Power Cords.

[E-Stat]

JoeSP9 already tipped me off. I am partial to Belden 89529 using Furutech supplies.

The braided 89259 works fine for speaker wire, but you would never use coax as a power cord! The two I mentioned are eminently better suited for AC use. I've used some of Jon Risch' recipes for room treatments as well. He is a mod over at AA.

Joe emailed me a Risch recipe that I'm pretty pumped about.

The resulting cable has very good LCR characteristics for IC or speaker use.

Also I am getting supplies from PartConnexion, a Canadian store. What can you recommend for plugs? Are Cardas really the best? I think I'll try the Furutech for now, the pair I'm looking at is mid-range, approx. $40 CDN.

I'm partial to Cardas, but Furutech is also a reputable supplier.

Perhaps my fantasy will extend to me wacking these cable guys with my very own DIY cable. Ooooooo sexy!!

I've been making my own cables for thirty years now. You definitely get the most bang for your buck!

rw

[frenchmon]

AVS Forum ?

Yeap thats it....They don't believe cable can make a difference over there. I ran into a lots of problems. They think its all snake oil and a waste of money.


frenchmon

[frenchmon]

To use a power conditioner that really cleans the power, it must be dirty to begin with it seems? Would that then depend on what kinda power you are pulling? From what I understand, some neighborhoods pull cleaner power than others.

frenchmon

[squidboyw]

I have used at least 15 different brands and types of power cords. Results can and do very. Like many other types of gear, matching is important.

Our local audiophile group was able to collect a batch of 6 or so power cords and we did a shoot-out over 3 days. The results confirmed that not all power cords are equal and more money spent doesn't mean better sound. Testing was done off the CD player.

The most common result of a power cord (here after referred to as PC) upgrade, at least in the system used for testing, was a much lower noise floor and a better more defined and tight bass. In terms of the bass, it was much like the difference between being hit with a 1 gal. pail of water vs. being hit with a 1 gal water balloon; it was a lot tighter with much greater impact. We also experienced changes in the soundstage / imaging with a number of the PC.

My current amp has a captive PC but with the previous amp, I was able to experiment.
I went from a mid level Monster,
to Transparent,
to a home brew Chris Venhaus design,
to Purist Audio Design Dominus.
They all changed the sound and it was always better than the stock PC.

That being said, if you first don't have your speakers set up properly and some other basic items taken care of, you'll probably be wasting your hard earned $$ on upscale PC.

Squiddy

PS and yes, I do use a power conditioner in addition to better PCs.

[frenchmon]

I have used at least 15 different brands and types of power cords. Results can and do very. Like many other types of gear, matching is important.

Our local audiophile group was able to collect a batch of 6 or so power cords and we did a shoot-out over 3 days. The results confirmed that not all power cords are equal and more money spent doesn't mean better sound. Testing was done off the CD player.

The most common result of a power cord (here after referred to as PC) upgrade, at least in the system used for testing, was a much lower noise floor and a better more defined and tight bass. In terms of the bass, it was much like the difference between being hit with a 1 gal. pail of water vs. being hit with a 1 gal water balloon; it was a lot tighter with much greater impact. We also experienced changes in the soundstage / imaging with a number of the PC.

My current amp has a captive PC but with the previous amp, I was able to experiment.
I went from a mid level Monster,
to Transparent,
to a home brew Chris Venhaus design,
to Purist Audio Design Dominus.
They all changed the sound and it was always better than the stock PC.

That being said, if you first don't have your speakers set up properly and some other basic items taken care of, you'll probably be wasting your hard earned $$ on upscale PC.

Squiddy

PS and yes, I do use a power conditioner in addition to better PCs.

Thanks P. Sqiddy ahhh Squiddy...(sorry couldn't resist) So you do use a power conditioner with your power cords. May I ask if the conditioner is in the same price range as the cords? And do you plug your amp into the conditioner or the wall?

frenchmon

[poppachubby]

The braided 89259 works fine for speaker wire, but you would never use coax as a power cord! The two I mentioned are eminently better suited for AC use. I've used some of Jon Risch' recipes for room treatments as well. He is a mod over at AA.


The resulting cable has very good LCR characteristics for IC or speaker use.


I'm partial to Cardas, but Furutech is also a reputable supplier.


I've been making my own cables for thirty years now. You definitely get the most bang for your buck!

rw

E Stat, I thought you were talking about inter connects for DIY!!! My mind is so focused on the IC's... of course you were talking about power cord DIY, that's what the thread is about. You'll have to excuse me, very tired.

I haven't given any thought to DIY cords, I have been wrapped up in the IC's. It would be a great option for me because most of my equipment requires a hardwire anyhow. Thanks again dubbya.

[Mr Peabody]

I have a power conditioner as well which I added a couple years down the road after adding the PC's, but it has designated outlets that don't limit current especially for large power amps.

[frenchmon]

E Stat, I thought you were talking about inter connects for DIY!!! My mind is so focused on the IC's... of course you were talking about power cord DIY, that's what the thread is about. You'll have to excuse me, very tired.

I haven't given any thought to DIY cords, I have been wrapped up in the IC's. It would be a great option for me because most of my equipment requires a hardwire anyhow. Thanks again dubbya.

Speaking of DIY IC's...are you still going to try and make the Analysis Plus cables?

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

I have a power conditioner as well which I added a couple years down the road after adding the PC's, but it has designated outlets that don't limit current especially for large power amps.

I was at Wylies today talking to him about power conditioners. He said if the conditioner has a big enough power supply as his does...it wont diminish or limit the current at all.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

I have a power conditioner as well which I added a couple years down the road after adding the PC's, but it has designated outlets that don't limit current especially for large power amps.

It seems what I have high current outlets as well...and it cleans the power as well with a big power supply . But if the console is doing all this, why an after market power cord? How can that help if the power console is doing it?



* Level 4 Power Protection
* Phase 3 PureFilter™ Circuitry with video, audio, and HiCurrent™ filters
* Advanced Overvoltage Protection
* Convenient console design fits perfectly in your home theater cabinet
* LED status display including input voltage and output current
* 2 HiCurrent outlets for high-power amplifiers
* Lifetime Warranty
* $500,000 Connected Equipment Warranty
* 11 surge-protected outlets
* 5605 joules of surge protection
* 285,000-Amp maximum spike current
* 2 pairs of gold coaxial connections for coaxial-cable protection
* 10 ft. SD750 HiCurrent™ power cord with right-angle plug
* UL 1449 Rated

The Power Console PF31 is perfect for people who are serious about their audio or home theater system. With 11 outlets and Phase 3 PureFilter Circuitry, the PF31 has three separate filters to provide clean and clear power to all of your audio, video, and HiCurrent components. The Power Console PF31 enhances your home theater experience at an affordable price.

Each PureAV Power Console is packed with innovative features, such as Multi-Phase PureFilter Circuitry, designed to remove electrical noise and provide clean and clear power to all of your valuable equipment. It isolates audio, video and digital components, and prevents noise created by one connected component from contaminating the entire system.

Built-in Advanced Overvoltage Protection automatically disconnects power from your equipment when the input voltage reaches a dangerous level, and restores power automatically when the voltage returns to a safe level.
Features


frenchmon

[E-Stat]

To use a power conditioner that really cleans the power, it must be dirty to begin with it seems?

The problems are NOT typically on the incoming power. The villains live inside your house! They are the many digital devices that happily spew radiated garbage back into the line. Conditioners also prevent "backwash" from a digital device getting back into the AC.

rw

[squidboyw]

Thanks P. Sqiddy ahhh Squiddy...(sorry couldn't resist) So you do use a power conditioner with your power cords. May I ask if the conditioner is in the same price range as the cords? And do you plug your amp into the conditioner or the wall?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Until I get the coin to pick up a Furman unit, the amp goes directly into its own 30 amp circuit with cryo treated outlet and isolated ground.

My current conditioner is the ancient but once well regarded Tice Power Block & Titan energy storage unit (slightly modified). I have added cryo treated outlets and grounded them. Since it is going on 25 yrs old, I plan to recap it and add a better power cord. The Tice is more or less a huge isolation transformer, When I purchased it in 1985 or 6, it was $2400 (if I was a real guy, I'd figure out how to upload a pic).

My most expensive (and the best) PCs are the Purist Dominus at about $1000 per.

If you wish to read the review I did of all the PCs we tested, go here:

http://newaudiosociety.com/cgi-bin/y...num=1122138804

I have tried an Exact Power conditioner in my system and it is very nice (but expensive).
Review here:

http://newaudiosociety.com/cgi-bin/y...num=1186106864

In our local group, the two most popular conditioners are Furmans and Equi=Tech. A few individuals run Furmans ahead of everything else and then plug their additional conditioners into those, including one person who uses a huge PS audio (the 1000, I think).

[Smokey]

Who said anything about shielding against 60 hz?

You did not get the point I was getting at

Many people change their power cords to achieve lower noise figure-such as you said-RFI filter networks and shielding, but forget about biggest noise source-the PC itself. So if you are serious about combating noise, start with PC that address its own emission to its surrounding.

Useless?Only to those who have never used them and have trouble imagining the improvements.

If we are talking about low frequency protection, then yes, the shielding are useless. Speculation are easy, but it does not change the fact that shielding at lower frequency are not too effective. Just look it up and I give you hand...post #10

Audiophile power cables: do they make a difference?

Why do you incorrectly assume this is not being done with aftermarket cords? I can tell you that both the JPS Labs Power AC+ and the Harmonic Tech use multiple sets of conductors.

But for what purpose?

JPS Labs site said that their Power AC+' "Optimized Field Matrix' (O.F.M.)" design is to increases the cords effectiveness in carrying the instantaneous current demanded (whatever that means). It does not say anything about combating noise.

[squidboyw]

I have referenced Furman equipment several times. This is a link to a discussion a member of our local group wrote. This guy designs and builds SET tube units and does the designs in his head! I kind of understand what he is talking about sometimes, but he is WAY smarter than I am.

Anyway, it is not so much dirty power that some conditioners work to clean, it is the consistency of the power. The technical term is Power Factor. Furman unit address this.

Here is the link:

http://newaudiosociety.com/cgi-bin/y...num=1149518816

The thread is long but the sections by 'SET' are the one's to read.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm not an EE but I thought unless using something like a Carver any instantaneous demands were taken care of by the power supply and capacitor banks.

[Mr Peabody]

Power regeneration.... another kettle of fish. That's why the Furman would cost so much. From what i understand to keep power at a constant the unit is basically an amplifier itself. And, from what I understand those who design our audio gear keep power constant at the test bench.

[E-Stat]

Many people change their power cords to achieve lower noise figure-such as you said-RFI filter networks and shielding, but forget about biggest noise source-the PC itself. So if you are serious about combating noise, start with PC that address its own emission to its surrounding.

When the net result is a quieter background, I find that to be a successful approach.

Speculation are easy, but it does not change the fact that shielding at lower frequency are not too effective.

It remains true that if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his a$$ either. Is there some relevance to your observation?

But for what purpose? It does not say anything about combating noise.

I find it amusing that now your speculation relies upon reading a part of the cable's marketing! Hint: read their entire description which talks about reducing noise. In addition to lowering the noise floor, the larger and more expensive Power AC+ also addresses the current needs of high powered components.

rw

[poppachubby]

Speaking of DIY IC's...are you still going to try and make the Analysis Plus cables?

frenchmon

Oh yes, for sure Frenchy! It will probably be a couple of months until I get to your cord. I must first cut my teeth on a couple of sets and then your set will be my first big challenge.

[Feanor]

Has anybody ever used external replacement power cords for their gear? If so what where the reults? All of my gear goes through a power conditioner so would it make and sense to get better external power cords?

frenchmon

Same old message from me. I go from basic to a lower-mid priced option; if that works I might try a upper-mid, or even high end option. If it doesn't, I stop there.

Hence I tried -- a still use -- the likes of Belden shielded cable with Magico connectors and PS Audio low-end shielded cable. On all cables I use ferrite traps also. I haven't identified any difference with these low to low-mid options so I'm stopping there.

On the other hand folks like Mr Peabody sometime advise that you have to go higher to get any real improvement. Maybe so, but I might never find out. In general I can spend the money better than on >$300 cables, e.g. on music.

[E-Stat]

Hence I tried -- a still use -- the likes of Belden shielded cable with Magico connectors ...

Just curious. Which Belden and using which source?

rw

[frenchmon]

Oh yes, for sure Frenchy! It will probably be a couple of months until I get to your cord. I must first cut my teeth on a couple of sets and then your set will be my first big challenge.

Sounds good.

frencmon

[Feanor]

Just curious. Which Belden and using which source?

rw

'Stat, I used the Belden 83803 as in the reference you supplied. I hate it; the cable is extremely stiff.

What do you mean by source? I have fed directly from the wall to various digital music sources; I have also fed from my Belkin PureAV PF60 surge/filter device.

[Smokey]

Is there some relevance to your observation?

That was just FYI in case somebody ask

I find it amusing that now your speculation relies upon reading a part of the cable's marketing! Hint: read their entire description which talks about reducing noise.

I don't know STAT but uopn reading further, it said their 'Optimized Field Matrix' (OFM) design uses two 10 AWG conductors. I thought you said they use multiple sets of conductors in their power A+ model.

But either way, DIY from star quad cable is not that hard and looking at some of PC prices from JPS Labs, alot cheaper

[E-Stat]

I don't know STAT but uopn reading further, it said their 'Optimized Field Matrix' (OFM) design uses two 10 AWG conductors. I thought you said they use multiple sets of conductors in their power A+ model.

Looks like we're both wrong. It uses 8 gauge wire. The reason I thought there were two pair is because there are clearly two fat wires that are wound around each other. I assumed they combined two sets of conductors like star quad, but the wording does suggest each section is a single massive 8 gauge conductor.

Power AC+

But either way, DIY from star quad cable is not that hard and looking at some of PC prices from JPS Labs, a lot cheaper

Cheaper no doubt!

rw

[E-Stat]

'Stat, I used the Belden 83803 as in the reference you supplied. I hate it; the cable is extremely stiff.

Try using Harmonic Technology Magic. It completely holds a shape by itself!

What do you mean by source? I have fed directly from the wall to various digital music sources; I have also fed from my Belkin PureAV PF60 surge/filter device.

Just that. The application or device used with it.

rw