Cartrdge Recommendation - help

[Arc45]

I have an Acoustic Signature Final tool turntable with ARC VT 100 MKII Tube amp;Arc LS-15 preamp ; an Anthem phon preamp with Martin Logan Ascent speakers.
The turntable has a Rega rb 250 tonearm and I am presently using a Grado Gold cartrdige.

Any recoomendations for this set up? The Grado is ok but "thin" in the midrange and since I just got this beast (turntable) I probably should go better.

Your ideas are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[DMK]

I have an Acoustic Signature Final tool turntable with ARC VT 100 MKII Tube amp;Arc LS-15 preamp ; an Anthem phon preamp with Martin Logan Ascent speakers.
The turntable has a Rega rb 250 tonearm and I am presently using a Grado Gold cartrdige.

Any recoomendations for this set up? The Grado is ok but "thin" in the midrange and since I just got this beast (turntable) I probably should go better.

Your ideas are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

The Grado is a decent cartridge but it's outclassed by the rest of your stuff. The arm on my table is a Rega RB300 and I'm assuming it isn't worlds different from the 250. I use the Ortofon Kontrapunkt B and it's an incredible sounding cartridge which works well with the Rega arm. It's $950 - how much did you want to spend? It'll fit in nicely with the rest of your system but there are other nice cartridges around for less (or more!).

How do you like the Anthem? Years ago I owned their tubed preamp and it holds a special place in my heart as the first tubed product I ever owned. I upgraded the pre and then went with a tubed power amp and have never looked backwards to SS. I've never auditioned the Anthem phono and I'm not familiar with its specs. Does it have enough gain to drive a lower output MC cartridge?

[Chas Underhay]

The Grado is a decent cartridge but it's outclassed by the rest of your stuff. The arm on my table is a Rega RB300 and I'm assuming it isn't worlds different from the 250. I use the Ortofon Kontrapunkt B and it's an incredible sounding cartridge which works well with the Rega arm. It's $950 - how much did you want to spend? It'll fit in nicely with the rest of your system but there are other nice cartridges around for less (or more!).

I'll second the Kontrapunct b, superb especially considering the cost.

If it is not already done, it would be worth considering one of the Origin Live type mods to your RB250, the Kontrapunct deserves it.

[Arc45]

Kontrapunct is within my budget. I'm unclear by the mod to which you are referring , Origin Live.........
Thanks for the replies!

[DMK]

Kontrapunct is within my budget. I'm unclear by the mod to which you are referring , Origin Live.........
Thanks for the replies!

www.originlive.com. I have not had this mod performed and I don't expect to but others have done so and have deemed it a good upgrade. Of course, one reason I'm not interested in it is because I have my eye on this Morch DP-6 tonearm....

[skeptic]

In some ways, choosing a phonograph cartridge is like choosing a speaker. Rather personal in what you think sounds best or most accurate with the other equipment you own. However, there are some objective criteria. Tracking ability, the ability to track highly modulated grooves at low force without distortion is one. Channel seperation at all audible frequencies is another. Personally I prefer cartridges with a flat frequency response. I also prefer cartridges which have a high output, are relatively immune to hum, and where you can replace the stylus without sending it out for service. That is why I prefer moving magnet cartridges in general and Shure V15 type V MR in particular. However, moving coil cartridges have their fans. Ortofon make a very good line of them and has been a reliable supplier for decades.

[maxg]

Cartridge choice is just about as personal an issue as speaker choice. In that light it comes as no surprise that my choices would be rather different from his. I prefer almost the exact opposite in fact - MC carts with low output.

Based purely on my limited experience I would recommend you at least try to get to listen to any of the following at their respective price ranges:

$150 - Denon 103 (I do not know why the system has turned this into a hyperlink - it has nothing to do with me)
$750 - Shelter 501
$1400 - Shelter 901

All are low output MC and match well to the RB250.

IMHO the 901 is one of the best there is - and I am not alone in that (although there is now a 90X that is supposed to be better but I aint come across it yet...)

[E-Stat]

Your ideas are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I agree with skeptic that as transducers, cartridges are subject to as much individual preference as are speakers. Like you, I use electrostatic speakers and have done so for over twenty years. Consequently, I favor moving coil cartridges for their superior resolution and transient response IMHO. I presently use a Dynavector DV-20XL cartridge that is available in both low and medium output versions and can be had for around $550. Since Anthem recommends a minimum output of 0.4mV, you may want to go for a medium output cartridge. I'm pushing the limit with my arrangement (the SP-9 has similar gain to yours) since I use the low output flavor and found that cabling, both signal and power, was more critical to keep noise levels down. In fact, I use a Monster conditioner on the table for the same reason.

As for your Grado, I'm surprised at your "thin in the midrange" characterization. I owned one many moons ago and didn't find that to be the case. I found mine lacking in high frequency detail instead. But that was a different model, so? Since Grado says they are insensitive to capacitance, then loading is likely not a problem. Have you tried experimenting with VTA? A number of cartridges are quite sensitive in this area. I have found if the VTA is off, then the soundstage suffers. That may be what you are referring to. Good luck.

rw

[hifitommy]

thats why i keep about 5 or six mounted on headshells ready for swap out. stanton 881s, atML170, at440ML, shure vi5Vxmr, krell mc, ortofon mc 200, oc9. yup, they all do things differently and all have their areas of superiority. also, i never need to worry about wearing out a stylus as none gets THAT much wear at a time.

that may be why i dont worry about wearing out LPs either...4-5k of those. i slide in some sacd, and rbcd discs now and again as well. its all about the music.

i agree about the vta and the grado, ive had them before and never felt the mids to be thin.

the kontrapunkt b is available on audiogon for less than the 950 cited by dmk, and 2juki as well. HIGHLY recommended.

[DMK]

Consequently, I favor moving coil cartridges for their superior resolution and transient response IMHO.
rw

Absolutely agree. The MM cartridges I've listened to (Grado, Shure, Goldring) just don't compete in these areas, although I've never been able to fault their midrange capabilities. I much prefer a cartridge that is flat throughout the entire frequency spectrum rather than one that rolls off or sounds veiled when the going gets tough. My first listen to an MC cartridge was a revelation and I've never looked back.

[skeptic]

Do the moving magnet cartridges have a flat response while the moving coils have a high end peak or do the moving coils have the flat response while the moving magnet models have a high end rolloff? The frequency response graphs and square wave response photos tell the story. The answer is the first case. And the reason is very simple. When you think about it, the principle of converting a mechanical vibration into an electrical signal is the same for both designs, the magnetic lines of force of a permanent magnet breaking a coil of wire therby generating a voltage. The only difference is that in the moving magnet design, the magnet moves relative to a fixed coil while in the moving coil design, the coil moves relative to a fixed magnet. Which variant is better? The one with the lower dynamic mass. And that is clearly the moving magnet. While extremely small magnets can be very powerful for their intended function, the mass of a coil of copper wire is restricted by the gage of the copper and the number of turns of wire required as well as the spool. Also the compliance of the lead wires becomes a factor. The high mass results not only in substantially more inertia but in lower compliance styli assemblies and greater resonances. Also fewer turns of copper means lower voltage output necessating more electronic amplification.

However, whichever you choose, you can change the frequency response of the output using an equalizer or tone controls. Don't like the idea of equalization? Then consider this. Moving magnet or moving coil, the first thing that happens to the signal from the cartridge in the preamp is that it is equalized. Why? Ever hear of the RIAA curve? Do you know how microgroove long playing records are made? On recording the high frequency response of the tape is boosted so that the signal overcomes the surface background noise on the disc and the bass is cut so that it doesn't overmodulate the recording beyond the cartridge's ability to track it and to conserve space to make a long playing record possible. Upon playback, this frequency response equalization must be corrected for by processing it through an inverse equalizer. So you get equalization whether you like it or not. What cannot be compensated for is the high dynamic mass requiring greater tracking force to keep the record in the groove and make it follow the wiggles. Therefore, as a bonus for buying a MC cartridge, you get greater record and stylus wear on each playing and as a further added bonus, most MC cartridges have to go back to the factory for stylus replacement which is far more labor intensive than the three seconds it takes to slide one stylus out and another in for a MM cartridge.

[DMK]

Do the moving magnet cartridges have a flat response while the moving coils have a high end peak or do the moving coils have the flat response while the moving magnet models have a high end rolloff? The frequency response graphs and square wave response photos tell the story. The answer is the first case. And the reason is very simple. When you think about it, the principle of converting a mechanical vibration into an electrical signal is the same for both designs, the magnetic lines of force of a permanent magnet breaking a coil of wire therby generating a voltage. The only difference is that in the moving magnet design, the magnet moves relative to a fixed coil while in the moving coil design, the coil moves relative to a fixed magnet. Which variant is better? The one with the lower dynamic mass. And that is clearly the moving magnet. While extremely small magnets can be very powerful for their intended function, the mass of a coil of copper wire is restricted by the gage of the copper and the number of turns of wire required as well as the spool. Also the compliance of the lead wires becomes a factor. The high mass results not only in substantially more inertia but in lower compliance styli assemblies and greater resonances. Also fewer turns of copper means lower voltage output necessating more electronic amplification.

However, whichever you choose, you can change the frequency response of the output using an equalizer or tone controls. Don't like the idea of equalization? Then consider this. Moving magnet or moving coil, the first thing that happens to the signal from the cartridge in the preamp is that it is equalized. Why? Ever hear of the RIAA curve? Do you know how microgroove long playing records are made? On recording the high frequency response of the tape is boosted so that the signal overcomes the surface background noise on the disc and the bass is cut so that it doesn't overmodulate the recording beyond the cartridge's ability to track it and to conserve space to make a long playing record possible. Upon playback, this frequency response equalization must be corrected for by processing it through an inverse equalizer. So you get equalization whether you like it or not. What cannot be compensated for is the high dynamic mass requiring greater tracking force to keep the record in the groove and make it follow the wiggles. Therefore, as a bonus for buying a MC cartridge, you get greater record and stylus wear on each playing and as a further added bonus, most MC cartridges have to go back to the factory for stylus replacement which is far more labor intensive than the three seconds it takes to slide one stylus out and another in for a MM cartridge.

Please share with us any and all frequency response graphs you have on MC and MM cartridges. When's the last time you saw one? Many, many years ago - back when MC's had high end peaks? Granted, some still do and others can based on measurable parameters with other pieces of gear in the chain. But the problem you're citing is largely theoretical these days, along with most of the other problems associated with vinyl playback. Oh, and I have no problem with equalization. I simply prefer to get my system as transparent and neutral as possible first.

No question MM cartridges have some advantages - higher output, ease of stylus change. Sound is a disadvantage IMHO. There is less realism, less resolution, less detail. If being able to replace the stylus yourself is worth this, then by all means go for it. And record wear? Hmmm... I suppose records still wear out, but I haven't had that happen in many years. In fact, I still regularly play LP's from the 1950's. More record CARE = less record WEAR. And no one is dissing your Shure cartridge - at least no one who's ever spent any time with it. It's a world beater for $325. But it is NOT, and I repeat NOT the state of the art in cartridges - far from it. But there are other MM cartridges that are twice as expensive that aren't as good. There are even some MC's that bow to the Shure. But compared to a more expensive MC, the Shure comes up short. You disagree and that is your right. But don't cite some graphs and a bunch of theory and tell those of us who have heard better that MM's are the best cartridges - that ol' dog is too old and weak to hunt. We've heard the measurement schtick with digital, amps, preamps, tubes vs solid state and on and on ad nauseum. I prefer to listen, thanks.

Now, since arguing MC's vs MM's is hardly worthy of your talents, gimme an opinion that is. Do you prefer the Perlman or the Mintz reading of Paganini's Caprices? I have several different copies of these pieces by several different violinists and while I have picked these two as the two best, I can't decide which is better, if either. Little help? Which is your favorite, and why? I'd really like to know and talking music is WAY more interesting than talking gear, no?

[skeptic]

In my house, Heifetz is the gold standard by which all other violinists are measured. I'd have to see if I even have the others. One thing I can say. I'm not too impressed by Rugero Ricci's recording. Let me look around and see what recordings I've got. The only versions I've heard of it recently was a piano arrangement of the 24th and 9th by Liszt played by a Russian finalist in the 1994 Van Cliburn competition on Phillips and a guitar arrangement on Naxos. A version on viola was pure torture to listen to.

[E-Stat]

Do the moving magnet cartridges have a flat response while the moving coils have a high end peak or do the moving coils have the flat response while the moving magnet models have a high end rolloff?

Would you characterize the +/- 2db response from 20-20k of my Dynavector DV-20XL as possessing a high end peak?

http://www.dynavector.co.jp/english/...art/e_20x.html

One model up the Dynavector food chain is the Karat 17. You will find a B&K graph where it is within +/- 0.5 db from 20-20k.

http://www.dynavector.co.jp/english/...rt/e_17d2.html

Ever hear of the RIAA curve?

Sure. While I eschew the 30 hz rumble filter specification, I find the Dynavector models able to track the RIAA curve rather accurately, thank you very much. Frequency response is but one aspect of a phono cartridge's sound quality.

Oh, lest I forget. Let's discuss this canard:

Which variant is better? The one with the lower dynamic mass. And that is clearly the moving magnet.

Uh, no. I do, however, understand the concept. That's why I favor full range electrostatic speakers. There is neither wire nor magnets in the moving mass. Just 0.00065 inches thick of mylar. Back to cartridges. You may find some non-representative example of a heavier moving mass MC cartridge, but the opposite is usually true. Even 70 turns of 11 micron wire doesn't weight a whole bunch. Think of the other side of transducers. Most conventional speakers are of the moving coil variety. Can you imagine the (dreadful) transient response of a tweeter where the magnet was part of the moving mass? BTW, how many moving magnet loudspeakers are there on the market? A random check of various tweeters in all price ranges finds the mass of the magnetic structure to be 10 to 30 times that of the moving coil structure. LOL !!

rw

[DMK]

[QUOTE=E-Stat]Would you characterize the +/- 2db response from 20-20k of my Dynavector DV-20XL as possessing a high end peak?

http://www.dynavector.co.jp/english/...art/e_20x.html

One model up the Dynavector food chain is the Karat 17. You will find a B&K graph where it is within +/- 0.5 db from 20-20k.

http://www.dynavector.co.jp/english/...rt/e_17d2.html



I'd call that "essentially flat" which coincidentally is how Shure describes its flagship cartridge!