'Tis better to have loved Lost than never to have loved at all....

[ForeverAutumn]

On the plus side, I have lots of TV time for the next few days though. 37 hours and counting...

Ah hah! So I'm not the only one who celebrates an illness for the TV time that it provides.

You know, because I do obsess over this show and think about it all week long, it occured to me last night that S3 started in the same way as S2. Not just the opening of the eye, but the whole insight into a new world...

S2 opened with us watching Desmond in the hatch. Only we didn't yet understand what we were seeing. A guy wakes up, has breakfast, works out, showers, shaves. A rumble. The record skips. What's that? Oh, we're watching the hatch. There's a guy in the hatch!!!

S3 opens with us watching the book club meeting. Everything looks normal. A group of people sitting around, drinking, eating, discussing. A rumble. An earthquake? It's over, run outside. Nice neighbourhood. What's that? A plane breaking up in the sky? Oh, we're watching the Others. It's Othersville on the island!!!

[kexodusc]

Kex,

What will be next? Broken finger, collapsed lung, almost broken rib, etc. Will we have to wrap you up with nurf turf? Soon the snow will be falling and you'll be flying off that new toy you got last season. Should we call your local hospital to warn them in advance?

Glad you're OK. But please be more careful.

Bah...My hand fractures healed so fast and the finger moves almost 100% again (but is a wee bit crooked) - doctors say I have the resiliency of 10 year old boy.
(in Mr. Burns voice)
So I'm invincible....Invincible.

You're right, the snow can't come fast enough - but enough OT about me...who d'y'all suppose that kid in the cages with Sawyer was? Anyone important? Another survivor?

[Kam]

Bah...My hand fractures healed so fast and the finger moves almost 100% again (but is a wee bit crooked) - doctors say I have the resiliency of 10 year old boy.
(in Mr. Burns voice)
So I'm invincible....Invincible.

You're right, the snow can't come fast enough - but enough OT about me...who d'y'all suppose that kid in the cages with Sawyer was? Anyone important? Another survivor?

sorry to hear about the injury, but glad its given you tv time!!

i think the Others have done enough 'cry wolves' now that the losties don't know who to trust, which is prolly the whole point in the first place. So i think the kid might actually be another lostie brought to the island. i kind of got a mathew-broderick-from-ladyhawke feeling to his character and that this wasnt the first time he had escaped from the Others.... then again, it could just be another Other again who they are trying to ingratiate with Sawyer.

And... to dive deeper into the nuttiness... we saw where Othersville was and how far the planes crashed apart from each other (wasn't it about a 2 day trek through the forest to get from the Tailies to the Losties?) Yet Benry asked Goodwin if he could get to the Tailies in an hour!?? Goodwin is either a worldclass runner or they have some other system of getting around the island. And... if anyone is good with distances, can you guesstimate the size of the island we've seen so far. It appears to be rather HUGE???

It seems that its at least the size of one of the hawaiin islands and it has settlements on it visible from any sattelite... and yet Desmond's sugarmomma had no idea where this island was until that electromagnetic whatever release of energy from the 'incidents' occurred. and if his sugarmomma is being that nitpicky looking for any occurance like that, you'd figured they'd have scanned any islands with satellites... so why didn't they see Othersville?

in the words of hugo (who better show up in the next episode!): where are we?

[ForeverAutumn]

in the words of hugo (who better show up in the next episode!): where are we?

That was actually Charlie who said that.

Goodwin showed up in the jungle pretty quickly after the crash. But when exactly did Ethan appear? The Fusies were on the island for quite a while before Hurley took his little census. So maybe the tail crashed near Othersville, but the fuselage was a couple of days hike.

My theory is that the magnet in the Swan station was emitting some sort of shield that hid the island from radar and satellites. It was in place to protect the location of the experiments from being discovered. Once Locke let the clock countdown, something happened to the shield so that the guys in the Antarctic station finally saw the location, hence their call to Ms. Widmore with the message "we found it".

Edit: If you're interested in a sneak preview of Wednesday's episode go here, http://lost.cubit.net/. About halfway down the page you can watch a clip from tomorrow's show.

[ForeverAutumn]

And... to dive deeper into the nuttiness... we saw where Othersville was and how far the planes crashed apart from each other (wasn't it about a 2 day trek through the forest to get from the Tailies to the Losties?) Yet Benry asked Goodwin if he could get to the Tailies in an hour!?? Goodwin is either a worldclass runner or they have some other system of getting around the island.

Have we all become so jaded by this show that we just accept, without questioning, that Benry knew where the two pieces of the plane would land and that there would be survivors???

[Kam]

Have we all become so jaded by this show that we just accept, without questioning, that Benry knew where the two pieces of the plane would land and that there would be survivors???

well... he did guestimate, didnt he say "goodwin, did you see where the tail section was headed...?" nod "get there in an hour blah blah infiltrate, observe, blah blah"

and just how cool was it with the precision he was taking control, like a general barking out orders and goodwin and ethan just jumped to him, hanging on his every command and immediately obeying him like soldiers would... hey... speaking of... goodwin's knife that ana lucia looked at... she said it was army issue from over 20 years ago or something like that right? and benry has a "command" of his "troops" and runs whatever it is they are doing just like a covert op..... hmmm.... the lil' hamster is running fast, that wheel is turning in my mind....

[Groundbeef]

Bah...My hand fractures healed so fast and the finger moves almost 100% again (but is a wee bit crooked) - doctors say I have the resiliency of 10 year old boy.
(in Mr. Burns voice)
So I'm invincible....Invincible.

Actually, we have all suspected it, but never been able to pin it down. Your last statement proves that you are actually somewhere on the island. Serious injury, complete with rapid healing "of a 10 year old". Doctors shocked that you didn't break ribs, but collapsed your lung. (Your ribs probably healed on the way to the "hospital" aka Lockes lame legs healing.)

We just want to know how you have gotten internet access on the island......or are you one of the others?.......hmmmmmm

[kexodusc]

Actually, we have all suspected it, but never been able to pin it down. Your last statement proves that you are actually somewhere on the island. Serious injury, complete with rapid healing "of a 10 year old". Doctors shocked that you didn't break ribs, but collapsed your lung. (Your ribs probably healed on the way to the "hospital" aka Lockes lame legs healing.)

We just want to know how you have gotten internet access on the island......or are you one of the others?.......hmmmmmm

WHO TOLD YO-...Oh...uh...you're just kiddin' around...ha ha ...good one Beefy...

[ForeverAutumn]

Okay, just collecting my thoughts here.

So Sun shot Benry's new girlfriend. That should make for interesting TV later. How will Sun react to shooting someone once the shock wears off and she's back on the beach (assuming they make it back to the beach)? How will Benry react when he finds out that Colleen (was that her name?) has been shot? How will Juliet respond?

Juliet seemed all nicey, nicey. Playing sympathetic to Jack, and giving Sawyer water. But she looked pretty hard core holding a gun to Kate. I think that Kam is right. They know what their jobs are and how to do them.

Has Benry really spent his entire life on the island? He looks to be in his 40's. If that's true then he's been there long before the Dharma Orientation tapes were made. They were dated 1980 I think.

And didn't you just love Jack's reaction to the Red Sox winning the world series. That may just be my favourite scene yet. I love the sense of humour that these writers have!

[kexodusc]

Starting to sound like the Others are the descendants of Dharma, isn't it. Maybe still some big experiment being observed from the outside by that woman who's in the know - they obviously have contact with the outside world. Kind of like Walt Disney's vision for EPCOT - minus the cool golf ball dome - that maybe just got sidetracked by all the weird sh-- that goes on.

I see Juliet being the key to Jack, Sawyer, and Kate getting out of the island on account of the blatantly obvious conflict between her and Benry.

Keep forgetting we're in November 2004 still. Patriots are about to repeat too. Brad and Jen are a sure bet thing and people still like Mel Gibson. Man, this show is weird.

[Kam]

there was something just a leeeeetle bit too smooth about that whole exchange with the world series thing.... my spidey sense is tingling and i will go on record (yes! that's right, the first wild idea of season 3) to say:
they are not in 2004. hugo's ever-so-humorous side comment to sayid upon picking up that radio wave about "when" are they over where are they is key. i may be wrong... BUT... lest everyone forget and allow me to bask in my 1-1353 theory record... i DID say benry was the head other!!

[kexodusc]

Well stranger things could happen, Kam. Maybe they're in 2002 instead. I just don't think Benry was lying to Jack about the time period.

Aren't we all missing something here - was it just me, or were there other people in the Othersville labor camp? Where'd they come from? Are they survivors of a different sort? And what's with the guy and girl talking to Sawyer and Kate? Spies?

I'm starting to think that the Others aren't so bad, really - I can't recall, but I don't think Ethan and Goodwin were just trying to bring the prime candidates from the Tail and Fuselage (kids, Claire, Anna Lucia, etc) to Othersville for whatever reason - they only got aggressive when they were being followed or discovered, and didn't just kill for sport or anything. They didn't kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc when Tom/Zeke took their guns etc. They just wanted to be left alone, ie, on their side of the island.

Maybe Jack and the gang should just go along for the ride until Benry sends them home...

[ForeverAutumn]

Well stranger things could happen, Kam. Maybe they're in 2002 instead. I just don't think Benry was lying to Jack about the time period.

I agree with kex here. We know when the plane left Sydney and we know how many days they've been on the island. The writers made sure to bring that back into perspective when Benry gave us the date of November 29, 2004.

Aren't we all missing something here - was it just me, or were there other people in the Othersville labor camp? Where'd they come from? Are they survivors of a different sort? And what's with the guy and girl talking to Sawyer and Kate? Spies?

Wasn't the girl talking to Kate, Alex? I haven't a clue who Karl is though. At first I thought that the other prisoners could be from the tail section. But, according to Goodwin, they were taken because they were good. The Others seem to be all about Good People and Bad People. So, would they make the good tailies work like that? The whole labour camp could just be another sham. We know that the Others are good at setting up fake situations. Why would they have Sawyer and Kate breaking and moving rocks anyway? It doesn't make sense. This isn't what it seems.

I'm starting to think that the Others aren't so bad, really - I can't recall, but I don't think Ethan and Goodwin were just trying to bring the prime candidates from the Tail and Fuselage (kids, Claire, Anna Lucia, etc) to Othersville for whatever reason - they only got aggressive when they were being followed or discovered, and didn't just kill for sport or anything. They didn't kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc when Tom/Zeke took their guns etc. They just wanted to be left alone, ie, on their side of the island.

Again, I'm in agreement with you. I found Colleen's (?) comment to Sun interesting. She said that contrary to what Sun believes, they weren't her enemy. But if Sun shot her, that would all change. I think that the Others have a very strange sense of morality bred from years of being alone on the island and having to create their own rules for survival. i.e. You're a good person unless you fire that gun. But we're good people even though we've kidnapped some of you under cover of the night, and left Charlie for dead, and almost killed Claire to steal her baby, etc.

Maybe Jack and the gang should just go along for the ride until Benry sends them home...

Well that would make the show pretty boring.

I can't wait until next week to find out what Benry's offer to Jack is. Unfortunately, I'm out of town on business next Wednesday night and I may not be back at my hotel by 9:00 to watch it.

[Kam]

Well stranger things could happen, Kam. Maybe they're in 2002 instead. I just don't think Benry was lying to Jack about the time period.

Aren't we all missing something here - was it just me, or were there other people in the Othersville labor camp? Where'd they come from? Are they survivors of a different sort? And what's with the guy and girl talking to Sawyer and Kate? Spies?

I'm starting to think that the Others aren't so bad, really - I can't recall, but I don't think Ethan and Goodwin were just trying to bring the prime candidates from the Tail and Fuselage (kids, Claire, Anna Lucia, etc) to Othersville for whatever reason - they only got aggressive when they were being followed or discovered, and didn't just kill for sport or anything. They didn't kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc when Tom/Zeke took their guns etc. They just wanted to be left alone, ie, on their side of the island.

Maybe Jack and the gang should just go along for the ride until Benry sends them home...

no, didnt mean that they're back in time, but that something with time is going on. yes, the time they've spent on the island has been 69 consecutive days, but i dont think they landed there in 2004. i think there's some time issue and they might be in 3004 for all we know, but definitely not in the same time on that island as we have "out here".

I think the 'incidents' are breaches in "whenever" they are back to our time in 2004 and that's what Desmond's Sugarmomma has those guys in antarctica looking for, any sign of another incident to help pinpoint not just where they are, but WHEN they are. she's spent millions or billions searching for desmond for the past 3 years from 2001-2004 and cant find him, because he's not there. very bermuda-triangle like. so whenever an incident happens on the island and threatens to unravel their entire existence, it sucks in something from our world and pulls it into the island ala Locke's comment way back when. "the island brought us here."

then we have the supernatural issues going on ala Walt showing up all watery and Ms. Clue(??) and the voices all of which has kinda taken a backseat since Walt has taken off to where (or when)ever.

i know i know... its one of the more hokey one of my theories, but i'm stickin' with it!!

and on a side note, if Benry doesn't get an Emmy for his work, that's just ludicrous. he is un-freakin-believably good!!!

[Kam]

I
Wasn't the girl talking to Kate, Alex? I haven't a clue who Karl is though. At first I thought that the other prisoners could be from the tail section. But, according to Goodwin, they were taken because they were good. The Others seem to be all about Good People and Bad People. So, would they make the good tailies work like that? The whole labour camp could just be another sham. We know that the Others are good at setting up fake situations. Why would they have Sawyer and Kate breaking and moving rocks anyway? It doesn't make sense. This isn't what it seems.

i didn't think that was alex, but it was tough to tell. i thought by "karl" she was referring to the kid that was in the cage opposite sawyer who tried the 'escape' or whatever it was. the labor camp thing didn't make ANY sense at all. were those just other "Others" playing a part in the whole charade to make kate and sawyer complicit in something. it's awesome in that you really have no idea what to believe and not believe, who is one of the "Others" and may be a captive of theirs. and if they are breaking up rocks for a reason... then that means they are building something... what could that be???

[kexodusc]

Okay, you could be on to something here Kamster.

If you think back to some of the Season 1 clues and Benry's behavior early, it does seem like everyone on the island before the Losties is "waiting" for something. Maybe Flight 815 was lost out of time somehow like that plane in Stephen King's Langoliers. Maybe it got sucked from 2004 to the Future. Maybe that's how Benry and the others "know" so much about the losties, they're in the future, and know the flight was deemed lost back in 2004, so all they did was some research on the casualty names from the flight list and pulled up some vital statistics.
Benry seems to be afraid of "He" whoever that is, and Desmond asked Locke "Are you Him?"....So maybe someone else from the past is coming - or could already be there...
The Nov. 29 date that Benry claimed muddies it up a bit, but we can work on that...

Ya keep throwing darts, one of them's bound to stick?

[kexodusc]

anyone do that connections thingy on the Lost webpage? Some of the connections between characters were very subtle and I missed or forgot - like Sayid's torture instructor was Desmond's hatch buddy...etc...
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/connections/index

[Kam]

Okay, you could be on to something here Kamster.

If you think back to some of the Season 1 clues and Benry's behavior early, it does seem like everyone on the island before the Losties is "waiting" for something. Maybe Flight 815 was lost out of time somehow like that plane in Stephen King's Langoliers. Maybe it got sucked from 2004 to the Future. Maybe that's how Benry and the others "know" so much about the losties, they're in the future, and know the flight was deemed lost back in 2004, so all they did was some research on the casualty names from the flight list and pulled up some vital statistics.
Benry seems to be afraid of "He" whoever that is, and Desmond asked Locke "Are you Him?"....So maybe someone else from the past is coming - or could already be there...
The Nov. 29 date that Benry claimed muddies it up a bit, but we can work on that...

Ya keep throwing darts, one of them's bound to stick?

this could make sense with their files and everything and especially when given their reaction to seieng the plane at the beginning of Season 3. There wasn't much shock AT ALL on their faces, as if they knew it was coming, just a matter of when. Which would make sense if they are looking back and they know that Flight 815 dissapeared on (what was the date 69 days prior to november 29, 2004) but they didn't know when it would appear on THEIR timeline until the next incident occurred. When it occurred, they knew.... "ok, according to the losties, it's this date in 2004.... so this is what they do and don't know about the world" ala the boston red sox revelation to jack.

AND one of the more important quotes from benry to jack was that whole...
If you can get off this island at any time, why dont you?
Exactly jack, WHY?

um..... yeah, that's what he asked!!! we wanted an answer galled-darnit!!!!

[ForeverAutumn]

i didn't think that was alex, but it was tough to tell. i thought by "karl" she was referring to the kid that was in the cage opposite sawyer who tried the 'escape' or whatever it was. the labor camp thing didn't make ANY sense at all. were those just other "Others" playing a part in the whole charade to make kate and sawyer complicit in something. it's awesome in that you really have no idea what to believe and not believe, who is one of the "Others" and may be a captive of theirs. and if they are breaking up rocks for a reason... then that means they are building something... what could that be???

I didn't mean "who's Karl" in the sense that I didn't recognize the name. I meant "who's Karl" in the sense that is he a real prisoner or a plant?

As for the breaking rocks, I wonder if it's all just to exhaust Kate and Sawyer to break their spirit. The Others want to make them too tired, both physically and mentally, to fight back.

[ForeverAutumn]

Okay, you want to theorize about the whole Lost In Time idea? Sit yourselves down and make yourselves comfortable. Here's my theory. The seeds were planted last night and you've forced me to think through the rest of it today.

My theory started with the commercial for the show that will be replacing Lost for the 12 week hiatus. The show is called Day Break, and from what I can tell it's a dark version of the movie Groundhog Day. Some guy wakes up and has a bad day where the woman he loves get shot. Every day he wakes up to the same day again. And every day he does something different to try and find a different outcome. i.e. the women he loves doesn't get shot.

So, what if Lost is working on the same premise? What if Benry and his crew know the future because they've seen it before? They rescue the good people and send them home. But the bad people have to stay on the island until they've changed sufficiently that The Others feel comfortable putting them back in the world, back in the past, before they've done the bad things that they've done.

If they break Kate and Sawyer's spirits, teach them what its like to be victimized, maybe they can change Kate and Sawyer's attitutes towards life and help them to appreciate that other people's lives are valuable. They can have a second chance at their lives, but only if they are able to return to the past and be "good". Kate doesn't kill anyone and Sawyer doesn't con or kill anyone.

The psychic that Claire went to see was convinced that Claire had to raise her baby. What if he was part of The Others and knew that once before, Claire gave up her baby and he grew up to be a serial killer because he felt deserted by his mother. So Claire ends up on the island where she gives birth to Aaron and loves him and will never give him up. Eventually, Claire will return to her life with her baby in order to save all the lives that the serial killer took.

Jack is already experiencing regrets for the way that he treated his father and his wife. He's already a changed man. That's why Benry is willing to make him an offer (we just don't know what yet) and send him home. He'll wake up back in his bed at home, in the past with his father at work and his wife at home and treat them both with respect and change the outcome of their lives.

As for the people who died on the island, either they're not really dead and this is how The Others can save people and return them to their lives without raising suspicion, or they are really dead because the world is better off if they never return.

Obviously, I'm making up the details, but do you see where I'm going with this?

[Kam]

Okay, you want to theorize about the whole Lost In Time idea? Sit yourselves down and make yourselves comfortable. Here's my theory. The seeds were planted last night and you've forced me to think through the rest of it today.

My theory started with the commercial for the show that will be replacing Lost for the 12 week hiatus. The show is called Day Break, and from what I can tell it's a dark version of the movie Groundhog Day. Some guy wakes up and has a bad day where the woman he loves get shot. Every day he wakes up to the same day again. And every day he does something different to try and find a different outcome. i.e. the women he loves doesn't get shot.

So, what if Lost is working on the same premise? What if Benry and his crew know the future because they've seen it before? They rescue the good people and send them home. But the bad people have to stay on the island until they've changed sufficiently that The Others feel comfortable putting them back in the world, back in the past, before they've done the bad things that they've done.

If they break Kate and Sawyer's spirits, teach them what its like to be victimized, maybe they can change Kate and Sawyer's attitutes towards life and help them to appreciate that other people's lives are valuable. They can have a second chance at their lives, but only if they are able to return to the past and be "good". Kate doesn't kill anyone and Sawyer doesn't con or kill anyone.

The psychic that Claire went to see was convinced that Claire had to raise her baby. What if he was part of The Others and knew that once before, Claire gave up her baby and he grew up to be a serial killer because he felt deserted by his mother. So Claire ends up on the island where she gives birth to Aaron and loves him and will never give him up. Eventually, Claire will return to her life with her baby in order to save all the lives that the serial killer took.

Jack is already experiencing regrets for the way that he treated his father and his wife. He's already a changed man. That's why Benry is willing to make him an offer (we just don't know what yet) and send him home. He'll wake up back in his bed at home, in the past with his father at work and his wife at home and treat them both with respect and change the outcome of their lives.

As for the people who died on the island, either they're not really dead and this is how The Others can save people and return them to their lives without raising suspicion, or they are really dead because the world is better off if they never return.

Obviously, I'm making up the details, but do you see where I'm going with this?

me gusta. i like that. and it would make sense why no one is telling anyone anything, because unless you do have a secret that is going to save the world, it would make logical sense to say: "oh btw... so this is what's going on because i'm sure you're wondering what the hell is happening."
unless the not-knowing part is crucial to the saving the world part. plus, i know it was nice lil funny moment, but hugo's line to sayid when they're listening to the radio... the "when are we" line always stuck with me too.
And I always got the impression from those scenes with the pyschic that claire's baby was gonna be the anti-christ or something melodramatic like that, so the whole Island thing was bringing the kid and clair there and everyone connected to them to avoid the end of the world type deal, but i like your idea better that the kid would be a serial killer and this is preventing all those deaths from happening, very Dead Zone like.

[ForeverAutumn]

...very Dead Zone like.

Oooh. Another Stephen King reference.

Of course, this doesn't explain Polar Bears, or the numbers, or black fog, or the magnetic field, or the Antarctic Station, or any of that other stuff.

[Groundbeef]

There is a pretty extended interview on abcnews.com on Lost today. Here is the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2553741&page=1

Pretty interesting. More on methodology, not really any spoilers or plot developments.

[Kam]

There is a pretty extended interview on abcnews.com on Lost today. Here is the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2553741&page=1

Pretty interesting. More on methodology, not really any spoilers or plot developments.

good read. i keep wondering what it'd be like if they had killed off jack at the end of that first hour... where the heck would it have gone? (as if we didnt have enough questions!!)

[kexodusc]

I love this quote:

"Yes, our goal is if we can't end spectacularly at least we'll fail spectacularly. Nobody wants to go out with a fizzle."

A few subtle hints - like I suggested last week, they imply we'll learn more about the Others, and that maybe they're not so bad afterall. Not killing anyone yet and such (though the Charlie hanging was pretty close).

I love it when the creators are having fun and enjoying themselves - when they get too serious and try to be too "deep", that's when problems start.