If Romney gets in which country will America start a war with next?

[markw]

You're right that the rancor isn't just caused by this one movie. However if you don't recall the like directed at the USA back in 2008, you must have being napping at the time.

What has changed is that the rancor isn't suppressed today as it was back then by dictators in places like Libya and Egypt.

So, you're saying that brutal, oppressive, dictatorships are the only thing that works in the ME?

Perhaps that's so, but don't you find it odd that two countries we helped "liberate" were the first to stab us in the back?

First, there's Libya, who we helped free from Qaddafi, and we allowed them to oust (by inaction) Mubarak in Egypt, one of our oldest allies. ...and then all the little duckies fell in line.

Boy, Obama sure can pick 'em, can't he? Whose side is this schmuck on, anyway.

And, no, the e was not this hatred in 2008. I was alive and sentient then. Apparently, you were under the influence of some strong meds if you think it was this ugly.

[Feanor]

So, you're saying that brutal, oppressive, dictatorships are the only thing that works in the ME? ...

No, and I didn't say that -- on the contrary.

By the "thing that works" I guess you mean what suppresses latent anti-Americanism? I don't call that working. Hello! the dictators' suppression increased anti-Americanism.

...
Perhaps that's so, but don't you find it odd that two countries we helped "liberate" were the first to stab us in the back?

First, there's Libya, who we helped free from Qaddafi, and we allowed them to oust (by inaction) Mubarak in Egypt, one of our oldest allies. ...and then all the little duckies fell in line. ....

The USA can take credit for everything that happens in the world. Equally there are things it can't prevent happening, whether good or bad. But this isn't for lack of trying.

In fact trying to trying control things in various countries in aid of supposed "American interests" is precisely what has provoked the anti-American we see today, that provoked 9-11, and that will continue until the USA adopts a radically different approach to foreign affairs. And mere acceptance, passive or active, of the overthrow of a few dictators won't be enough.

[frenchmon]

No, and I didn't say that -- on the contrary.

By the "thing that works" I guess you mean what suppresses latent anti-Americanism? I don't call that working. Hello! the dictators' suppression increased anti-Americanism.


The USA can take credit for everything that happens in the world. Equally there are things it can't prevent happening, whether good or bad. But this isn't for lack of trying.

In fact trying to trying control things in various countries in aid of supposed "American interests" is precisely what has provoked the anti-American we see today, that provoked 9-11, and that will continue until the USA adopts a radically different approach to foreign affairs. And mere acceptance, passive or active, of the overthrow of a few dictators won't be enough.

+1

[markw]

No, and I didn't say that -- on the contrary

Yeah, you did. Man up.

By the "thing that works" I guess you mean what suppresses latent anti-Americanism? I don't call that working. Hello! the dictators' suppression increased anti-Americanism

No, I mean killing anyone they don't agree with. Saddam was no friend of Iran if I recall correctly and even tried to take Kuait and was preparing to move on Saudi Arabia. Did your dementia wipe that from your memory?

The USA can take credit for everything that happens in the world.

If you're referring t our turning the tide of WW1 and WW2, casting an umbrella (and manning it with our troops) over all of Europe (and Canada) for over sixty years, rebuilding Germany, Japan and a goodly portion of the rest of the world, then I thank you for noticing it.

Equally there are things it can't prevent happening, whether good or bad. [I]But this isn't for lack of trying.

Well, like I said in my initial post, since he threw Mubarak under the bus and helped Libya oust Quadaffi to play kissy-face with the muzzies, we'll never know. Let's just say that whan it comes for his choice who to back here, he "chose unwisely". And IIRC, wasn't Canada in charge of the attack on Libya? Youse guyz got to wear big daddy's shoes and play with his big guns, just like the big boys. How did it feel?

In fact trying to trying control things in various countries in aid of supposed "American interests" is precisely what has provoked the anti-American we see today, that provoked 9-11, and that will continue until the USA adopts a radically different approach to foreign affairs. And mere acceptance, passive or active, of the overthrow of a few dictators won't be enough.

Let's be honest here. Our work has kept you, and the rest of the world, safe for over sixty years so far. ...but you gained more than the rest of the world by your proximity to us and safely cowering in our shadow. Don't try to play the all-wise-and-knowing guru when your participation in world affairs amounts essentially to a fart in a windstorm. That goes for you personally as well. Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

It's a good thing that most of your country sees the truth. They know how much they have benefited from us. Of course, very few post here.

[Feanor]

...
Let's be honest here. Our work has kept you, and the rest of the world, safe for over sixty years so far. ...but you gained more than the rest of the world by your proximity to us and safely cowering in our shadow. Don't try to play the all-wise-and-knowing guru when your participation in world affairs amounts essentially to a fart in a windstorm. That goes for you personally as well. Jealousy is an ugly emotion.

It's a good thing that most of your country sees the truth. They know how much they have benefited from us. Of course, very few post here.

This is the astonishing thing that a few Americans, such as you, feel they can so handily dismiss criticism of the USA as being purely ingratitude or jealousy. That is, despite the truth that the criticisms comprise, they are nevertheless invalid on this account.

This is numb-brained, bigoted anti-intellectualism at its worst.

[dingus]

This is the astonishing thing that a few Americans, such as you, feel they can so handily dismiss criticism of the USA as being purely ingratitude or jealousy. That is, despite the truth that the criticisms comprise, they are nevertheless invalid on this account.

This is numb-brained, bigoted anti-intellectualism at its worst.

and good old-fashioned American arrogance at its best...

yes, some honesty would help. the absurdity of the situation would be laughable if it werent so dire. the core of the problems lies primarily with apathy and ignorance on behalf of the US populace. add to that the strategy of divide and conquer the citizenry by our 2 major political parties, an inept and corrupt Congress, the commonplace practice of buying legislation, its plain to see that things aint about to get better any time soon.

[GMichael]

So, I guess a group hug is out of the question then?

[markw]

This is the astonishing thing that a few Americans, such as you, feel they can so handily dismiss criticism of the USA as being purely ingratitude or jealousy. That is, despite the truth that the criticisms comprise, they are nevertheless invalid on this account.

This is numb-brained, bigoted anti-intellectualism at its worst.

We can take justified criticism but when this country has done so much good for so many, it's aggravating to see how those that benefited from it are so quick to turn on it. As for you, I can almost sense some semblance of life in your flaccid manhood whenever you're typing out,with trembling hands,your latest diatribe vilifying the US. Does it make you feel like almost a man again?

But.since this forum has become less of a useful audio forum, at least it serves some good as a venting post for a few canadians who like to trash the US, much like fleas biting the dog that provides them with their life.

As for dingles, how has Obama done anything to improve the situation for the common person?. All I can see he's done is raise the unemployment rate, given stimulus money to his campaign contributors, put totally useless people in positions of power and given the bankers a free ride, not to mention that he's saddled my grand-kids with debt that they most likely be able to pay off in their lifetime. Oh yeah, and he's made friends with the Arab world, just like he promised he would do before the election

[Feanor]

...
As for dingles, how has Obama done anything to improve the situation for the common person?. All I can see he's done is raise the unemployment rate, given stimulus money to his campaign contributors, put totally useless people in positions of power and given the bankers a free ride, not to mention that he's saddled my grand-kids with debt that they most likely be able to pay off in their lifetime. Oh yeah, and he's made friends with the Arab world, just like he promised he would do before the election

Whatever, but elect Romney and he will make things worse in every way that I can think of.

An austerity fiscal policy designed to pander to international finance combined with a Neocon foreign policy will sink the USA.

[markw]

Whatever, but elect Romney and he will make things worse in every way that I can think of.

Your thought process is so full of bile and bitter hatred for the US that it's of no concern to me or anyone that's in a position to take it seriously, if there is any. Like I said, I see this forum is a public service to let you vent rather than get hold of a gun and start picking off Americans.

An austerity fiscal policy designed to pander to international finance combined with a Neocon foreign policy will sink the USA.

And the giveaway policy barry sweet-toe embarked on is better? He's out to bankrupt us in case you haven't noticed. ...and our current foreign policy is so much better than four years ago? Really? REALLY?

Yeah, your thinking is a laugh. I'm glad that nobody outside of here takes you seriously and actually, I'm not too sure they don't just like to get you all wound up just to watch you spin like a dreidel. I know I do.

[dingus]

....As for dingles, how has Obama done anything to improve the situation for the common person?. All I can see he's done is raise the unemployment rate, given stimulus money to his campaign contributors, put totally useless people in positions of power and given the bankers a free ride, not to mention that he's saddled my grand-kids with debt that they most likely be able to pay off in their lifetime. Oh yeah, and he's made friends with the Arab world, just like he promised he would do before the election

keep on trotting out the inane talking points, it makes you sound like a wacko tea-bagger. do you think that because i am anti Romney, then i must be pro Obama? the only thing i've said about Obama is that he's a status quo politician, and i dont see either him or Mitt the Twit doing anything for the common person. he's carried forward most of the Bush Administration policies. as for the points you've listed above, yeah, he's carried all of those forward from the Bush Administration as well.

its the idiot masses, toeing the party line that have allowed us to get into this mess. you need to aim much higher than thinking that your party being better than the other party is good enough. both the Republican and Democratic parties are pathetic and despicable. together they have effectively sacrificed the common good solely for the sake of beating the other side. neither is deserving of your respect or support.

[markw]

HERE ya go. Learn something.

It's called the lesser of two evils. Ever heard of that?

I'm not exacly pro Romney, but after the way Obama made things so much worse in his short time in office and seeing his appointments, I sure want him out before he can do even more damage and instill more of his America weakening agenda.

Now, if someone better came along, I'd be open to suggestion but to keep this loser in simply because of his charisma, color,r party affiliation, or whatever is simply stupid. It's too bad the MSM considered to assassinate Ron Paul.

Oh, you might want to take in 2016 Obama's America. It brings up some interesting points.

[RGA]

I've never really understood Anti-Americanism. It seems to imply that Feanor and I guess me hate Americans. Seriously?

It's like saying I hate Chinese people because I don't like their government. But I have no ill will to the people because they are ruled by regime.

Mark raises fair points - one that the U.S. does do a lot of good around the world. People may argue that it comes at a price etc - but it DOES come. Everyone is quick to jump on the negatives and slow to pay a compliment.

I've said before that I felt that democrats were better suited to a world stage in the "perception" department. Not necessarily reality but certainly for travelers abroad. In Asia which is financial U.S. hotbed and ally Americans would be spit on (literally) just for walking down the street (Under the Bush regime).

I lived in Seoul and knew many members of the U.S. military and U.S. teachers working and living in South Korea. (This is an ally and a big ally of the U.S.) U.S. foreign policy and Bush basically turned friends into enemies. Some Korean friends truly believe that the U.S. fuels the north south conflict to be able to keep their presence in South Korea and close to China - not to mention giving Americans jobs in the army/navy/airforce.

The stupid thing about this spitting or anti-americanism was that without exception the Americans were all wonderful, friendly, hospitable, open and downright "nice" people (hell I dated an American Girl there for 6 months). The two worst people I've ever met in all my years worked at my school there and they were Canadian. In fact the other 4 Canadians were uptight rejects as well. The only three people I liked were Americans and me (you gotta like yourself since you have to live with you for a long time).

I think the issue is not anti-amricanism - I think the term should be "Anti-Republicansim" and even that term is unfair since The republicans of yesteryear was a completely different animal than what the party has become.

I think everyone has to be "critical" of the people in charge. I absolutely HATE the group that is running my province and I HATE the people running the country. If an American said he hated our PM and our leaders I would not view that as an Anit-Canadian comment but an Anti-government comment.

Plenty of Americans HATE our medical systems - but that's just it - they criticize the Canadian Health Plan and taxes and military but I don't view that as Anti-Canadian - that's anti-program and anti-policy.

There were thousands and thousands of Americans throughout history who have stood up to fight the U.S government policy or State level policy from slavery to the Vietnam War. These Americans were not Anti-American - they were anti-policy. They stood up and said no more.

Take Abortion - a touchy subject - currently legal. It is not Anti-American to say the law sucks and I want legal abortion to end. I am pro-choice but there are plenty of very strong arguments well reasoned for Pro-Life. It's not anti-American to fight a law you see as wrong.

The unfortunate thing for the U.S. is that they are essentially the big boy on the ball field. It's like when you choose your line-up and you see the big kid you want him to bat clean-up. The U.S. has HUGE influence on a world stage and thus other countries and their policy and their people are greatly affected. Indeed, Americans abroad may get spit on or not (or worse) based on who is elected.

Certainly, Americans have to vote their own self interest and not vote based on what some guy in South Korea or Germany or Japan think.

If you really believe that Romney is honest, true to his word, cares about the middle class and poor, and wants to line American's pockets not just the rich then he may be your man.

The bottom line is most Americans living abroad IMO are worldly. If they're not doing missionary work - they tend to be lefties. Even in the U.S. Military which surprised me I confess.

The governments don't really drastically change policy so at the end of the day what is the "real" argument?


Personally I think it has absolutely nothing to do with employment rates - 6% or 11% - really who cares - it only matters to the people in those percents. If you are one of the 6% you are mad - if you're in the 11% you are mad. If you're not you don't much care other than it's a talking point in an argument.


What it's really about is domestic conservative policy and the bible versus the liberal sex crazed lefty world they;'re afraid to support.

Left wing voters tend to be in the following camp:

Pro Gay Marriage or at least would not oppose it.
Pro Stem Cell Research
Pro-Choice
Talk first and shoot only if absolutely necessary
Soft on soft drugs - Marijuana
What you do or who you do in your home (assuming legal age and consent) is fine by us.
Free speech - against government or religion
Evidence and trials - detention with evidence and no torture.
Evolution is fact and they accept it as such.
It's true that people kill people not guns but people can kill a lot more people with automatic guns. A hunting rifle to go hunting - seems reasonable - Uzies do not.
Separation of church and state. Ccurrently 7 U.S States BAN anyone who is Atheist from holding Public Office.
Anti-death penalty
Medical for all (not profiting on the suffering of others).
Global Warming is real
No Racial Profiling
Your a girl who is trapped in a man's body and wants the operation we're sympathetic to your plight we won't lynch you.
You want to be gay in the Army or on a football team we could care less.



Basically the above list is pretty much what a lefty or democrat believes in. There will be exceptions with some of them but not many. So why does everyone blather on about the economy - the president barely makes a blip on that. It's the domestic stuff where I suspect the votes in any country truly come from.

Seriously, can any person of religious right wing conviction POSSIBLY EVER vote for the left and the above list? Seriously. It's not that the Mormon poster is voting Romney because he's a Mormon - he said that because it was a polite way to say - there is no way I am voting for a pro-choice, Gay is OK party.

It's just not going to ever happen. I don't care if Obama kills another Bin Laden and reduces the employment rate to absolute 0 and eliminates all disease and cures the common cold - he's fine with Gay Marriage and Pro Choice and that's the end of the discussion. You WILL NOT get a righty vote no matter what the hell else you do.

This is the reason none of the right wing voters even acknowledge what a horrific mess Bush left Obama or that Obama could not undue some of the later Bush policies.

But it's the list above that gets the votes - nothing to do with money.

[frenchmon]

So, you're saying that brutal, oppressive, dictatorships are the only thing that works in the ME?

Perhaps that's so, but don't you find it odd that two countries we helped "liberate" were the first to stab us in the back?

First, there's Libya, who we helped free from Qaddafi, and we allowed them to oust (by inaction) Mubarak in Egypt, one of our oldest allies. ...and then all the little duckies fell in line.

Boy, Obama sure can pick 'em, can't he? Whose side is this schmuck on, anyway.

And, no, the e was not this hatred in 2008. I was alive and sentient then. Apparently, you were under the influence of some strong meds if you think it was this ugly.

I betcha you think Obama is a Muslim don't you?