Digital Amp for $500?

[nightflier]

Does anyone know of any digital amps that are available out there that are a notch above the Sonic Impact T-amp ($20 @ ecost.com), but not in the unattainable price levels as the Yamaha MX-D1 or the D.A.C. 300.5? I was thinking in the $400-800 price range.

Actually that brings up another question. The T-amp is mass-produced for $20 and it compares favorably to much more expensive amps from well known companies in DBTs (lots of reviews online). So why do the MX-D1 and 300.5 cost $3-5K? I'm not saying there's no difference between the T-amp and these, but that's quite a premium for similar technology.

I think if there was a $500 high-power audiophile level amp out there, it would blow the market wide open. I know that Panasonic and Sharp have integrated and receiver type amps out there, but these low-power products aren't doing well in the marketplace. I wonder how a straight power amp for the hi-fi crowd would do out there instead...

[corwin99]

There are many affordable Digital amplifiers out there on the market... PS Audio makes one called the PS Audio HCA-2, and their new one the GCA is more expensive. Then there are the Carver ZR amps.. which use Tripath technology similar to the Sonic Impacts. Then there are the Sony ES Receivers that use some sort of Hybrid Digital Amp, and all the JVC and Panasonic Digital Receivers that people rave about.

Some Digital amps will cost more because of the type of Digital technology they are using.. the Yamaha seems to use some sort of Proprietary technology. Some amps use the ICEpower modules made by Bang and Olufsen which cost quite a bit. Actually I have a friend who is developing an amp based on the Icepower Modules, and they will be quite affordable. Jeff Rowland uses Icepower chips in their digital amps as well. There are probably a bunch more out there, but these are the ones that I can think of.

I have a PS Audio HCA-2, and they sound very good. If you want something closer to the Sonic Impact, try the Carver ZR1000.. it is quite cheap and said to be very good, especially with mods.

[kexodusc]

Dunno about amps, but those little Panny receivers are quite the sweet sounding little unit and very affordable. I think my next receiver could be a digital one if the gadgets and inputs are present.

Give it time.

[nightflier]

There are many affordable Digital amplifiers out there on the market... PS Audio makes one called the PS Audio HCA-2, and their new one the GCA is more expensive. Then there are the Carver ZR amps.. which use Tripath technology similar to the Sonic Impacts. Then there are the Sony ES Receivers that use some sort of Hybrid Digital Amp, and all the JVC and Panasonic Digital Receivers that people rave about.

Some Digital amps will cost more because of the type of Digital technology they are using.. the Yamaha seems to use some sort of Proprietary technology. Some amps use the ICEpower modules made by Bang and Olufsen which cost quite a bit. Actually I have a friend who is developing an amp based on the Icepower Modules, and they will be quite affordable. Jeff Rowland uses Icepower chips in their digital amps as well. There are probably a bunch more out there, but these are the ones that I can think of.

I have a PS Audio HCA-2, and they sound very good. If you want something closer to the Sonic Impact, try the Carver ZR1000.. it is quite cheap and said to be very good, especially with mods.

Corwin,

Thanks for the info. I didn't know the HCA-2 from PS-Audio was digital. It's still a bit pricey, though. The Carver is a bit more in the ballpark. The only thing I wonder, though, is if it is possible to get more watts out of a digital amp efficiently, why can't they do this at a more affordable price point. How about a 1000W amp for a good price (say $1K)

P.S. I heard that there were problems with the hybrid models and those that used Tripath (http://www.puredigitalaudio.org/digi...rs/index.shtml).

[topspeed]

There are two types of digital topologies that I am aware of: Tripath and ICE. Tripath is used by Spectron, Bel Canto, Sonic Impact, Panny and I think Carver. ICE is used by Jeff Rowland, PS Audio (although they used to call it SDAT), and ARC.

You can find good digital amps for less than $1K, but just because it is a switching amp doesn't automatically make it less expensive to produce. Don't forget, because of their inherent design and efficiency, switching amps are very sensitive to power supplies and the purity of said power. This is one of the reasons that PS Audio built a Ultimate Outlet power conditioner into the HCA2 (an amp I also have and enjoy very much). You still have caps and other hi quality parts that need to be considered. As with any hi-end product, the ultimate price will come down two things:
1) Materials
2) Market
No one builds a 1 kilowatt amp for $1k because they don't have to. The market will gladly pay much more!

[Feanor]

[QUOTE=topspeed]There are two types of digital topologies that I am aware of: Tripath and ICE. Tripath is used by Spectron, Bel Canto, Sonic Impact, Panny and I think Carver. ICE is used by Jeff Rowland, PS Audio (although they used to call it SDAT), and ARC.
...QUOTE]

There is a third, "traditional", non-proprietary digital approach, that is "pulse width modulation", PWM. I'm no expert but I think a major difference from Tripath and ICEpower is that it used a fixed sampling frequency from analog to digital, (i.e. switching rate), conversion were as the latter used a rate that varies with the musical content. (???)

I have heard people say that Panasonic XR units use Tripath, but I also heard others say that it uses a Texas Instruments chip. I'd like to know the truth: maybe some day I'll crack my XR25 receiver and see what's inside!

From what I hear, there is not inherently much saving in a digital amp. That is, for the given power output they require nearly equivalent power supplies, etc., to standard SS amps.

[corwin99]

A nice advantage of Digital amps is that they are usually load invariant. You can present them with a 4ohm load, 8ohm load, 2ohm load (anything in reason) and they will provide the same amount of stability and voltage gain regardless of the speaker impedance. They also tend to have a very high damping factor.. I see the words of Dmason from Audio Circle echoing in my head

Anyone here that is interested in Digital and hasn't tried it should really consider grabbing a Sonic Impact and modding it up to see what a $40 amp can do!

[topspeed]

There is a third, "traditional", non-proprietary digital approach, that is "pulse width modulation", PWM. I'm no expert but I think a major difference from Tripath and ICEpower is that it used a fixed sampling frequency from analog to digital, (i.e. switching rate), conversion were as the latter used a rate that varies with the musical content. (???)

All switching amps use PWM, regardless of topology. This is not bo be confused with Pulse Code Modulation (PCM) as used by cd players. I read an article that explained the difference between Tripath and ICE at one time, but I can't remember where and I'm too lazy to find it.

I have heard people say that Panasonic XR units use Tripath, but I also heard others say that it uses a Texas Instruments chip. I'd like to know the truth: maybe some day I'll crack my XR25 receiver and see what's inside!

They're the same thing. Tripath is based on TI technology.

From what I hear, there is not inherently much saving in a digital amp. That is, for the given power output they require nearly equivalent power supplies, etc., to standard SS amps.

Well, there are considerable saving to be had in relation to power consumption. Consider that Class A, and to a lesser extent Class A/B, amps consume energy even when not in use. Class A's in particular are notorious for frightening electrical bills and wasting a lot of that energy as heat. Switching amps consume no more than a night light when in standby and are around 90% efficient when in use. This is why they run so cool, even when driving tough loads at full tilt. Heat is a sure sign of inefficiency because it is simply wasted energy being burned off.

I know I'm a fanboy, but this PS Audio article explains switching amps better than anything else I've found. Stereophile also did a short article but this one is more in layman's terms in deference to, well...guy's like me .

[Geoffcin]

Corwin,

Thanks for the info. I didn't know the HCA-2 from PS-Audio was digital. It's still a bit pricey, though. The Carver is a bit more in the ballpark. The only thing I wonder, though, is if it is possible to get more watts out of a digital amp efficiently, why can't they do this at a more affordable price point. How about a 1000W amp for a good price (say $1K)

P.S. I heard that there were problems with the hybrid models and those that used Tripath (http://www.puredigitalaudio.org/digi...rs/index.shtml).

All of the related electronics that go into an amp; transformers, capacitors, MOSFET or bipolar transistors, would be pretty much the same for a Digital amp as a traditional one. A thousand watt amp would require much bigger, or more, of all of them so i doubt you would see one for $1000. Of course if you do want one, PS Audio sells one with 500wpc for $3995. That's quite a bargain compared to other 500wpc amps!