Speaker Wire Developments in last 10 years? Need advice.

[airblue23]

Obviously a noivice hear - Dynaudio Audience with Marantz AV Receiver for HT use only.

The last time i upgraded my speaker wire was 10 years ago - bought an "upgraded" caliber speaker wire that was about twice the guage on the recommnedation of the salesman at the time. Who knows if it was worth it.

Has anything come out that warrants ditching the old speaker wires that worth investing more money than i already have?

[blackraven]

Stick with your speaker wire if its in good shape. If not consider some wire from Blue Jeans Cable -- Quality Cables at Reasonable Prices Their 10-14g speaker wire is a great buy if you buy it unterminated and apply the spades or Banana plugs yourself.

[JohnMichael]

To my ears solid core cables are superior to stranded cables. Check out AntiCables and Audioquest since they both offer affordable cables using solid core wires. Solid Core cables are more focused and do not have the fuzzy strand interaction that bothers me with stranded cables.

[Mash]

You can spend a lot of money on wires and interconnects. All for dubious improvements at best. Loudspeakers provide so much variation that any possible changes wrought by switching wires and interconnects is lost. Unless, of course, your original wires and interconnects were simply inadequate or too long.

I have always suggested that wirephiles connect their new dream wires only on one channel with their old and unloved wires on the other channel and then pan back & forth to listen for any differences. As far as I know, none have ever done this. By the time you finish changing out ALL of your wires your memory of what you had will be lost so you will hear whatever improvements you wish to hear.

[JohnMichael]

I have never purchased expensive cables. I would like to try some top level cables to hear if there are any benefits. The most I have spent on speaker or interconnect cables have been $250 a pair. I do not consider those as expensive.

Today my thoughts on cables are solid core with minimal dielectric and minimal jacketing. The more I listen to the AntiCable speaker cables and the DNM Reson IC's are the way to go. I hate to speak of other companies but Audioquest are good cables but I can understand why they had to develop the DBS system to counter the effects of the insulation.

Geortz Alpha core is another solid core brand using minimal dielectrics. I like their Micropurl IC's but their entry level speaker cables roll off the high end.

I have just one comment about the AntiCable speaker cables. I bought two pair to bi-wire and hooked them up without twisting the 4 wires per side. Later I twisted them and the longer I listened I thought where was that magic I first heard. Instrumental texture were missing and a prevailing glassy sound to the music was added. I removed them and put another solid core cable but then a banana plug came lose. Something made me think to untwist the cables and when they were hooked up the magic was back. The cables are only $10 a foot/pair.

Progress in cable design involves quality of conductors with less impurities and crystal structures. Less dielectric is a good thing and Tara Labs uses solid core in a vacuum at a very high price. Geometry is also important. DSM speaker cables and IC's are kept a consistent space between each other and is not and cannot be twisted. Other cable makers twist their conductors.

Conductors, insulations and geometry is where most of the improvements have occurred and that is what makes up a cable.

[Mash]

The reason for using braided audio wire is that such wire is very flexible and therefore not at all prone to work hardening from being repositioned to curve around obstacles. House wiring can be solid because it is seldom repositioned, but audio wires may be repositioned many times. The latter is the reason that oxygen-free copper is often specified for solid wires: oxygen-free Cu is resistant to work hardening. That is, using solid wire creates the need to use oxygen-free Cu.

[Poultrygeist]

I have the big 4 wire Audioquest only because it was given to me by my son-in-law who's in the business. At the moment it's in the garage as it sounds no better than the Walmart Woods Patio Power Cord and I don't care for it's weight and stiffness.

40 ft of the Woods Cord sells for around $10 plus you can use the male and female ends for other projects.

It's a waste to spend hard earned money on boutique horse**** cables.

[JohnMichael]

I have the big 4 wire Audioquest only because it was given to me by my son-in-law who's in the business. At the moment it's in the garage as it sounds no better than the Walmart Woods Patio Power Cord and I don't care for it's weight and stiffness.

40 ft of the Woods Cord sells for around $10 plus you can use the male and female ends for other projects.

It's a waste to spend hard earned money on boutique horse**** cables.

I am curious as to which model of AudioQuest you have. I am not familiar with big 4 wire Audioquest.

[frenchmon]

I have the big 4 wire Audioquest only because it was given to me by my son-in-law who's in the business. At the moment it's in the garage as it sounds no better than the Walmart Woods Patio Power Cord and I don't care for it's weight and stiffness.

40 ft of the Woods Cord sells for around $10 plus you can use the male and female ends for other projects.

It's a waste to spend hard earned money on boutique horse**** cables.

Poultry....I will take it off your hands if you are willing to part with it.

[Poultrygeist]

HT Audioquest

[JohnMichael]

HT Audioquest

I am not aware of an Audioquest cable with HT as the name. It is tough to know what you are comparing if we do not know the model of cable you are using for comparison.

[Poultrygeist]

JM, lots of things we aren't aware of exist.

In this case it's Audioquest/CinemaQuest FLX semi-solid concentric loc copper 4x14 and as I said it's HT Audioquest speaker cable ( only 4 conductor model ).

Given the name, whatever it costs is too much.

[JohnMichael]

JM, lots of things we aren't aware of exist.

In this case it's Audioquest/CinemaQuest FLX semi-solid concentric loc copper 4x14 and as I said it's HT Audioquest speaker cable ( only 4 conductor model ).

Given the name, whatever it costs is too much.

I just like to know what we are comparing. By Semi-Solid does that mean it is a mixture of solid core and stranded cables? I have a pair of AQ cables that are stranded and they are not in the same class as their solid core cables. The better AQ cables are all solid core.

[Poultrygeist]

I'll say it again for anyone thinking of spending large sums of money on speaker wires and expecting return on their investment.

If your speaker wires don't degrade the sound, then those wires are the best you can buy. Speaker wire degradation like pregnancy is not measured in degrees. It does or it doesn't or it is or it isn't.

There are so many worthwhile upgrades to one's system such as better tubes, capacitors, resistors, phase plugs, dampening, room mods, cone treatments etc. that it's shameful to delude newcomers into thinking high priced wires can make a difference vs non-degrading cheap wires.

[JohnMichael]

Point-Counterpoint. Cables have their own electrical characteristics and those characteristics can work well with the components they are linking together or degrade the sound because of mismatched characteristics. Cables at the midrange price range can be a cost effective way to achieve synergy in your system.

Cables are a component in your system that are probably the most trouble free. They have nothing to break down or wear out. I did recently pull a banana plug from a speaker wire and you really do want to pull on the plug and not the wire.

Talk to your local dealer and ask if he has any wires for an at home trial. Until you try different style of cables it is hard to tell if they are a positive or negative.

Like many things in life some are more able to hear differences in cables. Differences in cables may be more noticeable in two channel systems than multiple speaker processed systems. When I add a new component I change cables to hear which sounds best.

My system is not finished until the cables have been selected.

[Mash]

Give it up, Pg. You are arguing a religeous question. People will hear what they want to hear.

I have read so much nonsense about wires I am forced to wonder how people can have so much free time and money for this.

Sell the flakey wire and use the money for your other projects.

My favorite (beyond the exotic geometries jazz) is the use of OFC which MIGHT be beneficial in heavy solid conductors to prevent cracking. Oxygen-free copper was developed to allow generator armature windings and stator windings to be formed (bent) into their required shapes without cracking from work-hardening. There are no electrical differences between oxygen-free copper and standard copper. This is from the company that developed OFC. But many here are "sure" that they can hear the difference provided by using OFC in lieu of regular Cu.

[Hyfi]

Give it up, Pg. You are arguing a religeous question. People will hear what they want to hear.

I have read so much nonsense about wires I am forced to wonder how people can have so much free time and money for this.

This is another problem with Nay Sayers. All they do is read and most of them never even try and experiment for themselves which makes them sheep in the religion of nay sayers.

I don't know what your reference system is but maybe it won't matter for you and that's great because nobody told you to go buy anything.

The last cable thread at AK that was closed was in the TOL forum and was about the fact that even when like minded people who choose on their own to experiment with and talk about real experiences, why do the nay sayers always feel that they have to chime in and save everyone from themselves.

That is what I see you doing here. The OP asked 2 things. If there were significant developments in the last 10 years, and if anyone thought he should upgrade his cables.

Again, if you had nothing in your own experiences to add or to say that you cannot hear any changes when you tried cable x or y, then really all you can add is that you Read something that someone else who didn't try anything wrote.

Also, some of us come by decent cables in odd ways. I got over $2K worth of Synergistic cables when I purchased a whole system for $300. The cables bested what I had so of course I use them.

[JohnMichael]

Let us compare wire to fine foods. I have a friend who can taste a dish and tell you the ingredients used in the preparation. I can enjoy the same dish but other than obvious ingredients have no idea what spices or herbs were used. We are able to agree if we like it.

My sense of hearing seems to be more acute than my sense of taste. I think we all have different abilities so it seems normal that some can hear differences in cables and some are not able. I would not argue with anyone who says they taste saffron in a dish.

[emaidel]

Let us compare wire to fine foods. I have a friend who can taste a dish and tell you the ingredients used in the preparation. I can enjoy the same dish but other than obvious ingredients have no idea what spices or herbs were used. We are able to agree if we like it.

My sense of hearing seems to be more acute than my sense of taste. I think we all have different abilities so it seems normal that some can hear differences in cables and some are not able. I would not argue with anyone who says they taste saffron in a dish.

All of that was very well said, and pertinent to the beliefs of many AR members.

I have a friend who says that he can hardly tell the difference between Patron tequila (for an additional $1.75) and the house-brand junk a local Mexican restaurant uses in its Margaritas, yet claims to be "known to walk out of a restaurant that uses Hunt's ketchup instead of Heinz." Other than his ketchup comparison being a bit silly, he's basically just a cheapskate. Might that not be somewhat pertinent here?

I will never spend thousands of dollars on cables, not only because I'm retired and on a fixed income, but because, deep down inside, $3,600 for a single 1-meter cable stikes me as flat-out ridiculous. On the other hand, like you, I will spend hundreds (or have spent hundreds) of dollars on cables, and been thoroughly satisfied with what I've heard, with the exception of Audioquest Crystal speaker wire.

[jneutron]

Audio cables? I thought I made that very clear. Al poses real issues when used for conducting electricity. Only Cu, Ag, and Gold can be "trusted" but Cu has proven adequate in all cases.

Historically accurate for in the house use. The big problem was the combination of Al2O3 which is indeed non conductive, with connector hardware designed for use with copper wire. Aluminum has a TCE of 25.5 ppm/degree C, copper at 16.6 ppm/degree C.

However, pigtailing and the use of a flouride paste has solved those in the residential arena, the power company, as well as by those who use aluminum stabilized niobium titanium superconductors.

P.S. I love the trem "Audio Cable Design". This gives audio cables more gravitas than they deserve.

Perhaps..Perhaps you have taken your assertions a tad far as well.

From time to time I look back at my life to review what I have contributed to the world.

I too do that...sigh.

So what are you wire-folks doing to contribute to the world? I mean, besides spending time listening to wires.

For me, the list is long. But actually irrelevant to the discussion at hand. There's really no need to bolseter ones' self as an argumentative tool..

I think the subjects that I have mastered have carried me far further and provided me with far more satisfaction than your area of interest has provided you.

It is impossible to claim one's satisfaction is greater than another's as you have done. Please refrain.

This is another problem with Nay Sayers. All they do is read and most of them never even try and experiment for themselves which makes them sheep in the religion of nay sayers.

No. There are also people you classify as naysayers who attempt to understand why cables possibly could have an effect. Most of the explanations given just don't make the grade. The lack of a viable explanation certainly doesn't make it impossible, but most scientific types can't get past the fodder presented as science.

I approached some neural/hearing researchers about 10 years ago with a well constructed scientific explanation and test setup, they could not get past the foolish cable yaysayer/naysayer garbage.

The OP asked 2 things. If there were significant developments in the last 10 years, and if anyone thought he should upgrade his cables.

For IC's and PC's, there has been some significant gains in understandings. For speaker wires, it's a tad more difficult, but yes, some.

jn

[Hyfi]

No. There are also people you classify as naysayers who attempt to understand why cables possibly could have an effect. Most of the explanations given just don't make the grade. The lack of a viable explanation certainly doesn't make it impossible, but most scientific types can't get past the fodder presented as science.

I have no issues with nay sayers that have actually tried for themselves and just post that. My problem is when people who have never tried for themselves just start spouting off about what they have read and believe.

If a person who seriously believes that there are no differences in sound between ANY 2 cables jumps into a thread and claims that anyone who does think they hear a difference is an idiot, and they have never tried it themselves with a system transparent enough to display the differences, then I have a problem.

If the non believer chimes into a thread like this and says "from everything I have read, along with personal attempts with my own system, I cannot hear a difference and do not believe they exist" then that is an appropriate response, not that I am an idiot and have wasted all my money and so on.

Non belief is no less of a religion than those who do believe.

Again tho I will state that I have not played around with enough Speaker Cable to have a strong belief one way or the other but I do own ICs that alter the sound depending on the components connected to as well as where in the chain they reside.

You don't have to believe it, and maybe if I demonstrated it in my home you would not hear it. And that is fine too because at that point, you would have actually tried as opposed to just repeating whatever you have read and believed up to that point. Then you could post about your real world experience instead of quoting or paraphrasing what others have written, and a lot of times without actually trying it out first.

[jneutron]

You don't have to believe it, and maybe if I demonstrated it in my home you would not hear it. And that is fine too because at that point, you would have actually tried as opposed to just repeating whatever you have read and believed up to that point. Then you could post about your real world experience instead of quoting or paraphrasing what others have written, and a lot of times without actually trying it out first.

Is your use of the word "you" directed at me, or is it being used generically at those you classify as "naysayers"? A term I abhor btw, as well as that of yaysayer..

jn

[Poultrygeist]

People are so hungry to improve their systems yet lack the courage to try a real upgrade. It's sad that boutique wires end up being the best they can do.

[JohnMichael]

One of the things I have found in my sampling of cables is that a single solid core cable sounds best to my ears. The timing of all the notes traveling that single wire in time creates a better soundstage. Even a cable that uses individually insulated solid core conductors of different guages can interfere with the timing. All my IC's and the AntiCables are single conductor for each polarity.

The next cable I am thinking about is the DNM Bi-wire speaker cable. The four solid core conductors are molded to keep an even distance between conductors. The two wires for the negative and two wires for the positive are set to reduce electrical interference and eddy currents.

I do not need cables but I like to try cables much the same way someone might upgrade an amps capacitors or try a new set of tubes. The only part of my stereo needing upgrading was my turntable. I have replaced the motor and added the power supply upgrade so I am happy with the perfformance of all my components.

Since the money I spend on cables or tweaks is rarely more than a nice evening out with a show. The cables and tweaks I will have for a longtime, long after the dinner has passes and I sober.

[Mash]

Now I understand.... Those of us who cannot hear differences amoung cables are defective. I guess we should junk our soundsystems....

Let's see: New Magnepan MMGs can be bought for $600 delivered. How many nice cables can I get for $600?

Which will do more for most listeners?

BTW someone pointed out a dealer's negative (does-not-recommend) attitude toward the MMG ... well, guess what? Dealers do not sell the MMG. Magnepan sells the MMG directly to the buyer and within 6 months one can then trade their MMG in for a $600 credit at their favorite Magnepan dealer. Then what happens to those MMG?