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Thread: TT in the future

  1. #26
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Wow, this is an old thread!

    Without getting into the analog vs digital debate, I will say that analog is the more dangerous medium for your pocketbook. I've heard a few dacs, some good, some not so much, and the improvements were always incremental. Unfortunately, I've also heard some very good tt's with my own LP's and the difference between what I hear on my beginner set-up and what I heard on their's made me want to cry. It wasn't incremental, it wasn't subtle, and it will forever haunt me. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether it was the table, tonearm, or cart that was extracting so much more information from the groove, but the end result floored me. Considering the Soundsmith cart cost twice as much as my entire tt, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but that's what happens when you're a noob. There's a certain freedom to being ignorant and honestly, there's a part of me that wishes I was still an innocent. Now all I want is a VPI, lol!
    Mr Peabody likes this.

  2. #27
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed View Post
    Wow, this is an old thread!

    Without getting into the analog vs digital debate, I will say that analog is the more dangerous medium for your pocketbook. I've heard a few dacs, some good, some not so much, and the improvements were always incremental. Unfortunately, I've also heard some very good tt's with my own LP's and the difference between what I hear on my beginner set-up and what I heard on their's made me want to cry. It wasn't incremental, it wasn't subtle, and it will forever haunt me. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether it was the table, tonearm, or cart that was extracting so much more information from the groove, but the end result floored me. Considering the Soundsmith cart cost twice as much as my entire tt, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but that's what happens when you're a noob. There's a certain freedom to being ignorant and honestly, there's a part of me that wishes I was still an innocent. Now all I want is a VPI, lol!
    Every part of the analog chain is important. For me, going from a 2M Red cartridge to a Nagaoka was a huge step up is sound quality with another huge leap when I upgraded the tube in my phono preamp. I would like to know if I would see another significant leap in sound if I upgraded my TT to something in the $1500 range over my vintage Thorens. I have also been contemplating to upgrading the phono preamp to a Jolida or even building the Pass Labs Pearl 2 or the Akiko phono preamp-

    GlasssWare Phono Preamps

    I have a friend who is building a Pearl 2 with high end caps and resistors. I am going to wait to see what he has to say about it.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  3. #28
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    Blackraven, I believe you are right, it's domponent matching, I just found it more difficult in the analog world to find concensus on "matching". I am always surprised at how many times I see people putting expensive carts on lesser tables, or, having a great table and cart to cheap out on the phono preamp.

  4. #29
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    Yeah, TS, there is sometimes something to be said for innocense. I remember way back when I eye balled the arm being parallel and set the counter weight at zero, dialed in the recommended weight and ran with it. I often wonder how much better that old Pioneer would have sounded with a proper set up. Now I'm pretty much anal about set up. That's really bad since I rely on others to do it for me

  5. #30
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy View Post
    i have to say that not nearly as much money need be spent on a phono setup to sound better than the equivalent amount spent on a digital player. hre is the easy way in:

    Akai BT-500 Turntable with Bluetooth

    this can be used with you stereo or directly to the computer. the cart is an AT at95e, pretty good sounding for the bucks but a better one could be fitted if preferred.

    once bitten by the bug and you hear more music from your LPs than CDs, you will then know when upgrades should be considered. incremental changes can effect more than incremental gains.

    here is the very same table branded as TEAC for less money:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P9WK1BW...KD3RZD09YG0AXF

    i have the akai version that my daughter got me for easy computer transfer. pretty good value. so far, so good.
    HFT, I know you're a vinyl fan from 'way back. Thanks for these references, those are nice looking units and would seem easy to use.

    I suspect I'd be no worse off using my old Technics SL-D2 and Denon DL-110 cartridge, (pictured below), but I would need a phono preamp, (since I sold the Cambridge pictured). If I were to get back into it, I'd likely get that Schiit Mani 2 you mentioned.

    However I have a very small LP collection and I wouldn't expect to buy many new ones if only because I listen to classical and there isn't much classical being released on LP. Thus new investment of time & money in vinyl playback would offer limited payback for me. The days of cheap, good used classical LPs are gone forever; unfortunately I missed on on the trend of people dumping them for CDs.


  6. #31
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Feanor, the Emotiva XPS phono preamp has gotten good reviews. I am thinking about buying it for my son to use with a vintage Pioneer PL-55d TT that I have. Or I may try and score a used Bellari. I am going to slap on an Ortofon 2M Blue or an AT AT-7V. I need a cartridge with a more neutral to bright sound as that TT is extremely warm sounding as opposed the the Nagaoka which is warmer.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #32
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    When I think of my Rega with the RB250 tonearm and no adjustments other than spacers for VTA I tend to avoid severe stylus profiles. All my cartridges are elliptical styli and operate well at an average height determined visually and audibly. When you have records of various thickness I find it best to set for the medium and tolerate the varirnces. I think you should pick a cartridge both for the tonearm it will be installed in and the phono preamp that will be amplifying the signal.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, Fanfare 3/PSU 1.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    JBL Studio 530's/Sanus SF22 stands
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  8. #33
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Feanor, the Emotiva XPS phono preamp has gotten good reviews. I am thinking about buying it for my son to use with a vintage Pioneer PL-55d TT that I have. Or I may try and score a used Bellari. I am going to slap on an Ortofon 2M Blue or an AT AT-7V. I need a cartridge with a more neutral to bright sound as that TT is extremely warm sounding as opposed the the Nagaoka which is warmer.
    Oh stop it, you guys. You're tempting me to haul out my gear and listen to my LP collection one more time.

    The last time I pulled my TT from the system it was mainly because I need shelf space for other stuff than hi-fi gear. As you can see, there is plenty of that in the family living room where my stereo system is located.


  9. #34
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Yeah, TS, there is sometimes something to be said for innocense. I remember way back when I eye balled the arm being parallel and set the counter weight at zero, dialed in the recommended weight and ran with it.
    Wait a sec...you mean to tell me that's not how you do it?!? That's literally what the Pro-Ject video told me to do, and now I'm guessing that's wrong? How am I supposed to set it up? I don't have the fancy protractor or any of that other hoo-haa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    However I have a very small LP collection and I wouldn't expect to buy many new ones if only because I listen to classical and there isn't much classical being released on LP. Thus new investment of time & money in vinyl playback would offer limited payback for me.
    My friend, you obviously haven't been into a local record store in quite a while. There are tons of classical records, many at ridiculous prices. Think $2-5! Garage sales are also an excellent resource. My neighbor retired to the coast and sold literally cases of classical lp's for a buck each at his garage sale. There were hundreds, and quite a few box sets, all in great condition. Also, once your friends find out you enjoy vinyl, you'll find them seeking you out just to give you their old collections because they don't listen to vinyl anymore. The loss of the classical music audience is definitely your gain as you'll be able to scoop up what very few want.

  10. #35
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed View Post
    My friend, you obviously haven't been into a local record store in quite a while. There are tons of classical records, many at ridiculous prices. Think $2-5! Garage sales are also an excellent resource. My neighbor retired to the coast and sold literally cases of classical lp's for a buck each at his garage sale. There were hundreds, and quite a few box sets, all in great condition. Also, once your friends find out you enjoy vinyl, you'll find them seeking you out just to give you their old collections because they don't listen to vinyl anymore. The loss of the classical music audience is definitely your gain as you'll be able to scoop up what very few want.
    TS, you mean well, and no doubt there was a time when classical vinyl was easy to find and dirt cheap. But -- at least in my neck of the woods -- these opportunities have dried up.

    Maybe in some big cities there are specialty shops that have been able to corner some old collections, etcs., there aren't any of these where I've been living for last 20 years or so. I suppose I could drive to Toronto ...

    The reason I got out of vinyl beginning in the mid '90s wasn't because I was convinced that CDs were "the perfect sound forever". The biggest reasons were (a) the rapidly shrinking availability of classical on vinyl, and (b) the ease of handling of CDs vs. LPs -- not to mention of either vs. computer files. I know there are people who still love the rituals setting up TTs and handling & playing LPs but they are not me.

  11. #36
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    I'd love to try the Kronos, with respect to high end brands.

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