Inglorious Basterds

[Troy]

Oh man, Inglorious Bastards is a riot. Ignore the ads, Pitt's role is actually pretty small (but funny and well played). It's a WWII espionage thriller with homages to other WWII spy classics like Notorious, as well as 5-star WWII classics like Dirty Dozen and Kelly's Heroes. QT even uses some of the awesome KH music at one point in the climax. The spag-western vibe QT sometimes plays up is lifted right from KH.

It's way more graphically violent than any of his other films (which is saying a lot, but it really does make Reservoir Dogs look like a Disney flick), but as always, it's so absurd that it wanders into cartoon territory. The pace is a bit leisurely at times (2:30+ hours), but it's a very complex story with many tangents and colorful characters who need their own set up scenes. Most of the actors are German and French, well known in Europe, but not the US. The 2 female leads are glamorous and sexy and I hope they get more work in American films. Amazing acting by Christoph Waltz as the SS "Jew Hunter" Hans Lander too. It's an orscar® worthy breakout performance. What a juicy, menacing, role of a lifetime.

It uses all the techniques and stylistic gags you expect from QT; incongruous music (Bowie in a WWII movie, WTF? But it felt so right!), freeze framed violence, quirky camera angles, goofy captions, and eliptical, minutia-filled conversations. Like the rest of his movies, it's a dazzling, kaleidoscopic experience.

There are some absolute knock out scenes like the particularly tense, shocking and memorable basement bar sequence or the "Italian" scene in the theater lobby that had the audience howling. And the enormously satisfying and surreal climax! I won't give it away, but it's something that I've never seen in a WWII movie before, and in thinking about it, I'm not sure why that is . . . it's extremely clever, making me really remember why QT is such an important director.

[thekid]

Just got back from it and my son and I both concur it is a 8 out 10. Pitt is very very good and almost every line is delivered perfectly. Not your typical WWII for reasons that become obvious pretty early. A highly entertaining film and I am not a Tarantino fan.

[Worf101]

Thanks guys.... Might go see it tomorrow.

Da Worfster

[emaidel]

Far and away the best thing Tarentino has ever done. Just plain terrific from start to finish. And would that such stuff actually happened...

[emaidel]

Far and away the best thing Tarentino has ever done. Just plain terrific from start to finish. And would that such stuff actually happened...

Make that ""TarAntino." My bad.

[nightflier]

What about the gore, violence, and torture scenes? Over the top Hostel-style, or just regular good-for-a-hesitating-laugh QT style?

[Troy]

What about the gore, violence, and torture scenes? Over the top Hostel-style, or just regular good-for-a-hesitating-laugh QT style?

Very much in the over the top QT style.

[nightflier]

Thanks. I think I'm going to skip this one, then.

[Worf101]

Took Junior with me last night. I enjoyed it on a filmic level. Being a Vet and a military historian I had to view it as Science Fiction or "the Ulitmate Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". The entire thing was so historically farcical that I'm amazed that the whole thing wasn't done in a Bobby Ewing like dream sequence or the daydream of some condemned prisoner in a Concentration Camp.

Still, I had a good time. It was a hoot and I loved the Spaghetti Western feel of the opening. Pitt's opening solleloquy was hilarious. Visually stunning and gory. Stunned by the "Jew Bear" tunnel sequence and plenty of others. Worth seeing. A-Minus.

Da Worfster

[Feanor]

Took Junior with me last night. I enjoyed it on a filmic level. Being a Vet and a military historian I had to view it as Science Fiction or "the Ulitmate Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". The entire thing was so historically farcical that I'm amazed that the whole thing wasn't done in a Bobby Ewing like dream sequence or the daydream of some condemned prisoner in a Concentration Camp.
...

Da Worfster

I know we're all supposed to love to hate Nazis and going just by the trailers Ingourious Basterds does come across as a "Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". On that basis I'm going to pass on it.

It's not that I don't hate Nazis but I really think the theme has be beaten to death over the years. I'm weary of it and it doesn't matter that Ingourious Basterds might happen to do it better than most.

No excuse for the Nazis, but the oppressive policies of Israeli state towards Palestinians through the years have revealed the hypocrisy of exploitive anit-Nazism in the post-war era. I'm calling the uncritical pro-Zionists in Holywood and elsewhere on this point.

[Worf101]

I know we're all supposed to love to hate Nazis and going just by the trailers Ingourious Basterds does come across as a "Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". On that basis I'm going to pass on it.

It's not that I don't hate Nazis but I really think the theme has be beaten to death over the years. I'm weary of it and it doesn't matter that Ingourious Basterds might happen to do it better than most.

No excuse for the Nazis, but the oppressive policies of Israeli state towards Palestinians through the years have revealed the hypocrisy of exploitive anit-Nazism in the post-war era. I'm calling the uncritical pro-Zionists in Holywood and elsewhere on this point.

I thoroughly understand your point, I don't particularly share it but I understand the pedegogy of the oppressed. They often take on the worst characteristics of their oppressors. However to expect Hollywood to be even handed or fair is foolish. I.B. maybe anti Nazi, but I don't view it as anti German. Three of the main heros are Germans and in the end the mission is accomplished with the complicity of a German. I don't think you can slam this one as anti German, it's just a fantasy. I honestly think you should see it first before you dismiss it out of hat. Seriously.

Da Worfster

[Feanor]

I thoroughly understand your point, I don't particularly share it but I understand the pedegogy of the oppressed. They often take on the worst characteristics of their oppressors. However to expect Hollywood to be even handed or fair is foolish. ...

Realistically I dare say you're right ... but people can call them on.

I think there is something missing when we use Nazis as we would space monsters or aliens -- child's nightmare objects of fear and loathing. Nazis were real enough, and real Nazis had the usual range of human character as well as nuanced explanations for their views.

...
I.B. maybe anti Nazi, but I don't view it as anti German. Three of the main heros are Germans and in the end the mission is accomplished with the complicity of a German. I don't think you can slam this one as anti German, it's just a fantasy. I honestly think you should see it first before you dismiss it out of hat. Seriously.

Da Worfster

We shall see. In general I've enjoyed, (well, at least appreciated), the Tarantino films I've seen. And too it wasn't the film in-and-of itself that I was objecting to so much as the relentless and stale Nazi bogeyman theme.

If you want to see a probing and sinister film on the subject of Nazi evil, check out the HBO, made for TV flick, Conspiracy by Frank Pierson, staring Kenneth Branagh.

[ForeverAutumn]

Thanks for the reviews. Although I don't like violent movies there's something about the way that QT directs the violence that allows me to overlook most of it.

I was stuck in a hotel room yesterday morning while my husband was off golfing (I was too sick with a cold to join him) and ended up watching a half hour entertainment show that was dedicated to this film and interviewing the cast. Although I was only half paying attention, the show made me want to see this. Not sure when we'll have time, but its definately high on my list.

[RGA]

I don't think you can really bring in today's middle east argument into a film about A jewish fantasy revenge tale. I have not seen IB yet either.

I've been reading for years the arguments back and forth on Palestine and Israel and you know after siding with both - it's very difficult to me to see how people can WHOLLY side with Palestine or with Israel - and that may be the biggest problem ecause no one can see the "other guy's" concerns. I definitely see why Israel is paranoid that if they give an inch - to the countries surrounding them that have their leaders OPENLY call for Israeli genocide. Documented historical fact - when the leader of Egypt says he wants every last jew murdered then it's tough to not take that personal and tough to really believe what they claim later. But it's also tough to not sympathise with an occupying group with complete control over your freedoms. And that fact that an outside country gave your land away.

I suppose even the people like myself who feel for both sides - will still end up choosing one side a little more.

[Feanor]

I don't think you can really bring in today's middle east argument into a film about A jewish fantasy revenge tale. I have not seen IB yet either.
... .

Well I don't think it's such a stretch.

...
I've been reading for years the arguments back and forth on Palestine and Israel and you know after siding with both - it's very difficult to me to see how people can WHOLLY side with Palestine or with Israel - and that may be the biggest problem ecause no one can see the "other guy's" concerns. I definitely see why Israel is paranoid that if they give an inch - to the countries surrounding them that have their leaders OPENLY call for Israeli genocide. Documented historical fact - when the leader of Egypt says he wants every last jew murdered then it's tough to not take that personal and tough to really believe what they claim later. But it's also tough to not sympathise with an occupying group with complete control over your freedoms. And that fact that an outside country gave your land away.

I suppose even the people like myself who feel for both sides - will still end up choosing one side a little more.

Yes, that's what's true and so sad: both sides here are to blame and I would go so far as to say that when it comes to rhetoric, the worst has come from the Palestinians.

It's not hard to understand the attitude of an actual Israeli citizen; what is a difficult to justify from an ethical or practical point of view is the Israel right-or-wrong attitude of the U.S. pro-Israel lobby. Do you want long-term security for Israel? Or do you want a modicum of historical justice and self-determination for the Palestinian people? You don't have to choose: peace based in a two-state solution will serve both, and presently the Israeli government in the hands by right-wingers in the country are the main obstacle. It is almost entirely on account of unconditional support from the U.S. that they arrogantly refuse to make the necessary accomodations.

[nightflier]

While the case for the state of Israel is perhaps a bit off-topic, we are talking about a revenge fantasy film, aren't we? What if this revenge had actually occurred? Would the state of Israel have been created? The two are not that far off, ultimately.

We can all cheer for justice, and considering the odium of Nazi violence (against more than just Jews, BTW - try being of African decent in 1944 Germany). The point is that if such cruelty and violence is in all of us, then perhaps this film might as well be a vicarious outlet for all our unspeakably violent tendencies. There isn't a nation or ethnic/religious group out there who hasn't committed violence of the same caliber as the Nazis in the 30-40's. Even if it wasn't on the same scale, the viciousness was still there.

I do commend Feanor for asking what Tarentino's motives were in making this film. That's a question we should ask of any director or writer, especially when it involves such loaded themes as Nazism, Jewishness, war, revenge, cruelty, etc. Tarentino, perhaps more than any other director, has certainly had a track record of pushing the envelope of what should and should not be talked about, seen or heard. So let's talk about it.

There are no correct answers, but let me just finish with this little gem I heard a while back: "The state of Israel should have been created inside Germany, from a good chunk of it."

[ForeverAutumn]

I think that the key word being bandied about here that everyone is missing is FANTASY. This is not a true story. It's not based on a true story. Tarantino wrote a piece of FICTION.

I haven't seen the movie so I'm not about to critique or criticize or pass judgement on it. But I don't see where the Isreal/Palestinian conflict has anything to do with this movie.

Some of you jumped all over Mr. Peabody when he went political on GMichael's thread about his wife becoming a citizen. At least his question to GM was relevant.

[Feanor]

I think that the key word being bandied about here that everyone is missing is FANTASY. This is not a true story. It's not based on a true story. Tarantino wrote a piece of FICTION.

It certainly IS a fantasy. But I guess you missed my point. The Nazis were real, not space aliens or horror movie monsters. At the outset I was simply objecting to the theme of bashing of dehumanized Nazis, which by now is a cheap and stale Holywood cliché.

Let me ask those who have seen this film. Does Tarantino mock the dehumanized Nazi bashing cliché? Or does he merely exploit it? If the former, I'll reconsider this particular movie.

[3LB]

At the outset I was simply objecting to the theme of bashing of dehumanized Nazis, which by now is a cheap and stale Holywood cliché.

QT isn't beyond being cliche, or cheap, as is evident by his pawnshop/Deliverence scene in Pulp Fiction.

Does Tarantino mock the dehumanized Nazi bashing cliché? Or does he merely exploit it? If the former, I'll reconsider this particular movie.

I haven't seen it, but how can you mock the the dehumanized Nazi bashing cliché w/o being exploitive? How would you mock the the dehumanized Nazi bashing cliché?

Its my expectation that any attempt by QT to delve into an established genre is to "turn it on its ear" so to speak. Yeah, I can see how you might want to take issue with what you've already pointed out to be cliché but do you think moviemakers are going to leave the subject alone if it makes money? Yes, I agree that Nazis as comicbook style baddies in movies has become cliché, but how else are you going to portray Nazis in a film like this? I don't think this film was ever presented as an indepth exploration of Nazism, WWII or US middle-east policy since. Being a QT film I ssupect its supposed to be funny in a twisted, uncomfortable QT kinda way.

In comedy or action movies, I think its an unspoken rule that Nazis have to be portrayed as uptight fuktards - its a parody of their own vision of themselves. Or you could put 'em in a kickline...

[bobsticks]

Yeah...y'know, I wouldn't wanna fight me either...

[3LB]

I might see it, but I'll prolly wait until I can rent it. I've never been a huge fan of Tarantino. He borrows way too much to be a visionary IMO. He borrows plot devices, scenes, and his movies are edited for TV anyway, which easily explains most of his camera angles and approach to shooting scenes. I do find his way of intergrating minutia-detailed dialog (as Troy put it) in the weirdest spots to be entertaining but his movies as a whole have become a tad predictable in their forced unpredictability - when you expect the unexpected all the time, you don't buy into what yer watching at the moment...I feel QT has become a tad hackish in this regard. I guess one could say the same for Paul Verhoven (a director I like for better or worse).

Brad Pitt has that ability to convincingly play oddballs and flakes much the way Paul Newman could, so I'm not surprised he's a hoot. But if his role isn't that significant, well, that's a shame, but I think QT movies are for QT fans, no matter who is in them.

[Rich-n-Texas]

ITRW = In The Real World.

I'm going to go see this also. The impression I got from the trailer I saw on TV is that Brad's role in the movie is a perfect fit for a QT directed film and Troy's description of it just reinforces what I already thought.

[nightflier]

Sticks, you lost me. What's eating you about the thread?

[bobsticks]

Sticks, you lost me. What's eating you about the thread?

The fact that peeps are pre-judging without ever seeing and placing judgements based modern-day contextual nuances that have nothing to do with the story in question.

Suddenly the thread has become some historically-revisionist tale of the emotional delpth of the Nazi's...a justification of sorts and semi-hollow bashing of Israel without any analysis as to the origins of the many problematic issues that face that particular region of the globe.

[Feanor]

The fact that peeps are pre-judging without ever seeing and placing judgements based modern-day contextual nuances that have nothing to do with the story in question.

Suddenly the thread has become some historically-revisionist tale of the emotional delpth of the Nazi's...a justification of sorts and semi-hollow bashing of Israel without any analysis as to the origins of the many problematic issues that face that particular region of the globe.

If you accusing somebody of being a crypto-Nazi, perhaps you'd like to quit the innuendo and name him (or her).

Also with respect to the supposed "bashing ... Israel without any analysis ...", perhaps you'd like to discuss the origins of issued that aren't being analysed.

Or if not, maybe you'd like to STFU.