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  1. #1
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool RESPECT (for 249$)

    Receiver owners have never gotten much respect from owners of high end
    audio, save the occasional NAD, Concert , or maybe a 5,000 Denon.
    And for good reason, BEST BUY is selling a Pioneer receiver , 110wx5,
    for 299 BUCKS.
    Thats HTIB territory.
    Of course theres better, spend a grand and you can get a pretty decent receiver,
    and it will do mostly what you need.
    However , now you can supercharge your front two channels for 249 bucks with a two channel amp from Emotiva.
    Wil you get any respect? Maybe not... BUT YOU WONT CARE.
    This amp is a goodie, all you need is a receiver with a decent preamp, and a decent pair of speakers, and you're ready to go.
    With most of the local hi-fi sources folding up, its been awhile since I have even auditioned
    a decent amp, so the Emotiva was a pleasant surprize.
    Audio nirvanah for 249$.
    I LIKE STEREO BASS, (yes it does exist) and with the Emo the bass from my fronts are tight, response is fast,, and the Natilus tweeters on my B&W'S sound like Angels
    singing.
    Results weren't as good on four ohm Axioms, might give them another try, but A-B-ing
    these monsters is difficult.
    With todays production methods there is no reason for a decent two channel amp to cost
    north of five hundred bucks(Adcom had one for 750$).
    Will a more expensive amp sound better? thats in the ear of the beholder.
    I say not enough (.00000001%) to matter.
    So there is relief for those who can never seem to get the scratch together for decent gear.
    There is no excuse now.
    A plus is that HT rocks also, your system will sound better all around, and you will get
    the best of both worlds , a decent audio system and a decent HT system.
    Will you finally get some "respect"?
    Again, WHO CARES?
    This amp is sweet.
    Cant miss. I was a scoffer when I saw this company with its cheapjack prices , but brothers and sisters, after two weeks or so of toe curling musical heaven,
    I BELEIVE.
    Get one of these.
    NOW.
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  2. #2
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Glad it worked out. That's 3 of us that have been skeptics with this brand (Mr. P, you and myself). They certainly are raising the bar in the entry/mid-level market and giving people a viable alternative to the usual Japanese company stuff. We've seen this before with the likes of Outlaw and NAD.

  3. #3
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as stereo bass. The wavelengths at bass frequencies are wider than our heads, so it is impossible for it to create a stereo image. The information that forms a stereo image happens at 100hz and above.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 12-13-2009 at 02:42 PM.
    Sir Terrence

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  4. #4
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    There is no such thing as stereo bass. The wavelengths at bass frequencies are wider than our heads, so it is impossible for it to create a stereo image. The information that forms a stereo image happens at 100hz and above.
    Others may differ with your assertion that frequencies above 100 hz are the midrange. Many consider the bass to extend three octaves (160 hz) which most certainly contains directional content. I use dual subs for that very reason.

    rw

  5. #5
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Others may differ with your assertion that frequencies above 100 hz are the midrange. Many consider the bass to extend three octaves (160 hz) which most certainly contains directional content. I use dual subs for that very reason.

    rw
    Very good point...Middle c on a piano is probably around 250 Hz...an octave lower than that I'd consider subjectively to be in the upper bass range, so there's some overlap there.

  6. #6
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    There is no such thing as stereo bass. The wavelengths at bass frequencies are wider than our heads, so it is impossible for it to create a stereo image. The information that forms a stereo image happens at 100hz and above.
    The frequency I've most often heard quoted is 80 Hz.

  7. #7
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Others may differ with your assertion that frequencies above 100 hz are the midrange. Many consider the bass to extend three octaves (160 hz) which most certainly contains directional content. I use dual subs for that very reason.

    rw
    Sorry Stat, but you are not correct. First I never said anything about midrange being at 100hz, so please do add words which are not there. Secondly, it has been widely established that 100hz and below is non directional, and most musicians, acousticians and audio engineers consider frequencies above 100hz as the mid bass, not the midrange.

    http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ge...gs-made-simple

    Notice these words

    Low frequency information below 120Hz is, for the most part, non-directional, meaning that even if the info is “crossing over” from a surround channel, you won’t know it.

    http://www.ultimateavmag.com/howto/805bass/index1.html

    Under myths and confusion are these words

    Low bass is NOT directional. If I had a penny for every time someone has told me they can hear bass directionality down to 20 Hz, I would be writing this article while flying to the French Riviera in my private jet. Yes, we can hear the overtones of bass instruments above 120 Hz, and those overtones should definitely be played by the main speakers correctly located in the room for proper imaging. However, we cannot-I repeat cannot-localize bass below about 80 Hz.

    http://www.axiomaudio.com/bassmanagement.html

    Under crossovers and filters note these words

    in other words, the non-directional parts of the bass below 100 Hz (approximately).

    Under caption 80hz, you have these words

    Why 80 Hz? Because deep bass below that frequency (the aforementioned energy of the bass drum) is not directional;

    Since these comments recite non-directionality as betwee 80-120hz, I cut the difference to 100hz. In most rooms with modes and nodes fully excited, it is terribly difficult to hear any directionality at 120hz, even more so at 100hz, and quite impossible at 80hz.

    If you crossover your subwoofer to your mains at 160hz, then you will need two subs, because you can hear directionality at that frequency. However 160hz is too high of a crossover point unless your speakers are have output deficiencies below 160hz.
    Sir Terrence

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  8. #8
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Sorry Stat, but you are not correct. First I never said anything about midrange being at 100hz, so please do add words which are not there.
    ...acousticians and audio engineers consider frequencies above 100hz as the mid bass, not the midrange.
    Exactly. Last time I checked, both the mid bass and the upper bass were part of - get this - THE BASS. Your sweeping statement: "There is no such thing as stereo bass." is therefore incorrect. Had you qualified your statement as you did in more detail here, you would get agreement. The uppermost octave of THE BASS is most certainly directional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    However 160hz is too high of a crossover point unless your speakers are have output deficiencies below 160hz.
    Or, choice (B), I choose a wider range so that the subs may participate in the room correction via EQ. The last thing I want to do is butcher the sound quality by running mine full range. I've done that before and it wasn't pretty.

    rw

  9. #9
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    So, what about the out of phase signals in each channel below 80Hz (100Hz). Do you perfer let them cancel each other electrically or acoustcally? I run two subs and deal with this acoustically where I have at least a little control over it.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  10. #10
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Exactly. Last time I checked, both the mid bass and the upper bass were part of - get this - THE BASS. Your sweeping statement: "There is no such thing as stereo bass." is therefore incorrect. Had you qualified your statement as you did in more detail here, you would get agreement. The uppermost octave of THE BASS is most certainly directional.
    A) I shouldn'tt need to qualify my statement to cover 40hz versus 120hz of information. This is splitting hairs, and I have no time for that. In most systems, you have no crossover point at 160hz to choose, the highest is 120hz. It is recommended that bass in a bass managed system would be 18-24db down by the time that bass gets to 160hz. I do not have to quantify my statement to accomodate your personal choice, a choice that in over 1000 systems installed and tuned, I have very rarely seen. The very few times I have seen anyone use a crossover point any higher than 100hz, was because their speaker system could not produce bass in amplitudes high enough to keep up with its midrange response. In other words they were bass deficient.


    Or, choice (B), I choose a wider range so that the subs may participate in the room correction via EQ. The last thing I want to do is butcher the sound quality by running mine full range. I've done that before and it wasn't pretty.

    rw
    What you have done is a matter of personal choice, and not a standard rule or practice. For most speaker setups, 160hz is too high a crossover point unless the subs sit right next to the main speakers. Even in sub-sat systems, the highest crossover points are 120hz and not 160hz. If your speakers are located away from walls in a bass managed system, there is no need for a higher crossover point nor eq in the mains. They are already beginning to roll off before any interaction with surfaces occur. Main speakers when properly placed does not excite any of the room modes and have very low interaction with walls and other surfaces, and therefore need little or no correction.
    Sir Terrence

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  11. #11
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Pix isn;t even talking about subwoofers, but his main speakers.

  12. #12
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    A) I shouldn'tt need to qualify my statement to cover 40hz versus 120hz of information.
    Agreed. You do, however, need to avoid attempting to correct people who say that bass is directional because some most certainly is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    In most systems, you have no crossover point at 160hz to choose, the highest is 120hz.
    I'm with aa as you seem to be limiting your discussion to subwoofers. Pix just said "decent pair of speakers". You rarely see the bass crossover in even a three way system to be that low.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I do not have to quantify my statement to accomodate your personal choice, a choice that in over 1000 systems installed and tuned, I have very rarely seen.
    Qualify? No, you just incorrectly assumed there is but one reason. As for me, I think room correction is an important part of every system.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    The very few times I have seen anyone use a crossover point any higher than 100hz, was because their speaker system could not produce bass in amplitudes high enough to keep up with its midrange response.
    Now you've learned something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    What you have done is a matter of personal choice, and not a standard rule or practice. For most speaker setups, 160hz is too high a crossover point unless the subs sit right next to the main speakers. Even in sub-sat systems, the highest crossover points are 120hz and not 160hz.
    Except of course those like mine that offer more choices. Doesn't your pre-pro offer as many choices as my modest NAD receiver?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    If your speakers are located away from walls in a bass managed system, there is no need for a higher crossover point nor eq in the mains.
    Only if you live in a mode-free room. Mine certainly isn't! BTW, What do you do with the M-EQ units?

    rw
    Last edited by E-Stat; 12-14-2009 at 01:46 PM.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    to be continued....

  14. #14
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Agreed. You do, however, need to avoid attempting to correct people who say that bass is directional because some most certainly is.
    That some is not representative of the whole. When the majority of the bass is non directional, it is stupid to quibble over 40hz. When somebody says that bass is directional, they are only speaking of a half octave of bass, while the remaining 3 1/2 octaves ( from 5 to 120hz) are not. Don't you think it is a little trivial to make a point off of half an octave when compared to the remain 31/2?


    I'm with aa as you seem to be limiting your discussion to subwoofers. Pix just said "decent pair of speakers". You rarely see the bass crossover in even a three way system to be that low.
    This is irrespective of whether a subwoofer is included in the equation or not. In most recordings bass is summed into both channels equally to give the system more headroom. In order to perceive any directional information even from two speakers, at 120hz they would have to be spaced more than 9ft apart, at 100hz its 11ft, at 80hz it is 14ft apart. Do you know of any system that spaces their speakers 9ft apart? In most rooms that would put the speakers pretty close to the side walls, and that is not recommended. Besides, even it they were spaced that far apart, our ears are not.


    Qualify? No, you just incorrectly assumed there is but one reason. As for me, I think room correction is an important part of every system.
    I think room correction can be achieved without a high crossover point don't you? Can you tell me why in the hell somebody would use such a high crossover point if a speaker can reach lower?



    Now you've learned something.
    I haven't learned anything, I have been informed that you have an uncommon approach to managing bass in your system.




    Except of course those like mine that offer more choices. Doesn't your pre-pro offer as many choices as my modest NAD receiver?
    It does indeed. But it does not offer a choice of crossover above 120hz because in 95% of the systems out there, it is not needed.



    Only if you live in a mode-free room. Mine certainly isn't! BTW, What do you do with the M-EQ units?

    rw
    Modes are excited by placing a speaker close to the room boundaries, which is a poor place to put a main speaker. Once you move the speakers away from boundaries (which the mains should be) room modes are less excited, and less of a problem. The further away, the less of a problem. Even if you put your speakers in a corner, you would have to be in a high pressure zone in the room to hear it resonating. It is not wise to locate your listening position in a high pressure zone.

    Right now I am not using the M-EQ units, I am using the Audyssey EQ in my pre-pro. They are in my system just in case I need them, and that is when I shut my subs off, and listen in a 5.0 or 7.0 mode. My main speakers don't really need subwoofers as they play bass louder, lower, and cleaner than most subwoofers out there.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 12-14-2009 at 05:28 PM.
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  15. #15
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    So, what about the out of phase signals in each channel below 80Hz (100Hz). Do you perfer let them cancel each other electrically or acoustcally? I run two subs and deal with this acoustically where I have at least a little control over it.
    There are little to no recordings that have out of phase signals below 80hz. It is usually mixed equally into both the main left and right speakers to increase the system's headroom. The wavelengths in frequencies below 80hz are too long for us to perceive any out of phase information. Phase is not detected because of the relative insensitivity of our ears to perceive it, and the distance between our ears is too short to perceive it as well.
    Sir Terrence

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  16. #16
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Pix isn;t even talking about subwoofers, but his main speakers.
    Irrelevant point. The principles remain the same.
    Last edited by Sir Terrence the Terrible; 12-14-2009 at 06:32 PM.
    Sir Terrence

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    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
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  17. #17
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    .........In most recordings bass is summed into both channels equally to give the system more headroom.
    As far as I know, this is only done at the pre/pro or receiver.

    Please help me out here. Explain how they do this with multi track "music" recordings? I've spent some time in the studio twisting knobs (mind you this was years ago) and all we had then was pan pots but we recorded the whole track intact. Do they actually have gear now that separates the lower octaves from the rest of the signal during mix down?
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  18. #18
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    As far as I know, this is only done at the pre/pro or receiver.
    Nope, for music it is done in the mixing stage. For film soundtracks via bass management it is done at the pre-pro level because there could be bass in all of the channels, not quite as loud in the rears, but certainly there.

    Please help me out here. Explain how they do this with multi track "music" recordings? I've spent some time in the studio twisting knobs (mind you this was years ago) and all we had then was pan pots but we recorded the whole track intact. Do they actually have gear now that separates the lower octaves from the rest of the signal during mix down?
    When you lay down a bass track, you simply leave the panning knob at exactly center of the left and right (or neutral) and don't pan it. The signal if reproduced in a two channel system will image center between the speakers above 120hz, or in a 5.1 system it will come from the center speaker if not directed to the subwoofer via bass management. As you should know, with a panning knob (or joystick) the level that is equal between the two channels will come from in between those two channels. In a 5.1, you simply place the signal in the center channel. Not that difficult.
    Sir Terrence

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  19. #19
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    . When you lay down a bass track, you simply leave the panning knob at exactly center of the left and right (or neutral) and don't pan it. The signal if reproduced in a two channel system will image center between the speakers above 120hz, or in a 5.1 system it will come from the center speaker if not directed to the subwoofer via bass management. As you should know, with a panning knob (or joystick) the level that is equal between the two channels will come from in between those two channels. In a 5.1, you simply place the signal in the center channel. Not that difficult.
    Of course this is true but, I have many recordings where for example the piano may be panned left and kettle drums may be panned right. These cancellations is what I'm talking about.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RESPECT (for 249$)-fchart.gif  
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  20. #20
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    That some is not representative of the whole.
    I'll agree once again. Your blanket statement remains incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    When the majority of the bass is non directional, it is stupid to quibble over 40hz.
    Indeed if that were the case, it would be. It is not. Remember saying this?

    "However, we cannot-I repeat cannot-localize bass below about 80 Hz."

    I agree entirely. The difference between 80 hz and 160 hz, however is one full octave or one third of the entire bass range. At the other end of the spectrum, you would be dismissing everything from 10k up using the same criteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    This is irrespective of whether a subwoofer is included in the equation or not.
    Yet for some unknown reason, you found the need to make a comment that applies only to subwoofers.

    "In most systems, you have no crossover point at 160hz to choose, the highest is 120hz. "

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I think room correction can be achieved without a high crossover point don't you?
    My opinion should be very clear by now. I prefer not having any crossovers whatsoever and prefer using room treatments to address the issue, not active correction. In my HT, however, neither the room situation (that WAF thing) nor the equipment provides that luxury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Can you tell me why in the hell somebody would use such a high crossover point if a speaker can reach lower?
    I'll be delighted to repeat the point. I equalize the subs for the most linear response at my listening position for that room. My room requires some EQ as high as 160 hz in order to achieve the most neutral response. Perhaps you would prefer leaving a 2 db response suckout by choosing a lower crossover point. To what benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Modes are excited by placing a speaker close to the room boundaries, which is a poor place to put a main speaker.
    I don't have the luxury in the den to place the speakers where they would sound best as I do with my dedicated listening room. I deal with what I have and use EQ to provide a neutral response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Right now I am not using the M-EQ units, I am using the Audyssey EQ in my pre-pro.
    Ok

    rw

  21. #21
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Pix must be ROFLAO seeing how this thread is going from saying how much he is enjoying his new amp to a discussion on bass
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  22. #22
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Pix must be ROFLAO seeing how this thread is going from saying how much he is enjoying his new amp to a discussion on bass
    Its a great subject for disscussion.
    My beemers go down to around 48 hz, in direct mode they get a straight two channel signal, no crossover, no chickanery with "sound feilds", etc, just two channels the way god intended, thats why he gave us two ears.
    Just saying that my emotiva gets the most outta my mains.
    Which is a pleasant surprize, not that much of a sacrifice to go without a sub.
    I HAVE A NICE ONE, but for pure audio you need tyo pass on the sub.
    I thought the main mprovments would be in the mid/treble area, and they do sound greatly improved, but the bass was just such a pleasant surprize.
    The ad copy about releiving the receiver of the front two channels wasnt just BS, BTW.
    I had to turn down the levels on my surrounds, and a tad on my center.
    Now that my receiver only handles three channels its much happier, and sounds much better.
    And sure below 40hz its hard to figure out where the bass is coming from, but I am talking about 48 hz and up.
    The bass is just better "defined", that would be a better way of putting it I guess.
    Cant beat the price anyway.
    Now for that Mitshu 60" DLP.........
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  23. #23
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    I'll agree once again. Your blanket statement remains incorrect.
    My statement is quite correct, it is only incorrect to support your personal opinion. Bass is not defined as one homogenous region of frequencies like you are trying to present here. Nobody in the audio press, or science has termed bass frequencies as 20-160hz. They have split it into smaller pieces. This is supported by the links I have previously posted. Bass frequencies have been defined as 20-120hz for as long as I can remember. 120-160hz is referred to mid bass or lower midrange. It has been defined that way on every AES document I have ever read on the issues of acoustics and bass management.


    Indeed if that were the case, it would be. It is not. Remember saying this?

    "However, we cannot-I repeat cannot-localize bass below about 80 Hz."

    I agree entirely. The difference between 80 hz and 160 hz, however is one full octave or one third of the entire bass range. At the other end of the spectrum, you would be dismissing everything from 10k up using the same criteria.
    You statement does not hold up well against white papers done on the subject. The bass between 80-120hz CANNOT be included in this statement based on Tom Nousaine white paper on stereo bass. Room reflections dominate's all of the output from 20-120hz, which prevent our ears from clearly hearing any dominance of out of phase information at these frequencies, UNLESS they are produced by a single sub woofer in a corner. Since we are taking sub woofers out of the equation, your theory on 80-160hz stereo bass fails. In his study, listeners were clearly able to ascertain stereo content from 120hz up where wavelengths become smaller, and closer to the distance between our two ears. So your argument is really based on the frequencies between 120-160hz, which is a half octave. That is a petty argument IMO when your consider that bass from 5-120hz is truly non-directional. You are at best majoring in minors. In the future, please do not assume that I am dismissing anything until I state it.


    Yet for some unknown reason, you found the need to make a comment that applies only to subwoofers.

    "In most systems, you have no crossover point at 160hz to choose, the highest is 120hz. "
    I know of no full range loudspeaker that has a crossover point at 160hz to any driver, do you? Even my 4 way full range loudspeaker crossover from the built in subwoofer section is done at 80hz. So my point still stands as true. If you think I am wrong, name a few loudspeaker with a driver transition point at 160hz, and I'll admit I am wrong. When you are speaking of sub-sat system, the highest crossover point that can usually be found is 120hz. With full range system, the crossover point is either lower, or much higher than 160hz.


    My opinion should be very clear by now. I prefer not having any crossovers whatsoever and prefer using room treatments to address the issue, not active correction. In my HT, however, neither the room situation (that WAF thing) nor the equipment provides that luxury.
    Okay, so you panel system uses no crossovers, and you use room treatments to correct acoustical problems. Well, it is pretty well understood that acoustical treatment is not very effective below 70hz, and the amount that has to be deployed to deal with frequencies above that to 200hz will negatively reduce the amount energy in the midrange and high frequencies in the room. All that tells me is that you cured one problem and created another. There is such a thing as over treating a room even without having a lot of panels. The conventional and well tested method of dealing with acoustical issues is to use room treatments to deal with frequencies above 200hz where they are most effective, and use listening seat placement and EQ for frequencies below that.

    I'll be delighted to repeat the point. I equalize the subs for the most linear response at my listening position for that room. My room requires some EQ as high as 160 hz in order to achieve the most neutral response. Perhaps you would prefer leaving a 2 db response suckout by choosing a lower crossover point. To what benefit?
    Using EQ to treat a suckout is not very bright. And to answer your question, yes I would. Trying to EQ out a suckout will reduce the headroom of the system itself. It is widely understood that you do not use EQ to treat room suckout for that very reason. A 2db suckout is completely inaudible (which explains the name), and as long as it is not a broadband suckout, I would just leave it alone. So yes, I would have left the suckout in favor of a lower crossover point. Subwoofers are not the best speakers for reproducing frequencies above 120hz or so.


    I don't have the luxury in the den to place the speakers where they would sound best as I do with my dedicated listening room. I deal with what I have and use EQ to provide a neutral response.
    rw
    Perfectly understandable.
    Sir Terrence

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  24. #24
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Its a great subject for disscussion.
    My beemers go down to around 48 hz, in direct mode they get a straight two channel signal, no crossover, no chickanery with "sound feilds", etc, just two channels the way god intended, thats why he gave us two ears.
    Just saying that my emotiva gets the most outta my mains.
    Which is a pleasant surprize, not that much of a sacrifice to go without a sub.
    I HAVE A NICE ONE, but for pure audio you need tyo pass on the sub.
    I thought the main mprovments would be in the mid/treble area, and they do sound greatly improved, but the bass was just such a pleasant surprize.
    The ad copy about releiving the receiver of the front two channels wasnt just BS, BTW.
    I had to turn down the levels on my surrounds, and a tad on my center.
    Now that my receiver only handles three channels its much happier, and sounds much better.
    And sure below 40hz its hard to figure out where the bass is coming from, but I am talking about 48 hz and up.
    The bass is just better "defined", that would be a better way of putting it I guess.
    Cant beat the price anyway.
    Now for that Mitshu 60" DLP.........
    At 48hz and up, you are still wrong. Now change that to 120hz and up, then we can agree.
    Sir Terrence

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  25. #25
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Bass is not defined as one homogenous region of frequencies like you are trying to present here.
    LOL! Whatever you say! Who said anything about "homogenous"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    The bass between 80-120hz CANNOT be included in this statement based on Tom Nousaine white paper on stereo bass.
    Mr. Car Stereo? Great expert!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I know of no full range loudspeaker that has a crossover point at 160hz to any driver, do you?
    Is there an echo in the room? That was my (unanswered) question to you in post # 12 when you said the "highest crossover point is 120 hz"! They're usually much higher!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Well, it is pretty well understood that acoustical treatment is not very effective below 70hz, and the amount that has to be deployed to deal with frequencies above that to 200hz will negatively reduce the amount energy in the midrange and high frequencies in the room.
    By whom? Mr. Car Stereo again? Obviously you've never heard a Rives Audio designed room or one using any number of commercial products.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    And to answer your question, yes I would. Trying to EQ out a suckout will reduce the headroom of the system itself.
    That is your preference and I have plenty of headroom. At the expense of stating the obvious, the use of any tone control or EQ boost will do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    A 2db suckout is completely inaudible ...
    You really cannot hear a 2 db difference in level? Then it wouldn't matter to you.

    End of transmission. You have the last word. Still shaking my head. "Bass is not a range of frequencies" Ok!

    rw

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