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  1. #1
    Close 'n Play® user Troy's Avatar
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    Inglorious Basterds

    Oh man, Inglorious Bastards is a riot. Ignore the ads, Pitt's role is actually pretty small (but funny and well played). It's a WWII espionage thriller with homages to other WWII spy classics like Notorious, as well as 5-star WWII classics like Dirty Dozen and Kelly's Heroes. QT even uses some of the awesome KH music at one point in the climax. The spag-western vibe QT sometimes plays up is lifted right from KH.

    It's way more graphically violent than any of his other films (which is saying a lot, but it really does make Reservoir Dogs look like a Disney flick), but as always, it's so absurd that it wanders into cartoon territory. The pace is a bit leisurely at times (2:30+ hours), but it's a very complex story with many tangents and colorful characters who need their own set up scenes. Most of the actors are German and French, well known in Europe, but not the US. The 2 female leads are glamorous and sexy and I hope they get more work in American films. Amazing acting by Christoph Waltz as the SS "Jew Hunter" Hans Lander too. It's an orscar® worthy breakout performance. What a juicy, menacing, role of a lifetime.

    It uses all the techniques and stylistic gags you expect from QT; incongruous music (Bowie in a WWII movie, WTF? But it felt so right!), freeze framed violence, quirky camera angles, goofy captions, and eliptical, minutia-filled conversations. Like the rest of his movies, it's a dazzling, kaleidoscopic experience.

    There are some absolute knock out scenes like the particularly tense, shocking and memorable basement bar sequence or the "Italian" scene in the theater lobby that had the audience howling. And the enormously satisfying and surreal climax! I won't give it away, but it's something that I've never seen in a WWII movie before, and in thinking about it, I'm not sure why that is . . . it's extremely clever, making me really remember why QT is such an important director.

  2. #2
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    Just got back from it and my son and I both concur it is a 8 out 10. Pitt is very very good and almost every line is delivered perfectly. Not your typical WWII for reasons that become obvious pretty early. A highly entertaining film and I am not a Tarantino fan.

  3. #3
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reviews...

    Thanks guys.... Might go see it tomorrow.

    Da Worfster

  4. #4
    Aging Smartass
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    Far and away the best thing Tarentino has ever done. Just plain terrific from start to finish. And would that such stuff actually happened...

  5. #5
    nightflier
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    What about the gore, violence, and torture scenes? Over the top Hostel-style, or just regular good-for-a-hesitating-laugh QT style?

  6. #6
    Close 'n Play® user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    What about the gore, violence, and torture scenes? Over the top Hostel-style, or just regular good-for-a-hesitating-laugh QT style?
    Very much in the over the top QT style.

  7. #7
    Aging Smartass
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    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    Far and away the best thing Tarentino has ever done. Just plain terrific from start to finish. And would that such stuff actually happened...

    Make that ""TarAntino." My bad.

  8. #8
    nightflier
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    Thanks. I think I'm going to skip this one, then.

  9. #9
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Well....

    Took Junior with me last night. I enjoyed it on a filmic level. Being a Vet and a military historian I had to view it as Science Fiction or "the Ulitmate Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". The entire thing was so historically farcical that I'm amazed that the whole thing wasn't done in a Bobby Ewing like dream sequence or the daydream of some condemned prisoner in a Concentration Camp.

    Still, I had a good time. It was a hoot and I loved the Spaghetti Western feel of the opening. Pitt's opening solleloquy was hilarious. Visually stunning and gory. Stunned by the "Jew Bear" tunnel sequence and plenty of others. Worth seeing. A-Minus.

    Da Worfster

  10. #10
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reviews. Although I don't like violent movies there's something about the way that QT directs the violence that allows me to overlook most of it.

    I was stuck in a hotel room yesterday morning while my husband was off golfing (I was too sick with a cold to join him) and ended up watching a half hour entertainment show that was dedicated to this film and interviewing the cast. Although I was only half paying attention, the show made me want to see this. Not sure when we'll have time, but its definately high on my list.

  11. #11
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    "Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    Took Junior with me last night. I enjoyed it on a filmic level. Being a Vet and a military historian I had to view it as Science Fiction or "the Ulitmate Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". The entire thing was so historically farcical that I'm amazed that the whole thing wasn't done in a Bobby Ewing like dream sequence or the daydream of some condemned prisoner in a Concentration Camp.
    ...

    Da Worfster
    I know we're all supposed to love to hate Nazis and going just by the trailers Ingourious Basterds does come across as a "Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". On that basis I'm going to pass on it.

    It's not that I don't hate Nazis but I really think the theme has be beaten to death over the years. I'm weary of it and it doesn't matter that Ingourious Basterds might happen to do it better than most.

    No excuse for the Nazis, but the oppressive policies of Israeli state towards Palestinians through the years have revealed the hypocrisy of exploitive anit-Nazism in the post-war era. I'm calling the uncritical pro-Zionists in Holywood and elsewhere on this point.

  12. #12
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Welp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I know we're all supposed to love to hate Nazis and going just by the trailers Ingourious Basterds does come across as a "Jewish Nazi Revenge Fantasy". On that basis I'm going to pass on it.

    It's not that I don't hate Nazis but I really think the theme has be beaten to death over the years. I'm weary of it and it doesn't matter that Ingourious Basterds might happen to do it better than most.

    No excuse for the Nazis, but the oppressive policies of Israeli state towards Palestinians through the years have revealed the hypocrisy of exploitive anit-Nazism in the post-war era. I'm calling the uncritical pro-Zionists in Holywood and elsewhere on this point.
    I thoroughly understand your point, I don't particularly share it but I understand the pedegogy of the oppressed. They often take on the worst characteristics of their oppressors. However to expect Hollywood to be even handed or fair is foolish. I.B. maybe anti Nazi, but I don't view it as anti German. Three of the main heros are Germans and in the end the mission is accomplished with the complicity of a German. I don't think you can slam this one as anti German, it's just a fantasy. I honestly think you should see it first before you dismiss it out of hat. Seriously.

    Da Worfster

  13. #13
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    I thoroughly understand your point, I don't particularly share it but I understand the pedegogy of the oppressed. They often take on the worst characteristics of their oppressors. However to expect Hollywood to be even handed or fair is foolish. ...
    Realistically I dare say you're right ... but people can call them on.

    I think there is something missing when we use Nazis as we would space monsters or aliens -- child's nightmare objects of fear and loathing. Nazis were real enough, and real Nazis had the usual range of human character as well as nuanced explanations for their views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    ...
    I.B. maybe anti Nazi, but I don't view it as anti German. Three of the main heros are Germans and in the end the mission is accomplished with the complicity of a German. I don't think you can slam this one as anti German, it's just a fantasy. I honestly think you should see it first before you dismiss it out of hat. Seriously.

    Da Worfster
    We shall see. In general I've enjoyed, (well, at least appreciated), the Tarantino films I've seen. And too it wasn't the film in-and-of itself that I was objecting to so much as the relentless and stale Nazi bogeyman theme.

    If you want to see a probing and sinister film on the subject of Nazi evil, check out the HBO, made for TV flick, Conspiracy by Frank Pierson, staring Kenneth Branagh.
    Last edited by Feanor; 09-01-2009 at 11:57 AM.

  14. #14
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    I'm glad...

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Realistically I dare say you're right ... but people can call them on.

    I think there is something missing when we use Nazis as we would space monsters or aliens -- child's nightmare objects of fear and loathing. Nazis were real enough, and real Nazis had the usual range of human character as well as nuanced explanations for their views.



    We shall see. In general I've enjoyed, (well, at least appreciated), the Tarentino films I've seen. And too it wasn't the film in-and-of itself that I was objecting to so much as the relentless and stale Nazi bogeyman theme.

    If you want to see a probing and sinister film on the subject of Nazi evil, check out the HBO, made for TV flick, Conspiracy by Frank Pierson, staring Kenneth Branagh.
    I'm glad we're discussing this passionately yet rationally. I always fear these discussions because they so quickly "devolve" into name calling flame wars. I've see "Conspiracy" several times. More on point, the History Channel aired a documentary based on the letters, home moives and photo's of SS Concentration Camp Guards. These relics showed them to, be, as few would expect, funny, caring whole human beings, not monsters. Normal human beings that did MONSTEROUS things.

    That's the lesson so many refuse to learn. As I think the Berkley studied showed, almost ANYONE has the monster inside them. Students given authority quickly devolve into monsters despite the "peace and love" rhetoric of the times. What I will concede is that the rigid, social and patriarchal makeup of German Society made it easier in some respects for Naziism to take hold but the German people were/are no more evil than anyone else. However, there are many friends of mine, both Jew and Gentile who want none of this debate. Sigh...

    Da Worfster

  15. #15
    Close 'n Play® user Troy's Avatar
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    Feanor, stop talking about something you don't know anything about.

    The last thing I'm gonna try to convince you to see it, because I really don't care if you do or not, but pontificating on how bored or insulted you are by this movie without ever actually seeing it just makes you look like a closed-minded old coot with way too much personal baggage. I find your politicization of Tarantino's motivations, or rather, your ill-conceived preconceptions of them, to be laughably off the mark.

    If you ever do see IB, you're gonna realize how silly your comments are.

  16. #16
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Feanor, stop talking about something you don't know anything about.

    The last thing I'm gonna try to convince you to see it, because I really don't care if you do or not, but pontificating on how bored or insulted you are by this movie without ever actually seeing it just makes you look like a closed-minded old coot with way too much personal baggage. I find your politicization of Tarantino's motivations, or rather, your ill-conceived preconceptions of them, to be laughably off the mark.

    If you ever do see IB, you're gonna realize how silly your comments are.
    Thanks for your comments.

    If the whole, a large part, or a small part of a film offends me, I reserve the right not to see it. I dare say I've missed a few good films on this account. However there are plenty of good films to choose from and it's my choice.
    Last edited by Feanor; 09-01-2009 at 11:56 AM.

  17. #17
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    ....
    That's the lesson so many refuse to learn. As I think the Berkley studied showed, almost ANYONE has the monster inside them. Students given authority quickly devolve into monsters despite the "peace and love" rhetoric of the times. What I will concede is that the rigid, social and patriarchal makeup of German Society made it easier in some respects for Naziism to take hold but the German people were/are no more evil than anyone else. However, there are many friends of mine, both Jew and Gentile who want none of this debate. Sigh...

    Da Worfster
    The Germans have long been flagallant about their role in the WWII and the Holocaust, (more so than say the Japanese who largely remain unrepentent). And yet I grew up with an older generation -- Jews and non-Jews as you suggest -- who would never hear a good thing said about any German -- people who will not buy a German car or listen to Wagner even today. It's hypocritical because the monster is in all of us as you say. And as I said, it is particularly egregious coming from uncritical supporters of the Israel state.

  18. #18
    RGA
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    I don't think you can really bring in today's middle east argument into a film about A jewish fantasy revenge tale. I have not seen IB yet either.

    I've been reading for years the arguments back and forth on Palestine and Israel and you know after siding with both - it's very difficult to me to see how people can WHOLLY side with Palestine or with Israel - and that may be the biggest problem ecause no one can see the "other guy's" concerns. I definitely see why Israel is paranoid that if they give an inch - to the countries surrounding them that have their leaders OPENLY call for Israeli genocide. Documented historical fact - when the leader of Egypt says he wants every last jew murdered then it's tough to not take that personal and tough to really believe what they claim later. But it's also tough to not sympathise with an occupying group with complete control over your freedoms. And that fact that an outside country gave your land away.

    I suppose even the people like myself who feel for both sides - will still end up choosing one side a little more.

  19. #19
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I don't think you can really bring in today's middle east argument into a film about A jewish fantasy revenge tale. I have not seen IB yet either.
    ... .
    Well I don't think it's such a stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    ...
    I've been reading for years the arguments back and forth on Palestine and Israel and you know after siding with both - it's very difficult to me to see how people can WHOLLY side with Palestine or with Israel - and that may be the biggest problem ecause no one can see the "other guy's" concerns. I definitely see why Israel is paranoid that if they give an inch - to the countries surrounding them that have their leaders OPENLY call for Israeli genocide. Documented historical fact - when the leader of Egypt says he wants every last jew murdered then it's tough to not take that personal and tough to really believe what they claim later. But it's also tough to not sympathise with an occupying group with complete control over your freedoms. And that fact that an outside country gave your land away.

    I suppose even the people like myself who feel for both sides - will still end up choosing one side a little more.
    Yes, that's what's true and so sad: both sides here are to blame and I would go so far as to say that when it comes to rhetoric, the worst has come from the Palestinians.

    It's not hard to understand the attitude of an actual Israeli citizen; what is a difficult to justify from an ethical or practical point of view is the Israel right-or-wrong attitude of the U.S. pro-Israel lobby. Do you want long-term security for Israel? Or do you want a modicum of historical justice and self-determination for the Palestinian people? You don't have to choose: peace based in a two-state solution will serve both, and presently the Israeli government in the hands by right-wingers in the country are the main obstacle. It is almost entirely on account of unconditional support from the U.S. that they arrogantly refuse to make the necessary accomodations.
    Last edited by Feanor; 09-02-2009 at 06:53 AM.

  20. #20
    Close 'n Play® user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    If the whole, a large part, or a small part of a film offends me, I reserve the right not to see it. I dare say I've missed a few good films on this account. However there are plenty of good films to choose from and it's my choice.
    But how do you know it's offensive if you haven't seen it? You are smart enough to know that trailers and reviews can be, and in this case are, misleading. Like I said, if you ever do see this movie, you'll be embarrassed by how you've seriously misjudged the content of this film. You are miles off the mark. Miles.

    What I have seen and do find offensive is your hijacking of this thread for your own political soap-boxing. And I even agree with your views on Israel for the most part, but take them someplace else, because they have nothing whatsoever to do with this movie!

  21. #21
    nightflier
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    While the case for the state of Israel is perhaps a bit off-topic, we are talking about a revenge fantasy film, aren't we? What if this revenge had actually occurred? Would the state of Israel have been created? The two are not that far off, ultimately.

    We can all cheer for justice, and considering the odium of Nazi violence (against more than just Jews, BTW - try being of African decent in 1944 Germany). The point is that if such cruelty and violence is in all of us, then perhaps this film might as well be a vicarious outlet for all our unspeakably violent tendencies. There isn't a nation or ethnic/religious group out there who hasn't committed violence of the same caliber as the Nazis in the 30-40's. Even if it wasn't on the same scale, the viciousness was still there.

    I do commend Feanor for asking what Tarentino's motives were in making this film. That's a question we should ask of any director or writer, especially when it involves such loaded themes as Nazism, Jewishness, war, revenge, cruelty, etc. Tarentino, perhaps more than any other director, has certainly had a track record of pushing the envelope of what should and should not be talked about, seen or heard. So let's talk about it.

    There are no correct answers, but let me just finish with this little gem I heard a while back: "The state of Israel should have been created inside Germany, from a good chunk of it."

  22. #22
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    I think that the key word being bandied about here that everyone is missing is FANTASY. This is not a true story. It's not based on a true story. Tarantino wrote a piece of FICTION.

    I haven't seen the movie so I'm not about to critique or criticize or pass judgement on it. But I don't see where the Isreal/Palestinian conflict has anything to do with this movie.

    Some of you jumped all over Mr. Peabody when he went political on GMichael's thread about his wife becoming a citizen. At least his question to GM was relevant.

  23. #23
    3LB
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    I might see it, but I'll prolly wait until I can rent it. I've never been a huge fan of Tarantino. He borrows way too much to be a visionary IMO. He borrows plot devices, scenes, and his movies are edited for TV anyway, which easily explains most of his camera angles and approach to shooting scenes. I do find his way of intergrating minutia-detailed dialog (as Troy put it) in the weirdest spots to be entertaining but his movies as a whole have become a tad predictable in their forced unpredictability - when you expect the unexpected all the time, you don't buy into what yer watching at the moment...I feel QT has become a tad hackish in this regard. I guess one could say the same for Paul Verhoven (a director I like for better or worse).

    Brad Pitt has that ability to convincingly play oddballs and flakes much the way Paul Newman could, so I'm not surprised he's a hoot. But if his role isn't that significant, well, that's a shame, but I think QT movies are for QT fans, no matter who is in them.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Feanor, stop talking about something you don't know anything about.

    The last thing I'm gonna try to convince you to see it, because I really don't care if you do or not, but pontificating on how bored or insulted you are by this movie without ever actually seeing it just makes you look like a closed-minded old coot with way too much personal baggage. I find your politicization of Tarantino's motivations, or rather, your ill-conceived preconceptions of them, to be laughably off the mark.

    If you ever do see IB, you're gonna realize how silly your comments are.


    He could turn talk about an Underdog cartoon into a political debate.

    Same 'ol same 'ol huh Bill?

  25. #25
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Right about that

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    I think that the key word being bandied about here that everyone is missing is FANTASY. This is not a true story. It's not based on a true story. Tarantino wrote a piece of FICTION.
    It certainly IS a fantasy. But I guess you missed my point. The Nazis were real, not space aliens or horror movie monsters. At the outset I was simply objecting to the theme of bashing of dehumanized Nazis, which by now is a cheap and stale Holywood cliché.

    Let me ask those who have seen this film. Does Tarantino mock the dehumanized Nazi bashing cliché? Or does he merely exploit it? If the former, I'll reconsider this particular movie.
    Last edited by Feanor; 09-02-2009 at 07:12 AM.

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