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  1. #251
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    He died for you, me, and all mankind. You either believe it or not.

    But not all mankind are christian.
    JohnMichael
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  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    That is exactly my point. God dosen't care if you are Christian, Muslim, Jew or Buddhist to get to heaven if you done good, so why such an exclusion from either religion. That is the part that puzzle me.
    God told you that?

  3. #253
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    God told you that?


    God called you and told you to be a hater in his name?
    JohnMichael
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  4. #254
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    Why am I a hater, I just participate here like every one else. I mean, if you want we could discuss this but you'd just go behind my back and delete my posts so what's the point.

  5. #255
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Why am I a hater, I just participate here like every one else. I mean, if you want we could discuss this but you'd just go behind my back and delete my posts so what's the point.



    Only when it is hateful and hurtful to a member less able to defend himself. I have dealt with religious bigotry all my life and I am not afraid of it. I have never deleted a post where you spoke against me. Now your PM's became quite tiresome.
    JohnMichael
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  6. #256
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    Oh JM, you are so noble! Allow me to change my opinion of you. Valiant even. I'm sure Feanor appreciates you having his back.

  7. #257
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey
    That is exactly my point. God dosen't care if you are Christian, Muslim, Jew or Buddhist to get to heaven if you done good, so why such an exclusion from either religion. That is the part that puzzle me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    God told you that?
    Are you suggesting that God does care what religion you practice? That he doesn't love all people equally?

  8. #258
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Are you suggesting that God does care what religion you practice? That he doesn't love all people equally?
    Only if you believe that judgement happens before death, which would explain things like AIDS...God's wrath as it were.

    That said, I still feel it necessary to point out that whether we support Reverend Dingbat it's important, crucial in fact, that we support his right of free speech.
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  9. #259
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Only if you believe that judgement happens before death, which would explain things like AIDS...God's wrath as it were.
    So much for benevolence.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    That said, I still feel it necessary to point out that whether we support Reverend Dingbat it's important, crucial in fact, that we support his right of free speech.
    Where is the line between free speech and hate crimes? I believe in free speech, but I have trouble supporting the burning of a religious book (and I'm an atheist!). I support free speech only when it does not violate someone else's rights. I think that reverend dingbat crossed a line.

  10. #260
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Are you suggesting that God does care what religion you practice? That he doesn't love all people equally?


    I have a theory that a believers impression of god is a reflection on their person. If they perceive god as petty and vindictive I suspect that they are petty and vindictive.
    JohnMichael
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  11. #261
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Are you suggesting that God does care what religion you practice? That he doesn't love all people equally?
    Isn't that what lead us to the problems we are having now? Muslums (or more correctly, some Muslums) want everyone who isn't a Muslum to be dead. This thread seems to have come full circle.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  12. #262
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Isn't that what lead us to the problems we are having now? Muslums (or more correctly, some Muslums) want everyone who isn't a Muslum to be dead. This thread seems to have come full circle.
    No GM, that's what people believe. I'm asking Mr. Peabody what he thinks God believes.

    And just to be clear, I'm not looking to pick a fight or insult anyone. Although I personally don't believe in god, I do respect the right of others to believe and to practive whatever religion they choose. I may not agree with you and I may even challenge you, but I'll never intentionally disrespect anyone for believing in god.

  13. #263
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Oh JM, you are so noble! Allow me to change my opinion of you. Valiant even. I'm sure Feanor appreciates you having his back.
    I do. I don't condemn people for what they are, only for their malevalent behaviors or attitudes of which JM shows none.

    Whatever full or partial support I get I'm glad of, but my own opinions are well researched and I don't rely on popular approval to adhere to them. I had a Protestant Christian upbringing and am well read, for a lay person, on Christian theology and history; I don't need instruction in that regard.

    On the subject of the Bible, this book is a compilation developed, (in its writen form), over a thousand year in diverse languages. And to read a English version, say the KJV, word by word as literal truth is absurd. Another book I read not long ago on this subject is ...

    Brad J. Ehrman: Misquoting Jesus: The Story behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

    ... Amazon.com

    BTW, Ehrman definitely consders himself a Christian. He was once a Fundamentalist, is now I suppose, a liberal Christian.

    For that matter, the above mentioned Chris Hedges still considers himself a Christian though maybe a skeptical one. He also wrote I Don't Believe in Atheists ...

    ... Amazon.com

  14. #264
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Where is the line between free speech and hate crimes? I believe in free speech, but I have trouble supporting the burning of a religious book (and I'm an atheist!). I support free speech only when it does not violate someone else's rights. I think that reverend dingbat crossed a line.
    Historically, we as a species have run into problems when speech becomes a crime. Also there is no inalienable right to not be offended and, as such, it's usually how progresss is made.
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  15. #265
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Isn't that what lead us to the problems we are having now? Muslums (or more correctly, some Muslums) want everyone who isn't a Muslum to be dead. This thread seems to have come full circle.
    In fact a small minority of Muslims. The Qu'ran and the Sunnah, (the complied precepts of Muhammad), insist on respectful tolerance for Christians and Jew. However attacks on Islam by Christians or Jew must be vigorously opposed according to these authorities. Thus the medieval Crusades, for example, were violently resisted.

    Unfortunately many Muslims regard that those Crusades have been renewed. They construe that colonial occupations of Muslim lands, the Zionist occupation of Palestine, continued Western support for Israel, support for the Shah of Iran, occupation of Afganistan and Iraq, and still ongoing support for unjust leaders of Muslim countries, were and are attacks on Islam. Well, that's an example of religion at work in the political arena.

  16. #266
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    No GM, that's what people believe. I'm asking Mr. Peabody what he thinks God believes.

    And just to be clear, I'm not looking to pick a fight or insult anyone. Although I personally don't believe in god, I do respect the right of others to believe and to practive whatever religion they choose. I may not agree with you and I may even challenge you, but I'll never intentionally disrespect anyone for believing in god.
    After I posted I realized that you might think that I was directing my comments at you. It wasnít meant that way. I know how sweet you are and that you were making a point.
    I meant just to say that the statement/question you made (and I know that you donít feel this way) of ďGod does care what religion you practice? That he doesn't love all people equally?Ē is the kind of thinking that some religious fanatics do believe in. And that it has lead to many problems.
    The whole, my religion is the best thinking, and all others will burn if they donít believe the same thing I do, is how we got to where we are now.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  17. #267
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Historically, we as a species have run into problems when speech becomes a crime. Also there is no inalienable right to not be offended and, as such, it's usually how progresss is made.
    I agree Mr. Styx. As much as this guy is a jerk, I don't hold him responsible for the actions of others. He didn't kill anyone. That said, if I saw him on the street, I'd probably call him an A-hole. (And I hope it offends him)
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  18. #268
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    In fact a small minority of Muslims. The Qu'ran and the Sunnah, (the complied precepts of Muhammad), insist on respectful tolerance for Christians and Jew. However attacks on Islam by Christians or Jew must be vigorously opposed according to these authorities. Thus the medieval Crusades, for example, were violently resisted.

    Unfortunately many Muslims regard that those Crusades have been renewed. They construe that colonial occupations of Muslim lands, the Zionist occupation of Palestine, continued Western support for Israel, support for the Shah of Iran, occupation of Afganistan and Iraq, and still ongoing support for unjust leaders of Muslim countries, were and are attacks on Islam. Well, that's an example of religion at work in the political arena.
    Yes. Religion and politics do not mix well. Anyone should be let to believe anything they want. It's when those beliefs translate into actions against others that I have a problem.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    After I posted I realized that you might think that I was directing my comments at you. It wasnít meant that way. I know how sweet you are and that you were making a point.
    I meant just to say that the statement/question you made (and I know that you donít feel this way) of ďGod does care what religion you practice? That he doesn't love all people equally?Ē is the kind of thinking that some religious fanatics do believe in. And that it has lead to many problems.
    The whole, my religion is the best thinking, and all others will burn if they donít believe the same thing I do, is how we got to where we are now.

    Don't forget, that with Christianity, being Christian is not enough to get your ticket to heaven, you have to be Born Again.

    As Swedenborg said, all religions are just different pathways to the same god.

  20. #270
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Don't forget, that with Christianity, being Christian is not enough to get your ticket to heaven, you have to be Born Again.

    As Swedenborg said, all religions are just different pathways to the same god.
    I was born once, and I've spent most of my adult life trying to get back into a....
    Does that count?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Hyfi, you peaked my curiosity but Matt 28 does not have a verse 28 and Mark 16:16 does not match what you wrote, 15 He said to them, ďGo into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons;

    JohnMichael, I must have done well because you seem quite proud of your title. And, the comment was made based on actions you commited against me so don't lead folks here to believe it was based on anything else.
    One extra 28 there, sorry

    Mat 28:8 So they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

    Mark 16:8 Then they went out and ran from the tomb, for terror and bewilderment had seized them. And they said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

    I just pulled out the Christian Life Bible which is quite the same as above:

    Matt 28-8 "So they went out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring his disciples the word.

    Mark 16-8 "So they went out quickly and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone for they were afraid.

    So either Matt or Mark is a liar, has bad memory, or the books were rewritten to say what they say. Bottom line is that they contradict each other in what is supposed to be true.

    They either told the disciples, or they told nobody, it can't be both. Oddly the second one from Mark references back to Matt in the Bible I am quoting as to point out that one is not the same as the other yet both were given the divine light and recollection of all things that were said and done many years earlier.

    With a simple google search, you can easily find hundreds of these contradictions so how is one supposed to believe the book to be the word of god and wholly true when they can't get 2 books talking about the same thing to say the same things? Just asking....



    I think you mistook the fact that I put the chapter then chapter and verse above.

  22. #272
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I never understood the concept of only christians entering heaven. Why would god create many types of people of different races, beliefs, only to deny his creations a place in heaven. When I think of the people I have met who think their place in heaven is guaranteed I wonder if they will be annoying for eternity.
    JohnMichael
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  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    I never understood the concept of only christians entering heaven. Why would god create many types of people of different races, beliefs, only to deny his creations a place in heaven. When I think of the people I have met who think their place in heaven is guaranteed I wonder if they will be annoying for eternity.
    I guess one thing people seem to forget is that
    1- Man was around for Millions of years before Religion was ever thought up.
    2- Religion was created by modern man to control other men and groups of peoples.

  24. #274
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    With a simple google search, you can easily find hundreds of these contradictions so how is one supposed to believe the book to be the word of god and wholly true when they can't get 2 books talking about the same thing to say the same things? Just asking.....
    It's the campfire theory...sit 20 people around a campfire, lean over to the first and whisper a story in his ear, have that person repeat the story in secret to the next, repeat until the chain is complete and compare stories.

    Now try the same thing over multiple generations in multiple languages.
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  25. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    It's the campfire theory...sit 20 people around a campfire, lean over to the first and whisper a story in his ear, have that person repeat the story in secret to the next, repeat until the chain is complete and compare stories.

    Now try the same thing over multiple generations in multiple languages.
    Nah, Mr P said that all 4 were given the same ability to recall events and conversations from many years earlier with total accuracy. Every version has it the same way, contradicting each other. If all 4 gospels were written by men with absolute abilities to recall events from many years earlier, they would all have remembered the same thing. But none of them were even there in the cited quotes so it's all here say from the start which is closer to what you pointed out.

    Bottom line is the Bible is the Word of Man telling a story of what man thinks god may have said, or wants him/her to have said. There is no proof otherwise and never will be.

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