Is More watts better?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir T

You ignore the theory - this is not difficult. You could IN THEORY design a speaker that is 110db sensitive and can output 20hz. You can then design an amplifier that puts out 10 watts at 20hz. Do the math.

Math almost never plays out in the field using real equipment and real rooms as a reference.

No one does this because - A - the cost would be ridiculous and B the size of the subwoofer would likely be the size of a Hummer.

Hence why your example is very poor, there is no reference that supports it.

Big speakers almost always are easier to drive than small speakers - which is why the Joe Roberts of the world run massive speakers on small watts without sacrificing bass.

Size, efficiency, sensitivity.

Subwoofers are typically very small boxes putting out low bass at high levels - they sacrifice efficiency in order to achieve the results - but "IN THEORY" you could make the subwoofer 5 times larger with a much bigger woofer and have much more efficiency and sensitivity and then you could get the required bass with a lot less power to get them going.

Please show me a real world example of this so your theory has some actual support.

As I noted - in practice subwoofers tend to have CRAPPY efficiency which is why they need massive power - but it still comes down to impedance at the frequency

They have crappy efficiency because they handle frequencies that require a long throw high output driver to keep distortion down. Efficiency versus lower distortion and better transient response is the trade off. Everything has its trade off's.

The reason subs came to be popular was that receivers were lousy and could not output below 6 ohms - subs gave them fits.

Edit - Not just subs actually but any speaker that dropped the impedance would blow the receiver.

Another issue with bass - you mention volume at 112db most speakers do not have a response curve that is flat - typically bass frequencies of a speaker are 3-15db lower than their main band (midrange frequencies). Amps are not going to compensate for that. In my example speakers are rated usually at their 1khz band - so as an example

The AN E is 98db sensitive 6 ohm rated loudspeaker running a 30 watt Jinro SET amp (in corners with 18db gain from that position). Martin Colloms (chair of the AES, founder of Monitor Audio, Stereophile measurements go to guy, top of the class at Oxford Engineering measured them at 18hz -6db in room response). "at reasonable drive levels"

95db - 1watt
98db - 2w
101db - 4w
104db - 8 w
107 db -16w
110db - 32w

But the AN E's bass is still a full 6db lower than the main band. So there is no way - just looking at the math above that the speaker can produce 20hz at 108db - obviously (certainly not with that amp.

The lack of real detail in your responses show your are hedging just a bit. If we listened to sine waves, then you may have a point. However music sources are a cumulative media, which must take into consideration a amp that can handle a full bandwidth of signals in real time to be used as an example. There is no size of the room, and you made no specifics at just what exactly is a "reasonable" level. That is a individual floating target.

That having been said the minimum impedance of the AN E is 3.6 ohms and the amplifier has a 4 ohm tap. Therefore the Jinro will put out it's rated output to 4 ohms. Ignoring the 27 or 30 watt rating and using 16 watts as the guide you WILL get plenty of level into its lower registers. But obviously you won't get the level that top of the line subwoofers put out. Indeed, the only way the AN E does it if they are put extremely hard into corners which nets them an 18db gain in bass. Otherwise their tuning frequency is 29hz and that's the best you can get (and it's still 3db lower than the main band).

So you have effectively stated this speaker does not support your original assertions. Thanks!

But there is no reason someone could not simply design a HE subwoofer with a massive woofer that could belt it out with a 10 watt amp. The fact that no one has or does it because the thing would be too big and too expensive and unsalable.

It's still a function of the movement of air - big woofer pushes more air - lower frequencies. Small woofer has to move further to produce lower frequencies (hard to drive needs more power).

In all of these words you have posted, you have offered nothing to support them. Just theory, and no actual example.

That should tell you loads about your theory.