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  1. #101
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Maybe you should get a better sub....just sayin.
    WHY?
    i have a five hundred dollar VELO, its fine for HT, which is all I USE A sub FOR.
    The most musical sub I have ever had was a B&W asw . BUT MOSTLY I have
    never used a sub much for music, prefer two full range speakers for that.
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  2. #102
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    WHY?
    i have a five hundred dollar VELO, its fine for HT, which is all I USE A sub FOR.
    The most musical sub I have ever had was a B&W asw . BUT MOSTLY I have
    never used a sub much for music, prefer two full range speakers for that.
    The problem with this response is that you don't have full range speakers. A 48hz bottom limit with no tolerance is not considered full range when the lowest note on a bass guitar is 42hz, and there are bass drums and synthesizer notes that extend below that. A full range speaker is flat to at least 40hz, and an extended range speaker is flat to 20hz. The lowest note on the piano is 27hz, which is well below what your speakers can reproduce. You really need a good sub to fill out the bottom octaves of the musical scale, especially with a 48hz roll off point of your mains.
    Sir Terrence

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  3. #103
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Most subs are not set up right. There are the one note wonders as mentioned above. Then even when someone has a nice sub, they tend to keep turning it up too high. It's easy to become a bass-head with a powerful sub. But to me, a sub should be felt, not heard.
    I agree with you. If you can hear that a sub is on and working it's probably turned up too high. Audyssey a BFD or something equivalent does wonders in setting up and calibrating a sub. Ideally you should hear something missing when you turn the sub off.

    I have two 7 1/2 foot tall 12" diameter PVC (sewer pipe) tubes for my TL subs. First time guests almost always ask what they are. When told they are sub woofers they usually ask why aren't they on. Then, while playing some music and in the middle of a selection I turn them off. Everyone without exception notices the difference.

    BTW: Several years ago when I first built them I did a lot of experimenting with different crossover points. At around 100Hz they stopped being directional to me. I used 80Hz to make sure they would never be directional.

    A BFD is at the top of my gadgets to have list. Until then I'm using REW and my trusty Rat Shack SPL meter to dial in my subs.
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  4. #104
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9

    A BFD is at the top of my gadgets to have list. Until then I'm using REW and my trusty Rat Shack SPL meter to dial in my subs.
    By doing that you're not correcting your subs' response are you?

  5. #105
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I agree with you. If you can hear that a sub is on and working it's probably turned up too high. Audyssey a BFD or something equivalent does wonders in setting up and calibrating a sub. Ideally you should hear something missing when you turn the sub off.
    I agree to agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I have two 7 1/2 foot tall 12" diameter PVC (sewer pipe) tubes for my TL subs. First time guests almost always ask what they are. When told they are sub woofers they usually ask why aren't they on. Then, while playing some music and in the middle of a selection I turn them off. Everyone without exception notices the difference.
    I’d love to see those! Got any pics to share?


    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    A BFD is at the top of my gadgets to have list. Until then I'm using REW and my trusty Rat Shack SPL meter to dial in my subs.
    What does the REW do? I remember people talking about them but don’t recall their function. Is that just test tones of some kind?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  6. #106
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    REW is a free software which allows you to model the FR of your subwoofer, using a mic and your computer's sound card (if i'm not mistaken).

  7. #107
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    REW is a free software which allows you to model the FR of your subwoofer, using a mic and your computer's sound card (if i'm not mistaken).
    Oh... Room Eq Wizard. Duh....

    Thanks. My mind is still in slow motion today.

    I don't have a laptop (ironic that I buy & sell laptop parts) so I never used it. I've read that it's a great tool to use with the BFD to make your response perfect, instead of just pretty good.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  8. #108
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Oh... Room Eq Wizard. Duh....

    Thanks. My mind is still in slow motion today.

    I don't have a laptop (ironic that I buy & sell laptop parts) so I never used it. I've read that it's a great tool to use with the BFD to make your response perfect, instead of just pretty good.
    No problem. I need to get me one of those BFD.... first. Have you sorted your Maelstrom yet?
    I just finished a DIY sub a couple weeks ago, I need to get cracking on a thread + pics...

  9. #109
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    No problem. I need to get me one of those BFD.... first. Have you sorted your Maelstrom yet?
    I just finished a DIY sub a couple weeks ago, I need to get cracking on a thread + pics...
    I took readings and then made the adjustments that I thought would work. Then my Rat Shack meter sh.t the bed, so I don't know for sure how well I did. It sure seems to work great though.

    Finished a sub?! Dude, you are supposed to start the thread when you start the DIY.
    So spill it. What are you using for a driver, amp etc...?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  10. #110
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    I took readings and then made the adjustments that I thought would work. Then my Rat Shack meter sh.t the bed, so I don't know for sure how well I did. It sure seems to work great though.
    Shame, fortunately they arent expensive. Take it apart maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Finished a sub?! Dude, you are supposed to start the thread when you start the DIY.
    So spill it. What are you using for a driver, amp etc...?
    I'll just say that it's not quite as obscene as yours

    I'll try starting the thread this w-e

  11. #111
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Shame, fortunately they arent expensive. Take it apart maybe?
    Maybe. At this point, I'm still mad at it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I'll just say that it's not quite as obscene as yours
    Mine is not obscene. Take a look at a few of the other DIY threads at AVS or HT Shack. One guy built a sub with 4 - 21" drivers and 8 - 21" passive radiators. I think he used 4 - EP4000's to drive them. (Or was it the Crowns?) I don't remember. But that's obscene. His house must breath in and out when he's got those on.

    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I'll try starting the thread this w-e
    Looking forward to it.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  12. #112
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    By doing that you're not correcting your subs' response are you?
    Only as much as placement can do. I am using the Pass supplied active eq to flatten the extreme low end. A BFD is next in line for gadgets to buy. I'm looking forward to hearing what the BFD can do.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
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    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  13. #113
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    The problem with this response is that you don't have full range speakers. A 48hz bottom limit with no tolerance is not considered full range when the lowest note on a bass guitar is 42hz, and there are bass drums and synthesizer notes that extend below that. A full range speaker is flat to at least 40hz, and an extended range speaker is flat to 20hz. The lowest note on the piano is 27hz, which is well below what your speakers can reproduce. You really need a good sub to fill out the bottom octaves of the musical scale, especially with a 48hz roll off point of your mains.
    Too many compromises, the 48 hz or so my speakers go to is fine until I can get new ones.
    Besides, I LIKE MY MUSIC loud, which works out better without a sub.
    When they started making sub-sat systems it was generally agreed that no matter how precise you get everything lined up, a classic two speaker system is superior to a
    sub-sat system, even if the bottom end is not as low.
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
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  14. #114
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    Too many compromises, the 48 hz or so my speakers go to is fine until I can get new ones.
    Besides, I LIKE MY MUSIC loud, which works out better without a sub.
    When they started making sub-sat systems it was generally agreed that no matter how precise you get everything lined up, a classic two speaker system is superior to a
    sub-sat system, even if the bottom end is not as low.
    Turn your sub down and try again.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  15. #115
    Forum Regular pixelthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Turn your sub down and try again.
    I did, and was surprized at how good the sound was.
    MY SUB IS NICELY SET UP(Audyssey) but ABing between direct (no sub) and stereo, and
    I just prefer the sound without a floorshaker. In other words, only thing I want a lot of
    "bottom" end on is movies and women.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    LG 42", integra 6.9, B&W 602s2, CC6 center, dm305rears, b&w
    sub asw2500
    Panny DVDA player
    sharp Aquos BLU player
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  16. #116
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelthis
    I did, and was surprized at how good the sound was.
    MY SUB IS NICELY SET UP(Audyssey) but ABing between direct (no sub) and stereo, and
    I just prefer the sound without a floorshaker. In other words, only thing I want a lot of
    "bottom" end on is movies and women.
    We all enjoy what we enjoy.

    Not for nuttin', but that pic isn't of her bottom end.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

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