Cartrdge Recommendation - help

[maxg]

Well just to follow up on what I thought here is a quote from one of the many sites that refer to moving coil carts moving less mass than moving coils. the addy of this site is http://www.phonophono.de/english/html/tonabnehmer.html

Quote: "MM cartridges: Moving magnet cartridges have a magnet situated on the carrier pipe of the tracking diamond, moving correspondingly to the modulation of the record grooves. The coils are permanently fixed to the casing of the cartridge. They can be constructed in large shape and generate a pretty high output voltage (approx 2mV to 5mV at 47kOhms), which can be further processed without trouble. What is disadvantageous is that the magnet is heavier compared with the light coils of MC cartridges. That's why (at least theoretically) the stylus can't follow the deflections of the record groove so easily."

And he continues for MC carts as follows:

"Moving coil cartridges have the coil fixed to the carrier of the tracking stylus. The magnet is firmly installed to the casing of the cartridge. What is advantageous is the low weight of the coil, which has to be moved by the stylus. The coil must, however, for weight reasons, do with few coils, which results in a very low output voltage (0.1mV to 0.5mV at 30 ohms to 500 ohms). Therefore MC cartridges require special preamplifiers or step-up transformers in order to achieve output voltages like those of MM cartridges."

So whilst we have agreement that there is a difference in which moves the more mass we seem to have disagreement as to which is actually moving the more??

Yet another item I thought I had nailed drifts into confusion.....

[skeptic]

If this were true, why would moving coil cartridges require more tracking force? Even thirty years ago, moving magnet cartridges could track at well under a gram while today, the best moving coil cartridges still require substantially more than one gram. Look at the specifications for complaince and dyanamic mass and compare. Remember, they when you double the tracking force, you are quadrupling the energy the stylus imparts to the groove. The higher the mass and lower the complaince, the lower the high frequency resonant frequency and the sharper its peak because it is not as well damped. Can you name even one moving coil cartridge that was ever suitable for playing CD4 discs which required response out to 40khz? I haven't looked at specs in a very long time but the physics hasn't changed. In fact, when it comes to phonograph records, practically nothing has changed in the last 30 years except that the prices have soared. BTW, when you look at the tracking force for Shure V15 type V series, you should keep in mind that 1 gram is for the cleaning brush. Typically it tracks most records very well at 3/4 gram. Some old Empire and ADC cartridges could go as low as 1/2 gram and on some records even down to 1/4 gram. The 999VE was one example. No MC cartridge I am aware of ever came remotely close.

[E-Stat]

If this were true...

It is. Your theoretical speculation fails you.

Remember, they when you double the tracking force, you are quadrupling the energy the stylus imparts to the groove.

All things being equal. Moving mass is not.

Some old Empire and ADC cartridges could go as low as 1/2 gram and on some records even down to 1/4 gram.

Don't forget Peter Pritchard's improvement of the XLM under the Sonus name. I had a Sonus Blue back in '76. Nice cartridge. It really liked low mass arms like the Infinity Black Widow and the Transcriptors Vestigal. It was not, however, the sonic equal of the Denon that followed. Or the Accuphase AC-2. Or the Shinon Red Boron. Or the current Dynavector.

The 999VE was one example.

What a dreadful sounding piece of crap. I sold those along with the Sonus brand. We coupled those high margin Empires with bottom-of-the-line changers.

rw

[hifitommy]

[Even thirty years ago, moving magnet cartridges could track at well under a gram while today]

that is/was a fallacy. specifications are just numbers on paper. adc specified o.75 gr vtf for the XLM and actually it was difficult to extract a 1.0gr vtf from it. i did so with a personally modified rabco st4 tt/arm assmebly. other arms required 1.5 gr minimum.

IF you have and XLM, try it. put on steely dans royal scam, second cut on either side. the cymbals will mistrack bleow 1.5 gr on most arms.

one gram with a shure v15V is a possiblity. but i would try the same tracking test or any other demanding test. why endanger your records with mistracking which can damage the vinyl permanently?

just be careful not to damage the vinyl.

[skeptic]

Most tonearms did not have the prerequisites to get the best performance out of cartridges. The criteria were at the very least, dynamic balance in all planes (not merely static balance), low friction precision jeweled bearings (not ball bearings) and well damped resonance at a low frequency. Very few arms met those criteria. SME was one. Empire 980 was another. I tracked both Empire 999VE and Shure V15 type II improved and type VMR at under a gram without distortion many times on many recordings.

[hifitommy]

on SOME records is not much of an accomplishment. being able to do so on the vast majority of records is another story. i wouldnt want to wonder if my stylus is going to mistrack on any less than 95% of all my records.

going to 1.5 grams isnt going to increase the wear by a measurable amount unless the stylus is in sad shape. a clean stylus in good condition at adequate tracking force is the pathway to record longevity, not seeing how low you can track at the risk of damaging some records that have some serious modulation on them.

the low vtf war was for selling cartridges, not for low record wear. n owadays with the increased footprint of styli, low vtf isnt as necessary or desirable as it once was.

[E-Stat]

SME was one... I tracked both Empire 999VE and Shure V15 type II improved and type VMR at under a gram without distortion many times on many recordings.

I had a SME 3009 Series II on a Technics SL1100 back in '74-'75. I used a V15 II for a while during that time and indeed it was a good tracker. You could track at a gram, but as with most cartridges in my experience, not get the best overall performance. Did you ever try the DIY damping tray mod with the arm? It sure helped with soundstaging (and warped records, for that matter). Evidently, SME found it desirable as well since the Series III came with one. I later moved on to a Sonus Blue / Vestigal combination that tracked better than the SME.

rw