Inglorious Basterds

[Worf101]

Took Junior with me last night. I enjoyed it on a filmic level. Being a Vet and a military historian I had to view it as Science Fiction or "the Ulitmate Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". The entire thing was so historically farcical that I'm amazed that the whole thing wasn't done in a Bobby Ewing like dream sequence or the daydream of some condemned prisoner in a Concentration Camp.

Still, I had a good time. It was a hoot and I loved the Spaghetti Western feel of the opening. Pitt's opening solleloquy was hilarious. Visually stunning and gory. Stunned by the "Jew Bear" tunnel sequence and plenty of others. Worth seeing. A-Minus.

Da Worfster

[Feanor]

Took Junior with me last night. I enjoyed it on a filmic level. Being a Vet and a military historian I had to view it as Science Fiction or "the Ulitmate Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". The entire thing was so historically farcical that I'm amazed that the whole thing wasn't done in a Bobby Ewing like dream sequence or the daydream of some condemned prisoner in a Concentration Camp.
...

Da Worfster

I know we're all supposed to love to hate Nazis and going just by the trailers Ingourious Basterds does come across as a "Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". On that basis I'm going to pass on it.

It's not that I don't hate Nazis but I really think the theme has be beaten to death over the years. I'm weary of it and it doesn't matter that Ingourious Basterds might happen to do it better than most.

No excuse for the Nazis, but the oppressive policies of Israeli state towards Palestinians through the years have revealed the hypocrisy of exploitive anit-Nazism in the post-war era. I'm calling the uncritical pro-Zionists in Holywood and elsewhere on this point.

[Worf101]

I know we're all supposed to love to hate Nazis and going just by the trailers Ingourious Basterds does come across as a "Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". On that basis I'm going to pass on it.

It's not that I don't hate Nazis but I really think the theme has be beaten to death over the years. I'm weary of it and it doesn't matter that Ingourious Basterds might happen to do it better than most.

No excuse for the Nazis, but the oppressive policies of Israeli state towards Palestinians through the years have revealed the hypocrisy of exploitive anit-Nazism in the post-war era. I'm calling the uncritical pro-Zionists in Holywood and elsewhere on this point.

I thoroughly understand your point, I don't particularly share it but I understand the pedegogy of the oppressed. They often take on the worst characteristics of their oppressors. However to expect Hollywood to be even handed or fair is foolish. I.B. maybe anti Nazi, but I don't view it as anti German. Three of the main heros are Germans and in the end the mission is accomplished with the complicity of a German. I don't think you can slam this one as anti German, it's just a fantasy. I honestly think you should see it first before you dismiss it out of hat. Seriously.

Da Worfster

[Feanor]

I thoroughly understand your point, I don't particularly share it but I understand the pedegogy of the oppressed. They often take on the worst characteristics of their oppressors. However to expect Hollywood to be even handed or fair is foolish. ...

Realistically I dare say you're right ... but people can call them on.

I think there is something missing when we use Nazis as we would space monsters or aliens -- child's nightmare objects of fear and loathing. Nazis were real enough, and real Nazis had the usual range of human character as well as nuanced explanations for their views.

...
I.B. maybe anti Nazi, but I don't view it as anti German. Three of the main heros are Germans and in the end the mission is accomplished with the complicity of a German. I don't think you can slam this one as anti German, it's just a fantasy. I honestly think you should see it first before you dismiss it out of hat. Seriously.

Da Worfster

We shall see. In general I've enjoyed, (well, at least appreciated), the Tarantino films I've seen. And too it wasn't the film in-and-of itself that I was objecting to so much as the relentless and stale Nazi bogeyman theme.

If you want to see a probing and sinister film on the subject of Nazi evil, check out the HBO, made for TV flick, Conspiracy by Frank Pierson, staring Kenneth Branagh.

[Worf101]

Realistically I dare say you're right ... but people can call them on.

I think there is something missing when we use Nazis as we would space monsters or aliens -- child's nightmare objects of fear and loathing. Nazis were real enough, and real Nazis had the usual range of human character as well as nuanced explanations for their views.



We shall see. In general I've enjoyed, (well, at least appreciated), the Tarentino films I've seen. And too it wasn't the film in-and-of itself that I was objecting to so much as the relentless and stale Nazi bogeyman theme.

If you want to see a probing and sinister film on the subject of Nazi evil, check out the HBO, made for TV flick, Conspiracy by Frank Pierson, staring Kenneth Branagh.

I'm glad we're discussing this passionately yet rationally. I always fear these discussions because they so quickly "devolve" into name calling flame wars. I've see "Conspiracy" several times. More on point, the History Channel aired a documentary based on the letters, home moives and photo's of SS Concentration Camp Guards. These relics showed them to, be, as few would expect, funny, caring whole human beings, not monsters. Normal human beings that did MONSTEROUS things.

That's the lesson so many refuse to learn. As I think the Berkley studied showed, almost ANYONE has the monster inside them. Students given authority quickly devolve into monsters despite the "peace and love" rhetoric of the times. What I will concede is that the rigid, social and patriarchal makeup of German Society made it easier in some respects for Naziism to take hold but the German people were/are no more evil than anyone else. However, there are many friends of mine, both Jew and Gentile who want none of this debate. Sigh...

Da Worfster

[Feanor]

....
That's the lesson so many refuse to learn. As I think the Berkley studied showed, almost ANYONE has the monster inside them. Students given authority quickly devolve into monsters despite the "peace and love" rhetoric of the times. What I will concede is that the rigid, social and patriarchal makeup of German Society made it easier in some respects for Naziism to take hold but the German people were/are no more evil than anyone else. However, there are many friends of mine, both Jew and Gentile who want none of this debate. Sigh...

Da Worfster

The Germans have long been flagallant about their role in the WWII and the Holocaust, (more so than say the Japanese who largely remain unrepentent). And yet I grew up with an older generation -- Jews and non-Jews as you suggest -- who would never hear a good thing said about any German -- people who will not buy a German car or listen to Wagner even today. It's hypocritical because the monster is in all of us as you say. And as I said, it is particularly egregious coming from uncritical supporters of the Israel state.

[Troy]

Feanor, stop talking about something you don't know anything about.

The last thing I'm gonna try to convince you to see it, because I really don't care if you do or not, but pontificating on how bored or insulted you are by this movie without ever actually seeing it just makes you look like a closed-minded old coot with way too much personal baggage. I find your politicization of Tarantino's motivations, or rather, your ill-conceived preconceptions of them, to be laughably off the mark.

If you ever do see IB, you're gonna realize how silly your comments are.

[Feanor]

Feanor, stop talking about something you don't know anything about.

The last thing I'm gonna try to convince you to see it, because I really don't care if you do or not, but pontificating on how bored or insulted you are by this movie without ever actually seeing it just makes you look like a closed-minded old coot with way too much personal baggage. I find your politicization of Tarantino's motivations, or rather, your ill-conceived preconceptions of them, to be laughably off the mark.

If you ever do see IB, you're gonna realize how silly your comments are.

Thanks for your comments.

If the whole, a large part, or a small part of a film offends me, I reserve the right not to see it. I dare say I've missed a few good films on this account. However there are plenty of good films to choose from and it's my choice.

[Troy]

If the whole, a large part, or a small part of a film offends me, I reserve the right not to see it. I dare say I've missed a few good films on this account. However there are plenty of good films to choose from and it's my choice.

But how do you know it's offensive if you haven't seen it? You are smart enough to know that trailers and reviews can be, and in this case are, misleading. Like I said, if you ever do see this movie, you'll be embarrassed by how you've seriously misjudged the content of this film. You are miles off the mark. Miles.

What I have seen and do find offensive is your hijacking of this thread for your own political soap-boxing. And I even agree with your views on Israel for the most part, but take them someplace else, because they have nothing whatsoever to do with this movie!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Feanor, stop talking about something you don't know anything about.

The last thing I'm gonna try to convince you to see it, because I really don't care if you do or not, but pontificating on how bored or insulted you are by this movie without ever actually seeing it just makes you look like a closed-minded old coot with way too much personal baggage. I find your politicization of Tarantino's motivations, or rather, your ill-conceived preconceptions of them, to be laughably off the mark.

If you ever do see IB, you're gonna realize how silly your comments are.

He could turn talk about an Underdog cartoon into a political debate.

Same 'ol same 'ol huh Bill?

[bobsticks]

Pathetically myopic worldviews held by some of y'all...and sadly not really surprising....I sincerely hope that ITRW none of y'all are doctors...it'd be a shame to watch the patient die while several of you fixate on the symptoms...

These are my least favorite threads that appear on this forum.

Troy, I'm sorry your thread got hijacked...it started as a well-thought, compelling review...thank you for the effort; I'm gonna go see this flick...