Power Cords.

[E-Stat]

Has anybody ever used external replacement power cords for their gear? If so what where the reults? All of my gear goes through a power conditioner so would it make and sense to get better external power cords?

I would never source a power amp through a conditioner, especially the 10 amp per monoblock VTL tube amps. With few very expensive exceptions (Nordost, Audience, Shunyata, etc.), they limit current and thus dynamic range. I run all my power amps and the speaker power supplies through JPS Labs, Harmonic Technology and some DIY after market cords. Result? Better bass punch and low level resolution through better RFI rejection. I run the sources through conditioners.

The usual canard is that after miles and miles of wire, how can the last three feet make any difference? The problem with that myopic view is that the cords represent the first three feet in an environment most likely polluted with any number of digital switching power supplies. There was an old TV repairman here by the name of Woodman who staunchly asserted that there was no possible way that any power cord could ever make a difference. Naturally, he had zero actual experience with any aftermarket cord and relied entirely upon his speculation and imagination. The concept of cords actually having active RFI filter networks and shielding was beyond his ability to comprehend. I can think of some others here today who will likely share that same view.

rw

[Smokey]

I The concept of cords actually having active RFI filter networks and shielding was beyond his ability to comprehend.

rw

You really have to look at PC in an opposite view.

Power cords are probably the biggest source of low frequency noise interference (EMI) in an audio system due to its high current. And shielding it to reduce its EMI emission to its surrounding (or to protect it from outside EMI) at low frequency is useless since you will need a really thick shielding (2 inches copper at 60 Hz) to be any useful at lower frequency protection.

The best way to combat this situation is to use cable geometry to fight low noise interference. Cable such as Canare 4S11 that have four wire “Star Quad” configuration. Such a configuration not only have advantage of reducing EM field around the cable (to reduce emiision), it reduces susceptibility to electro-magnetically (EM) induced noise from outside sources too.

[E-Stat]

Power cords are probably the biggest source of low frequency noise interference (EMI) in an audio system due to its high current. And shielding it to reduce its EMI emission to its surrounding (or to protect it from outside EMI) at low frequency is useless since you will need a really thick shielding (2 inches copper at 60 Hz) to be any useful at lower frequency protection.

Who said anything about shielding against 60 hz? Useless? Only to those who have never used them and have trouble imagining the improvements. Especially when you are incapable of speculating about what's important. Great straw man argument!

The best way to combat this situation is to use cable geometry to fight low noise interference.

Why do you incorrectly assume this is not being done with aftermarket cords? I can tell you that both the JPS Labs Power AC+ and the Harmonic Tech use multiple sets of conductors.

rw

[Smokey]

Who said anything about shielding against 60 hz?

You did not get the point I was getting at

Many people change their power cords to achieve lower noise figure-such as you said-RFI filter networks and shielding, but forget about biggest noise source-the PC itself. So if you are serious about combating noise, start with PC that address its own emission to its surrounding.

Useless?Only to those who have never used them and have trouble imagining the improvements.

If we are talking about low frequency protection, then yes, the shielding are useless. Speculation are easy, but it does not change the fact that shielding at lower frequency are not too effective. Just look it up and I give you hand...post #10

Audiophile power cables: do they make a difference?

Why do you incorrectly assume this is not being done with aftermarket cords? I can tell you that both the JPS Labs Power AC+ and the Harmonic Tech use multiple sets of conductors.

But for what purpose?

JPS Labs site said that their Power AC+' "Optimized Field Matrix' (O.F.M.)" design is to increases the cords effectiveness in carrying the instantaneous current demanded (whatever that means). It does not say anything about combating noise.

[squidboyw]

I have referenced Furman equipment several times. This is a link to a discussion a member of our local group wrote. This guy designs and builds SET tube units and does the designs in his head! I kind of understand what he is talking about sometimes, but he is WAY smarter than I am.

Anyway, it is not so much dirty power that some conditioners work to clean, it is the consistency of the power. The technical term is Power Factor. Furman unit address this.

Here is the link:

http://newaudiosociety.com/cgi-bin/y...num=1149518816

The thread is long but the sections by 'SET' are the one's to read.

[E-Stat]

Many people change their power cords to achieve lower noise figure-such as you said-RFI filter networks and shielding, but forget about biggest noise source-the PC itself. So if you are serious about combating noise, start with PC that address its own emission to its surrounding.

When the net result is a quieter background, I find that to be a successful approach.

Speculation are easy, but it does not change the fact that shielding at lower frequency are not too effective.

It remains true that if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his a$$ either. Is there some relevance to your observation?

But for what purpose? It does not say anything about combating noise.

I find it amusing that now your speculation relies upon reading a part of the cable's marketing! Hint: read their entire description which talks about reducing noise. In addition to lowering the noise floor, the larger and more expensive Power AC+ also addresses the current needs of high powered components.

rw

[Smokey]

Is there some relevance to your observation?

That was just FYI in case somebody ask

I find it amusing that now your speculation relies upon reading a part of the cable's marketing! Hint: read their entire description which talks about reducing noise.

I don't know STAT but uopn reading further, it said their 'Optimized Field Matrix' (OFM) design uses two 10 AWG conductors. I thought you said they use multiple sets of conductors in their power A+ model.

But either way, DIY from star quad cable is not that hard and looking at some of PC prices from JPS Labs, alot cheaper

[E-Stat]

I don't know STAT but uopn reading further, it said their 'Optimized Field Matrix' (OFM) design uses two 10 AWG conductors. I thought you said they use multiple sets of conductors in their power A+ model.

Looks like we're both wrong. It uses 8 gauge wire. The reason I thought there were two pair is because there are clearly two fat wires that are wound around each other. I assumed they combined two sets of conductors like star quad, but the wording does suggest each section is a single massive 8 gauge conductor.

Power AC+

But either way, DIY from star quad cable is not that hard and looking at some of PC prices from JPS Labs, a lot cheaper

Cheaper no doubt!

rw

[frenchmon]

I would never source a power amp through a conditioner, especially the 10 amp per monoblock VTL tube amps. With few very expensive exceptions (Nordost, Audience, Shunyata, etc.), they limit current and thus dynamic range. I run all my power amps and the speaker power supplies through JPS Labs, Harmonic Technology and some DIY after market cords. Result? Better bass punch and low level resolution through better RFI rejection. I run the sources through conditioners.

The usual canard is that after miles and miles of wire, how can the last three feet make any difference? The problem with that myopic view is that the cords represent the first three feet in an environment most likely polluted with any number of digital switching power supplies. There was an old TV repairman here by the name of Woodman who staunchly asserted that there was no possible way that any power cord could ever make a difference. Naturally, he had zero actual experience with any aftermarket cord and relied entirely upon his speculation and imagination. The concept of cords actually having active RFI filter networks and shielding was beyond his ability to comprehend. I can think of some others here today who will likely share that same view.

rw

So are you recommending that I should not run my amp through the power console? Its only a Rotel RB 1080 @ 200 per channel. Would I benefit by going directly into the wall?

I have a Belkin power console PF31 and its very convenient. I hit one botton and everything turns on or off with the amp on a delay and I know I have some sorta protection.

frenchmon

[poppachubby]

Would I benefit by going directly into the wall?


frenchmon

I don't want to speak for E-Stat, however I just had this conversation with him not too long ago. In essence yes, he's telling you to plug into the wall. However, there can be alot of issues with digital and analog devices when they are plugged in series together. Essentially the digital stuff throws alot of interference back into the wall, this creates havoc for your analog gear.

This is why I have chosen to have an additional line put in. I have one extra slot in my breaker box. My buddy who is an electrician will run a line for me and hook up 2 or 3 plugs in series. I will use the existing plugs for digital and the new ones for analog.

My suggestion is, if possible of course, try to run either your analog or digital to a different line and see what happens. Another good test of this would be to completely disconnect either one entirely from the chain and see how the other sounds. E-Stat has told me the results are subtle.

[E-Stat]

So are you recommending that I should not run my amp through the power console? Its only a Rotel RB 1080 @ 200 per channel. Would I benefit by going directly into the wall?

My experience says yes when it comes to dynamics and bass punch.

I have a Belkin power console PF31 and its very convenient. I hit one botton and everything turns on or off with the amp on a delay and I know I have some sorta protection.

As for me, I've never in decades had trouble running amps directly to the wall.

rw