easy, you're not a bad audiophile- whatever that may be. As you know my system contains the exact opposite from what you like. I will not try to convince you that it is better or otherwise. I have been through the digital, solid state thing and was not satisfied. On my latest speaker purchase I had to make a choice between the 5k or the 9k version, and let me tell you there was a distinct difference. And since my money is hard earned the speakers had to justify the outlay and they did and I went for the signature version. Like Flo said it is all very subjective and I for one am very interested in reading about all systems in all price and performance ranges.
    I tried a very expensive Clearaudio TT and to me, it was not worth the money and the sound it created did not move me. So I will do sent things back, but if they put the performance of my rig one or two notches up on the performance ladder I will spent what is necessary, at the moment I am saving for a Koetsu. It is after all my hobby but more so a passion. In the end it's music I love. And I agree with Flo in that I could not go back to anything lesser to serious move me.
    So just enjoy what you have and be proud of it. Let the music flow my friend.

    Peace

    Bernd
    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  6. #6
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Chances are you're in it more for the music, not the equipment and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. They're almost two different hobbies which some try to mix and some don't.

  7. #7
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Value is determined by budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernd
    Hi,
    Sleep easy, you're not a bad audiophile- whatever that may be. As you know my system contains the exact opposite from what you like. I will not try to convince you that it is better or otherwise. ... and I for one am very interested in reading about all systems in all price and performance ranges.
    ...

    Bernd
    What's "good enough" is determined largely by sense of value which, in turn, is largely determined by disposable funds available -- very sadly in my case, not a lot No doubt if I had more cash, I'd go for a better system.

    There are other factors things at work. For the same buck I could have a vinyl/tube set up, but digital is better overall for me because of the things that can be done with it that can't be done with analog. Nope, you won't persuade me otherwise

  8. #8
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Different emphases

    Quote Originally Posted by emorphien
    Chances are you're in it more for the music, not the equipment and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. They're almost two different hobbies which some try to mix and some don't.
    You're right about different hobbies, although for most audio enthusiasts/audiophiles there is overlap. (Most of us have met or at least heard of some guy who has $10k++ worth of equipment but no more than a dozen or twenty records.)

    I don't know whether I'm more into the music than the average audophile. I have streak of DIY/experimenter in my that I would like to indulge. In the foresable future I'd like to build a pair of speakers utilizing active crossovers, time delay (as necessary), and equalization, all DSP. What I don't have much interest in is spending many hours A/B'ing dozens of pricey components or fiddling with exotic cables and isolation devices. I know I can make much more substantial improvements going my route than I can that route.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emorphien
    Chances are you're in it more for the music, not the equipment and IMO there's nothing wrong with that. They're almost two different hobbies which some try to mix and some don't.
    Just a quick question, why cant a person love both music and expensive equipment?
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  10. #10
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Just a quick question, why cant a person love both music and expensive equipment?
    Did I say they couldn't?

  11. #11
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emorphien
    Did I say they couldn't?
    No, just sounded like you meant its one or the other. No harm :-)
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  12. #12
    Forum Regular Modernaire's Avatar
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    One word for you Feamor. Lazy.

  13. #13
    Aging Smartass
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Here at AR, (where I call myself an "audio enthusiast" anyway), it's not so bad, but in that other place I get no respect at all.
    I too consider myself an "audio enthusiast," and not an audiophile. If I'm not mistaken, "that other place" is one that kicked me off because I had the audacity to state material similar to that which you did in your post, and to openly disagree with some postings from that site's administrators. Fortunately, nothing like that happens here, as our admins seem to be built of intellectually superior stock.

    I have invested over $10K in my system, and I suspect that, if I had money to spend/waste, I'd probably experiement with $35,000 turntables, $17,000 cartrdiges and stuff like that. Since I don't have that kind of money to throw around, and don't have my head in the stars, I don't do anything of the sort.

    I thoroghly enjoy listening to my system, and have well over 1,000 each of LP's and CD's. I do my best to offer advice and my professional experience to anyone who asks, and have some very firm opinions of my own, based on having listened to recorded music for most of my 61 years on the planet, my frequent attendance at symphonic concerts, and the many years having been employed in the industry with a variety of manufacturers..

    I find many of the postings here at Audio Review interesting, and some really silly. That's the way it goes, doesn't it?

    Keep writing, and I'll keep reading, and thanks.

  14. #14
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Here at AR, (where I call myself an "audio enthusiast" anyway), it's not so bad, but in that other place I get no respect at all. Here are the main reasons.
    • I don't love vinyl. I don't think it is inherently the superior medium. I don't like the rice krispies. I think the big difference from CD is (or was in the past) recording method, and that the best CDs are as good or better than LPs. I don't cherish handling LPs: cleaning them before and after each playing; the tense moments lowering that $$ cartridge on the record, etc..
    • I don't love tubes. With good recordings, including RBCDs, decent quality solid state sounds better. I'm deeply suspicious that the "musicality", "soul", "depth", "harmonic texture", "wholeness", "continuity", etc., attributed to tubes are really artifacts of higher distortion.
    • I have no patience for tweaks. My experiments with the likes of power cords have been a wast of time and I certainly have inclination to spend a $1000 each on a set of them despite claims of "huge improvement" from some golden ears. I'm "close minded" about the possible benefit of jars of pebbles and the like.
    • I'm boggled at the price of very expensive components and doubt the incremental value of $5000+ amps, $10,000+ speakers, not to mention $100,000+ turntables.
    • But worst of all, I have a utilitarian attitude. That is, good enough is good enough. Tiny improvements and absolute perfection aren't essential to my enjoyment of the hobby.


    I think you are a fine Audiophile/enthusiast. Let them like what they like. You can enjoy what you like. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to disagree.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  15. #15
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Poor, certainly

    Quote Originally Posted by Modernaire
    One word for you Feamor. Lazy.
    But lazy? Do you mean I ought to while away a dozen hours a week, for example, swapping cables in search of minute (or imaginary) improvements? Ain't going to happen

    My life might not be very exciting, but it's more exciting than that!

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    But lazy? Do you mean I ought to while away a dozen hours a week, for example, swapping cables in search of minute (or imaginary) improvements? Ain't going to happen

    My life might not be very exciting, but it's more exciting than that!

    I honestly did not understand the lazy comment or the need for it.
    You like what you like and are not influenced by others or the trend of the week. I think that makes you a good audiophile.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  17. #17
    Forum Regular KaiWinters's Avatar
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    Florian, who started this on another site then moved here after receiving some bashing, earned the negative comments by stating, on another forum, that Paradigm, B+W and Bose all sound the same to him. This was during another "Bose Discussion".

    Some, myself included, felt this was rather demeaning and beneath the spirit of "enthusiasts" of all forms and he was called on it.
    Apparently he has resorted to starting this silly thread here in order to get some pats on the back for his indulgence describing his "indulgence" as an audiophile of the highest degree.

    I do not denegrate his indulgence but do not like to be demeaned for doing the best I can with what I have. In fact I celebrate his enthusiasm for it continues the efforts for the best quality of sound by the designers, manufacturers and enthusiasts. We push the envelope constantly.
    Florian's time and money spent is an audiophile of the highest degree. I would rather see that than the rich person, several are my friends, who will spend outrageous, in my opinion, amounts of money on a system that they barely know how to turn on, do not know how it was set up nor how to tweak it, do not appreciate the sound expect to say how much it cost...trophy...and would be just as well served by a Bose Lifestyle system and think it too was the best they ever heard.

    We can learn from enthusiasts such as Florian.
    Being demeaned, whether it was meant that way or not, by such as he is generally not tolerated and those that do are called on it.

  18. #18
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Feanor,

    I don't think you're a "bad" audiophile at all. You just happen to be well grounded, not easily swayed, and confident in your own abilities. Nothing wrong with that all. Let's also keep in mind that your rig is far from mass market and is one that Joe Shmoe wouldn't even understand.

    We've gone over the gear geek vs. music lover debate ad nauseum, so let's skip past that one again, m'kay?

    For those like Bernd where this truly is a passion, I can certainly understand his depth of commitment and resources. I mean, why not? It's not like we can take it with us so you might as well indulge your interests for the short time we're all on this rock.

    Personally, audio is an interesting diversion, a porthole to a different reality if you will. I'm blessed enough to have the resources to buy pretty well anything I want, but because I'm not as convicted as Bernd or others, I don't see the need to allocate as much as my attention or funds as they do (that's what cars and investments are for!). I enjoy what I have and save for the instances where some part simply becomes obsolete or breaks, rarely do I feel the need to upgrade. Oh sure, I'll build another 2 channel rig sometime, but that's for sh!ts and giggles. It won't mean that I'm dissatisfied with my current rig at all. Like you, I'm highly skeptical of magic sonic snot, green pens, and other geeky voo-doo. To Flo's credit, at least the upgrades he does make sense (unless he's simply not telling us about the other stuff ).

    Meh, I'm rambling. Sufficeth to say that if you're a "bad" audiophile, I'm absolutely rotten.

  19. #19
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    Feanor,

    I don't think you're a "bad" audiophile at all. You just happen to be well grounded, not easily swayed, and confident in your own abilities. Nothing wrong with that all. Let's also keep in mind that your rig is far from mass market and is one that Joe Shmoe wouldn't even understand.

    We've gone over the gear geek vs. music lover debate ad nauseum, so let's skip past that one again, m'kay?

    For those like Bernd where this truly is a passion, I can certainly understand his depth of commitment and resources. I mean, why not? It's not like we can take it with us so you might as well indulge your interests for the short time we're all on this rock.

    Personally, audio is an interesting diversion, a porthole to a different reality if you will. I'm blessed enough to have the resources to buy pretty well anything I want, but because I'm not as convicted as Bernd or others, I don't see the need to allocate as much as my attention or funds as they do (that's what cars and investments are for!). I enjoy what I have and save for the instances where some part simply becomes obsolete or breaks, rarely do I feel the need to upgrade. Oh sure, I'll build another 2 channel rig sometime, but that's for sh!ts and giggles. It won't mean that I'm dissatisfied with my current rig at all. Like you, I'm highly skeptical of magic sonic snot, green pens, and other geeky voo-doo. To Flo's credit, at least the upgrades he does make sense (unless he's simply not telling us about the other stuff ).

    Meh, I'm rambling. Sufficeth to say that if you're a "bad" audiophile, I'm absolutely rotten.
    Thanks for the kind words and I do hope that I'll have a few more years left before the big listening room in the sky (or down below) is calling me.
    I actually do not like the term "Audiophile" it sounds somehow like something you shouldn't be, or shouldn't be doing.
    Very simple, my hobby is the audio equipment and the parts requiered to enjoy a great recording, but my passion is music. I love to listen to the music I like with the best equipment I can afford. And I think if that criteria is used then it does not matter what the budget is.
    It is of course all about priorities, I drive a 10+ years old 4 wheel drive and my wife has the new high performance car, but I have the listening room and the major system.
    In the end it's your ears and mostly it's you alone listening to your music. So enjoy what you got. And topspeed, if I may say so, for a rotten devil you're doing alright!

    Play dem tunes

    Bernd
    Last edited by Bernd; 03-29-2006 at 03:10 AM.
    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  20. #20
    Forum Regular KaiWinters's Avatar
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    While I do not often post my membership goes back to 2003 so not particularly new to this site.

    I would never tell a Bose owner that his/her speakers suck...that would be rude and uncouth. We make our purchases for many reasons and speaker purchases are generally the most "listener specific" purchase you can make. If a person were to ask me for advice regarding a speaker upgrade or purchase and was including Bose in their choice(s) I would ask them why and listen carefully to their reasoning. I would offer alternatives to Bose but always tell them to buy what makes your ears happy within the budget allocated and enjoy them.

    PS: I prefer "Kai"...Mr Winters sounds condescending and a bit to formal.

    In my opinion a "bad audiophile" is someone that throws money away on equiptment solely for the purpose of having a "trophy" that is bigger/better and badder than everyone elses but did not set it up because they barely have a clue on how to turn it on, no understanding of what they bought or why, would not open an owners manual or tweak said system even under extreme duress, barely even listens to it because they still do not know how to turn it all on and winds up using their "Bose Wave Machine" because it is easier...there are people out there that fit this description and bill themselves as "audiophile"...

    I have been an audio enthusiast for over 30 years...going back to FM converters in cars...installing and tweaking car stereos in my cars and friends...moved to home stereo about the same time and have never stopped. Oft times we are restrained by budget and location when making purchases but I have not lost my "ear"...I am able to determine and describe the differences between speakers, receivers, etc by listening carefully. Most of us in fact do this and have quite sophisticated ears...sometimes we are limited by our benchmarks.

  21. #21
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Dear Kai,

    i should add that i did enjoy my beginnings where i had 4 Alarm clocks in every room tuned to the same station to my Fullrange ribbon system and everything in bettween.
    I know very well what its like to have limited fund

    There is a general missconeption about me on this site, and that is that i do not like systems such as B&W and Paradigm. Let me explain why this is.

    As a owner of a audio systems well in realms of a new 5 series BMW i am often asked about the opinions of an audio system. I compare and judge every piece of gear against my personal reference system and then explain the shortcommings. To me a speaker needs to have 1 driver material for every single range, has to have no mass and a huge control. It should have no resonances made by a box and needs to be completely uncolored.

    I do not describe a speaker with words such as "crisp" or "tight", i want a system where i am unable to tell the difference between reproduced and real. This is my personal goal!

    Often a question is raised about a 600$ speaker which is already pretty expensive and there is a comment made by Woochiever, RGA, Kex etc.. where they seem to tell the new member that this Paradigm and Axiom will deliver the same sound quality then a State of the Art system for far less money. For instance, "Magnepan vs. BOSE" threads.

    I for one find it laughable and so absordly wrong that i write pages and argue to the death with the likes of mentioned above to teach them. But i fail misserable and the "easiest" way to attack me is by calling me a snob and that the new member should ignore my recommendations because no one can afford them.

    I see these things differently, Woochiever etc.. are croud pleaser. They say what the masses want to hear and get respect for that. Its no problem coppying the dolby guidelines or knwowing the sample rate of the new high res formats. This is not rocket sience but basic understandings. The use of carpets on the wall wont even break the waves of midrange signals.

    But this is not the point, i love each and every system may they be 100 or 100000 Dollars but if Wooch comes in and tells me that he "chose" a Paradigm Ref 40 etc..over a big Electreostatic because of their supposely limited dynamic range etc. i jump in my seat and start to question the reality he is living in.

    Is a Ford Mondeo a good car?
    Yes, but is it as good as a Bentley Arnage?
    No, it is not.

    This is not sayint that the Ford is crap, but you cant compare a Ford to a Bentley.

    Its the same in audio, but people use the easy way out and tell me that i am a snob because if it doesnt cost 10K it cant be good.

    This is very untrue, but you need a certain budget to get quality sound. If i recommened you a 400$ speaker, how much do you think the parts cost? What about the workers, advertising, construction material, research etc... That speaker doesnt cost more then 40$ to make and B&W, Paradigm, Axiom, BOSE etc,,, are too me all the same. Mass market equipment with very big faulst and i would much rather recommend rare alternatives!

    It is a fact, i would choose a 25 year old Magnepan over ANY B&W, ANY Paradigm or ANY Yamaha box.

    Is this wrong? Does this mean that i do not like the person who has such a box?

    No! But it is not my choice!
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  22. #22
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    There is a general missconeption about me on this site, and that is that i do not like systems such as B&W and Paradigm. Let me explain why this is.
    If it is true, it's not a missconception. It's a fact. Are you 100% sure you have never completely insulted and trashed one of these brands? Didn't think so.

    . To me a speaker needs to have 1 driver material for every single range
    To me, this is the kiss of death. Show me one material in existance that behaves the same across the entire band of frequencies. You can't. Materials differ in behavior as frequencies change. I prefer consistency, sometimes this necessitates having drivers of different materials. To be honest, I don't care what the material is as long as it sounds good.
    has to have no mass
    Everything has mass. Low mass or high mass by itself is not a determining factor of sound quality. That's right, mass has nothing to do with driver speed, frequency, or transient response. This is old news.

    and a huge control
    Adequate control. When control exceeds the boundaries that influence human perception, it ceases to be a benefit.

    It should have no resonances made by a box
    You must hate a lot of musical instruments. Personally I don't care how the sound is made, as long as it is accurate, with as little distortion as possible.

    and needs to be completely uncolored.
    Agreed. Distortion sucks. You must hate ribbons as much as I do.

    Often a question is raised about a 600$ speaker which is already pretty expensive and there is a comment made by Woochiever, RGA, Kex etc.. where they seem to tell the new member that this Paradigm and Axiom will deliver the same sound quality then a State of the Art system for far less money. For instance, "Magnepan vs. BOSE" threads.
    Here you go lying again. I asked you last week to provide 1 example where I, or anyone else you implicated (now Wooch and RGA, that pair beats three of a kind anyday!!!) ever mentioned that Paradigm, or Axiom (or B&W for that matter) give the "same sound quality" as something far more expensive. Didn't happen. You can't find an example. You are making this up. I don't know why.

    I for one find it laughable and so absordly wrong that i write pages and argue to the death with the likes of mentioned above to teach them. But i fail misserable and the "easiest" way to attack me is by calling me a snob and that the new member should ignore my recommendations because no one can afford them.
    You miss the point again. Maybe it's the language barrier. If you ever leave your mommie's home and decide to buy your own, you migth ask for recommendations. You might have $2,000,000 to spend on a home. Nobody is doing you any favours recommending a $200,000,000,000,000,000 island somewhere.

    This is not rocket sience but basic understandings. The use of carpets on the wall wont even break the waves of midrange signals.
    Did someone say it will? Or are you making more lies up?

    But this is not the point, i love each and every system may they be 100 or 100000 Dollars but if Wooch comes in and tells me that he "chose" a Paradigm Ref 40 etc..over a big Electreostatic because of their supposely limited dynamic range etc. i jump in my seat and start to question the reality he is living in.
    This coming from someone who believes mass is bad and speakers should have no mass.

    This is very untrue, but you need a certain budget to get quality sound
    . Wrong...YOU need to spend a certain budget to get what you THINK is quality sound. It's different for everyone, and there's no absolute right or wrong answer...

    If i recommened you a 400$ speaker, how much do you think the parts cost? What about the workers, advertising, construction material, research etc... That speaker doesnt cost more then 40$ to make and B&W, Paradigm, Axiom, BOSE etc,,, are too me all the same. Mass market equipment with very big faulst and i would much rather recommend rare alternatives!
    You like rare speakers. I like good sounding speakers. I don't care if their mass market or rare, as long as they are the are among the best in their price-range.

    It is a fact, i would choose a 25 year old Magnepan over ANY B&W, ANY Paradigm or ANY Yamaha box.
    Great. Other people would not. So what?

    No! But it is not my choice!
    Nobody has a problem with your choices. If Apogees and Paradigms cost the same, I suspect everyone would want Apogees. They don't. You seem incapable of grasping the reality that some people don't want the absolute best sound...they want the best sound they can afford...big difference.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular KaiWinters's Avatar
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    Florian based on your most recent post I have no disagreement with your statements. Matter of fact you just scared the hell out of me with your Ford vs Bentley comparison. I was going to add a similar comparison using the Ford Focus, your Mondeo, and the Bugatti but decided not to use other product comparisons to stray from the audio realm.

    Unfortunately you made some people bristle, me for one, when you "stated" that to you Paradigm, B+W and Bose speakers all sound the same...that is not a worthy statement of an audio enthusiast or an audiophile but is the statement of a "snob" or one making "snobbish" comments that basically demean those "beneath" them...perhaps you did not intend it that way but you did say it in public and were called on it.

    From this point on I have put the thread behind me and have enjoyed your most recent thread. It seemed, to me, to be a bit more thoughtful.

    PS: The radio I have in my bathroom is the size of a Bose cube speaker, uses 4 AA batteries and is bright pink with yellow trim. It works fine for listening to the news, etc in AM mode. I can easily afford a much nicer radio but by far it is the favorite radio I will ever own because it was the first radio I bought for my daughter when she was 5. She carried it everywhere. When she out grew it I asked for it and see her every time I turn it on. She is now 21 and lives in another state where she is working on her second degree and preparing to "take care of good 'ol dad" when she is a wealthy woman...lol.

  24. #24
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiWinters
    Unfortunately you made some people bristle, me for one, when you "stated" that to you Paradigm, B+W and Bose speakers all sound the same...that is not a worthy statement of an audio enthusiast or an audiophile but is the statement of a "snob" or one making "snobbish" comments that basically demean those "beneath" them...perhaps you did not intend it that way but you did say it in public and were called on it.
    Agreed 100%. He doesn't have to like them, but he's either being snobbish and condescending by that statement or really can't hear the differences and thus I doubt his ability to appreciate anything good, bad or obscenely expensive.

    Perhaps his message is good, but he sure needs to work on a way to communicate it better.

  25. #25
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Thanks for yet unother factless, pointless and idiot post Kex...it only further depends the opinion and the lack of respect of your knowledge we have on this forum about you. Yes i mention we, i am not alone. And while you at it, we can add Wooch. who copies and pastes articles.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

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