TT in the future

[blackraven]

I've read good reviews on a Ifi phono stage for a good performing inexpensive piece.

I have been told by a few analog guys I trust a rig is better off with a good turntable and less expensive cart opposed to the other way around. The Rega P3 was a great match with the Dynavector 10x5. When I got the upgrade bug I was told not to spend more money than the 10x5 with the P3 it was better to upgrade the table. The same 10x5 still sounding great on my Performance. I guess to complete the experiment I would have had to hear my Maestro on the P3.

It's difficult to find any "norms" or rules of thumb on analog, I found researching frustrating. I ended up with a pleasing rig though.

I think that it boils down to what cartridge and what table you are going with. You certainly don't want to pair a $2000 table with a $100 cartridge and visa vera. It is all about matching and the phono preamp needs to be considered.

My Thorens came with a 2m Red which was dreadful, grainy and bright. I went with the Nagaoka which costs 4 times more and the sound was transformed.

I think that you will get better sound pairing a $300-$500 table with a $200-$400 cartridge than a cheaper cartridge. As long as your phono preamp and the rest of your gear is up to the task

However, if you go with a more expensive table and a cheap cartridge, you can always upgrade the cartridge later.

[topspeed]

Wow, this is an old thread!

Without getting into the analog vs digital debate, I will say that analog is the more dangerous medium for your pocketbook. I've heard a few dacs, some good, some not so much, and the improvements were always incremental. Unfortunately, I've also heard some very good tt's with my own LP's and the difference between what I hear on my beginner set-up and what I heard on their's made me want to cry. It wasn't incremental, it wasn't subtle, and it will forever haunt me. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether it was the table, tonearm, or cart that was extracting so much more information from the groove, but the end result floored me. Considering the Soundsmith cart cost twice as much as my entire tt, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but that's what happens when you're a noob. There's a certain freedom to being ignorant and honestly, there's a part of me that wishes I was still an innocent. Now all I want is a VPI, lol!

[blackraven]

Wow, this is an old thread!

Without getting into the analog vs digital debate, I will say that analog is the more dangerous medium for your pocketbook. I've heard a few dacs, some good, some not so much, and the improvements were always incremental. Unfortunately, I've also heard some very good tt's with my own LP's and the difference between what I hear on my beginner set-up and what I heard on their's made me want to cry. It wasn't incremental, it wasn't subtle, and it will forever haunt me. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether it was the table, tonearm, or cart that was extracting so much more information from the groove, but the end result floored me. Considering the Soundsmith cart cost twice as much as my entire tt, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but that's what happens when you're a noob. There's a certain freedom to being ignorant and honestly, there's a part of me that wishes I was still an innocent. Now all I want is a VPI, lol!

Every part of the analog chain is important. For me, going from a 2M Red cartridge to a Nagaoka was a huge step up is sound quality with another huge leap when I upgraded the tube in my phono preamp. I would like to know if I would see another significant leap in sound if I upgraded my TT to something in the $1500 range over my vintage Thorens. I have also been contemplating to upgrading the phono preamp to a Jolida or even building the Pass Labs Pearl 2 or the Akiko phono preamp-

GlasssWare Phono Preamps

I have a friend who is building a Pearl 2 with high end caps and resistors. I am going to wait to see what he has to say about it.

[Mr Peabody]

Yeah, TS, there is sometimes something to be said for innocense. I remember way back when I eye balled the arm being parallel and set the counter weight at zero, dialed in the recommended weight and ran with it. I often wonder how much better that old Pioneer would have sounded with a proper set up. Now I'm pretty much anal about set up. That's really bad since I rely on others to do it for me

[topspeed]

Yeah, TS, there is sometimes something to be said for innocense. I remember way back when I eye balled the arm being parallel and set the counter weight at zero, dialed in the recommended weight and ran with it.

Wait a sec...you mean to tell me that's not how you do it?!? That's literally what the Pro-Ject video told me to do, and now I'm guessing that's wrong? How am I supposed to set it up? I don't have the fancy protractor or any of that other hoo-haa.

However I have a very small LP collection and I wouldn't expect to buy many new ones if only because I listen to classical and there isn't much classical being released on LP. Thus new investment of time & money in vinyl playback would offer limited payback for me.

My friend, you obviously haven't been into a local record store in quite a while. There are tons of classical records, many at ridiculous prices. Think $2-5! Garage sales are also an excellent resource. My neighbor retired to the coast and sold literally cases of classical lp's for a buck each at his garage sale. There were hundreds, and quite a few box sets, all in great condition. Also, once your friends find out you enjoy vinyl, you'll find them seeking you out just to give you their old collections because they don't listen to vinyl anymore. The loss of the classical music audience is definitely your gain as you'll be able to scoop up what very few want.

[Feanor]

My friend, you obviously haven't been into a local record store in quite a while. There are tons of classical records, many at ridiculous prices. Think $2-5! Garage sales are also an excellent resource. My neighbor retired to the coast and sold literally cases of classical lp's for a buck each at his garage sale. There were hundreds, and quite a few box sets, all in great condition. Also, once your friends find out you enjoy vinyl, you'll find them seeking you out just to give you their old collections because they don't listen to vinyl anymore. The loss of the classical music audience is definitely your gain as you'll be able to scoop up what very few want.

TS, you mean well, and no doubt there was a time when classical vinyl was easy to find and dirt cheap. But -- at least in my neck of the woods -- these opportunities have dried up.

Maybe in some big cities there are specialty shops that have been able to corner some old collections, etcs., there aren't any of these where I've been living for last 20 years or so. I suppose I could drive to Toronto ...

The reason I got out of vinyl beginning in the mid '90s wasn't because I was convinced that CDs were "the perfect sound forever". The biggest reasons were (a) the rapidly shrinking availability of classical on vinyl, and (b) the ease of handling of CDs vs. LPs -- not to mention of either vs. computer files. I know there are people who still love the rituals setting up TTs and handling & playing LPs but they are not me.

[Mr Peabody]

Blackraven, I believe you are right, it's domponent matching, I just found it more difficult in the analog world to find concensus on "matching". I am always surprised at how many times I see people putting expensive carts on lesser tables, or, having a great table and cart to cheap out on the phono preamp.

[JohnMichael]

When I think of my Rega with the RB250 tonearm and no adjustments other than spacers for VTA I tend to avoid severe stylus profiles. All my cartridges are elliptical styli and operate well at an average height determined visually and audibly. When you have records of various thickness I find it best to set for the medium and tolerate the varirnces. I think you should pick a cartridge both for the tonearm it will be installed in and the phono preamp that will be amplifying the signal.

[Jaguar]

I'd love to try the Kronos, with respect to high end brands.