Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
We're still waiting for you to provide a single example of a high performance system that uses a single sub. In every example you've provided, there have been between four and five! Best of luck to you!
I do not need to find any example of a high performance system that uses a single sub, I can put together my own. How about a system built around 5 Thiel CS-3.7 mated with a single SS4 sub. That is a high performance system. My point is that I do not have to be boxed in by your examples, I can put together my own system easily.




Intelligent people make such statements using clearly identified points of reference. Perhaps Mr. Car Stereo is simply an idiot who doesn't understand the language. Recall that he is your expert in the field.
Unfortunately Mr. Car Stereo's research agrees with Mr Floyd Toole's research on the same subject. So whatever issues you have with him, that is your business, but it does not take away from the fact he is right on this issue.


Why is observing the highest level of performance "elitist"? Apparently, it must all be about ownership to you. As a car enthusiast, I love nothing more than to watch and hear F1 cars outperform every other kind of race car in every aspect. Will I ever own one? Are you kidding? Will I ever own the kinds of systems I've heard with my reviewer friends? Same answer. What bearing does recognizing and appreciating the highest level of audio art have to do with elitism? It is what it is. And I have been very fortunate to have a long term source for continuing to experience what is possible.

rw
I don't think the observing the highest level of performance is an issue. What I take issue with is alot of what YOU call high performance is not really necessary to get high performance. There is no need to separate the bass from each channel when they are going to be combined within the room anyway. In a room, there is no such thing as discrete bass. So the whole concept you put forth about why these systems have two seperate bass cabinets is flawed from the get go. The elitism comes from saying that a system with a single sub is flawed because it has only one sub. That is pure BS. Both Mr. Car Stereo and Dr. Toole's research has shown that the advantage two subs bring to the table is a smoother response over a front row of seats, and to provide headroom within the system. However, your Rives audio example has a single seat, and that is the way most "audiophiles" listen to music, is from one point in the room. If you are only going to listen from the sweet spot, two subs are not necessary, only one is.

When I say that the high end has a lot of BS science attached to it, this is one example of it. We could jump into the $4000 dollar a piece interconnects, $500 a foot speaker cable, and the various other over priced accessories that "audiophiles" think are necessary, but that is not the topic of this thread.

I have absolutely no problem with high end equipment as long as the high end is turned into real performance, and not just a bunch of over priced fluff. A system with two huge speakers, and two huge subwoofers put together in the name of keeping bass frequencies discrete is a waste of money, because once that bass enters the room, it is no longer discrete. I can understand separating the bass from the mains as an argument, but keeping the bass discrete between two channels? Nope, can't do it, it makes no acoustical sense for one seat in a room. Three seats, yes, but not one seat.