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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
Are those Westboro bozos the ones that demonstrate at GI funerals saying that god is punishing them for gays in the military?
Yes they are and they protest other funerals.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMichael
Yes they are and they protest other funerals.
That surely helps to promote good will, love, tolerance, forgiveness, peace, understanding, acceptance.....oh wait, that sounds like they should be Christian.
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Yo can always count on this cess-pool ofa site for one thing.
The thinly veiled hate and jealousy is palpable on this site.
As I said in a post last year, someone always finds a way to turn any thread into a Christian bashing fest.
Thanks for proving me right, as usual.
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"The problem with faith ..." The problem with it is that it doesn't demand empirical evidence or accept rational argument.
So, Richard, I suggest you & I give it a rest for now.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
The thinly veiled hate and jealousy is palpable on this site.
As I said in a post last year, someone always finds a way to turn any thread into a Christian bashing fest.
Thanks for proving me right, as usual.
Wait, no prejudice here, we are bashing all religions just the same. But, only Christians are defending theirs.
"All religions are just different pathways to the same God"
Emanual Swedenborg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMichael
Bump. You demand answers from me faster than you give them. I am finished here.
JM...im not perfect, and really don't see what the problem is in telling me what I missed seeing I dont know what I missed.....sorry.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
Are those Westboro bozos the ones that demonstrate at GI funerals saying that god is punishing them for gays in the military?
Yeah they are the ones....They are a perfect example of those who are following after a misguided pastor.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
That surely helps to promote good will, love, tolerance, forgiveness, peace, understanding, acceptance.....oh wait, that sounds like they should be Christian.
If you want to call them Christians, well make sure you call them misguided and extreme who take the bible out of context. There is no biblical bsis for what they are doing.
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Ok I'm done with this conversation...let get back to politics....I hope I have not lost a good friend in JM?
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Are you really that stupid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
Wait, no prejudice here, we are bashing all religions just the same. But, only Christians are defending theirs.
"All religions are just different pathways to the same God"
Emanual Swedenborg
What members of other religions post here?
I really gave you more credit that that. I guess I was wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
What members of other religions post here?
I really gave you more credit that that. I guess I was wrong.
Just being sarcastic about all this fun stuff, but I really don't need your credit.
I also have no idea what religions everyone that posts here are, and neither do you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
The problem with faith is that it leads to killing, intolerance and hate. The 9/11 bombers had faith - about as much faith as you could ever have if you're willing to strap a giant gas bomb onto your back and fly yourself into a building. The Westboro Baptist Church folks have plenty of faith too - so much so that they're willing to take on America's churches for not being faithful enough.
Yeah, but faith in what is the question. Faith from a wrong foundation is misguided faith.
Quote:
The onus is to prove a positive not a negative; therefore, the religious have to prove there is a God.
Prove it to who RCA?
Quote:
But science and the arts have disproven numerous religious teachings..
Example please.
Quote:
Earth is not the center of the universe (or flat)
Evolution is fact - creationism is bogus claptrap
Noah could not have put two of every animal on the boat
Dinosaurs did not live with man
Dinosaurs were real
The earth is billions of years old and not 6000 years old.
So tell me how they proved these wrong before I answer.
Quote:
The sky God is illogical on numerous fronts but the "I want to believe in God and so should you because I believe" is dangerous. As you can see from all the people who take it too far "Westboo Baptist Church" types.
The Sky God? You lost me here. But again, why base all of christianity on what Westboo does or say?
Quote:
Let's start with the logic faults of any sky god. In every case they are said to be:
Omnipotent: All Powerful
Omniscience: Universal or Complete knowledge.
So this is God (or Q from Star Trek)
What on earth are you talking about? What is a sky God?
Quote:
Free Will:
Galations 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
(Might be worthy to note at this point, that I discovered a contradiction in the bible while researching... see the galations 5 text above, and compare to Ephesians 1:11, "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will". Which appears to be stating we don't have free will, but are bound by the "grand scheme" that god has put together.)
RGA....you have it wrong. You need to read in context. The author of Galatians is talking about Jewish converts and Gentiles believers who where deceived into going back to the old ways of the Mosaic law/Torah. Christ death freed Israel from the Torah, thus making no distinction in Jews and Gentiles. So they where totally free from the Mosaic law....and a new covenant was ushered in... It has nothing to do with the Ephesians passage which is stating that believers now have an inheritance in Christs according to the will of God, which has always been.
RGA, I think I will stop it there. I would like to see your response to the above before I continue on....if you care to continue on. Because I am sure you have taken everything else out of context as well.
Infact...if you want to continue this and not trash the intent of this thread any more, perhaps JM can move us to another section?
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Frenchmon, if I may take a stab at one of your questions
Sky God
I would say he is talking about the God that Christians believe in where they see Him (never her) as an entity that sits on a throne in a make believe place called Heaven and wields his judgements on all of us sinners.
In reality, God is an energy source, the outcome or maybe even the cause of the big bang. Nobody will prove it one way or another in our lifetime or many to come.
The faith part comes in because people have Faith that the Sky God will Judge them justly and allow them into Heaven because they asked for forgiveness.
I don't buy into all of this and never really have. I do believe we are all spiritually connected by the energy I mentioned above. We are all one as well as everything around us. We are made from the same building blocks and atoms that were spewed out during the big bang.
I will not tell people that believing and having their faith is wrong, just not for me. What I do find odd is that as Christians get older and more scared as to afterlife, Heaven or Hell, they start trying to buy their way in to heaven.
I have spent many years going to different churches and reading many books and came up with something that works for me. I incorporate bits of all of them since for the most part, they are all after the same thing. What I do object to are the rituals and fluff that has nothing to do with being good to everyone around you and treating others the way you would like to be treated.
I try to live by a similar code as those preached by Jesus, and many others already said the same things before he was ever born, but without an Organized Religion to collect my money and give me false hopes.
Don't even get me started on Tithing and the way it is used to make you feel guilty.
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I was asked by one member to close this thread. I am not sure that would be appropriate since I moved it into the Steel Cage. The member who started the thread was not the one asking for it to be closed. Remember you always have the choice not to participate. I would like to have ForeverAutumn and bobsticks opinion on this one.
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I vote to shut it down only because it has become a circular jerk and in the end, there is no winner, right or wrong, or finite conclusions when it comes to religion and/or politics.
But, as you said, nobody is forced to read it or reply to it. But it is like a multi car pileup that you just have to keep staring at as you drive by slowly.
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Aw, keep it open.
It shows the world what kind of people hang out here.
I'll bet it makes the management so proud to see their forum used tas a venue to spew hate..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
Yeah they are the ones....They are a perfect example of those who are following after a misguided pastor.
He is not their pastor, he is their father, grandfather and great grandfather. This is nothing more than a family and extended family. There are no members outside of this one family in the so called "church".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
Yeah, but faith in what is the question. Faith from a wrong foundation is misguided faith.
Prove it to who RCA?
Example please.
So tell me how they proved these wrong before I answer.
The Sky God? You lost me here. But again, why base all of christianity on what Westboo does or say?
What on earth are you talking about? What is a sky God?
RGA....you have it wrong. You need to read in context. The author of Galatians is talking about Jewish converts and Gentiles believers who where deceived into going back to the old ways of the Mosaic law/Torah. Christ death freed Israel from the Torah, thus making no distinction in Jews and Gentiles. So they where totally free from the Mosaic law....and a new covenant was ushered in... It has nothing to do with the Ephesians passage which is stating that believers now have an inheritance in Christs according to the will of God, which has always been.
RGA, I think I will stop it there. I would like to see your response to the above before I continue on....if you care to continue on. Because I am sure you have taken everything else out of context as well.
Infact...if you want to continue this and not trash the intent of this thread any more, perhaps JM can move us to another section?
Frenchy, you are casting pearls before a swine here. RGA does not like religion, does not believe in God, and takes 300,000 words to say what he can say in 10.
By continuing to engage with RGA, you just give him a full platform to post his ignorance and lack of comprehension regarding the Bible.
Personally, I think we should all eat Barbeque, drink beer, have a group hug, and sing kumbaya in four part harmony. Wait, RGA can't participate in that.......
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
It shows the world what kind of people hang out here.
.
You hang out here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
You hang out here
He doesn't hang out here, he spews up here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
He doesn't hang out here, he spews up here.
The main point is that he is no different than those he has accused of being a hater. Not even sure where that came from tho. RGA or others don't hate people because they believe differently, they just respectfully disagree and challenge them.
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Not really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
You hang out here
While I'll occasionally drop off some technical know-how, I much prefer to drop into the off topic forum to dump a baby-ruth in the pool. It's fun to tease the natives.
That's the only real action here. All the other forums here are generally just more of the same from the same misanthropic inbreds that post here. New blood goes running for the hills. ...and rightly so.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
While I'll occasionally drop off some technical know-how, I much prefer to drop into the off topic forum to dump a baby-ruth in the pool.
That's pretty obvious
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Hey, this forum encourages that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
That's pretty obvious
Virtually all other "real" audio forums have limits on what topics can be discussed and, if you've ever noticed, they generally have a healthy post count and new members come and go on a regular basis, not to mention no lack of advertisers. IOW, they run a class act and still manage to thrive and grow.
I remember in "the old days" when AR actually had a presence in the NY Hi-Fi shows. But, that's when this was a real site, not a sham that depends on potty talk and a refuge for a few malcontents who enjoy stroking each others egos.
I guess the management here is desperate to keep what they have and allow this trash-talk in order to not chase away the few people that still frequent here.
Wallow happily, my friends. When you wallow, think AR.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
Virtually all other "real" audio forums have limits on what topics can be discussed and, if you've ever noticed, they generally have a healthy post count and new members come and go on a regular basis, not to mention no lack of advertisers. IOW, they run a class act and still manage to thrive and grow.
I remember in "the old days" when AR actually had a presence in the NY Hi-Fi shows. But, that's when this was a real site, not a sham that depends on potty talk and a refuge for a few malcontents who enjoy stroking each others egos.
I guess the management here is desperate to keep what they have and allow this trash-talk in order to not chase away the few people that still frequent here.
Wallow happily, my friends. When you wallow, think AR.
So why are you here? Don't you have a better place for all your input? If you are so disgruntled with this place, have your account deleted and go away, you won't be missed. Anyway, I can see your same old stuff on the other forums.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
So why are you here? Don't you have a better place for all your input? If you are so disgruntled with this place, have your account deleted and go away, you won't be missed. Anyway, I can see your same old stuff on the other forums.
Same as you others. I like to spew, too. This is my vent.
If you'll notice, my input here on 9/12 or so was fairly innocuous and was in keeping with the original subject.
You boys took it from there. Don't try to lay your off-topic shiite on me. I didn't direct the flow. Y'all did.
and, I do help those that I can on occasion .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
Frenchmon, if I may take a stab at one of your questions
Sky God
I would say he is talking about the God that Christians believe in where they see Him (never her) as an entity that sits on a throne in a make believe place called Heaven and wields his judgements on all of us sinners.
In reality, God is an energy source, the outcome or maybe even the cause of the big bang. Nobody will prove it one way or another in our lifetime or many to come.
The faith part comes in because people have Faith that the Sky God will Judge them justly and allow them into Heaven because they asked for forgiveness.
I don't buy into all of this and never really have. I do believe we are all spiritually connected by the energy I mentioned above. We are all one as well as everything around us. We are made from the same building blocks and atoms that were spewed out during the big bang.
I will not tell people that believing and having their faith is wrong, just not for me. What I do find odd is that as Christians get older and more scared as to afterlife, Heaven or Hell, they start trying to buy their way in to heaven.
I have spent many years going to different churches and reading many books and came up with something that works for me. I incorporate bits of all of them since for the most part, they are all after the same thing. What I do object to are the rituals and fluff that has nothing to do with being good to everyone around you and treating others the way you would like to be treated.
I try to live by a similar code as those preached by Jesus, and many others already said the same things before he was ever born, but without an Organized Religion to collect my money and give me false hopes.
Don't even get me started on Tithing and the way it is used to make you feel guilty.
nice post Hyfi...and yeah, tithing went out with the old covenant.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Frenchy, you are casting pearls before a swine here. RGA does not like religion, does not believe in God, and takes 300,000 words to say what he can say in 10.
By continuing to engage with RGA, you just give him a full platform to post his ignorance and lack of comprehension regarding the Bible.
Personally, I think we should all eat Barbeque, drink beer, have a group hug, and sing kumbaya in four part harmony. Wait, RGA can't participate in that.......
Yeah....I believe you are correct here....I will stop here....lets get this thread back to politics.....But Hyfi is correct...you sort of slow down and take a look. Rubber necking.
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I'll be the first to admit that I am not as up on the Bible as some but that's like saying I'm not as up on Lord of the Rings novels or Beowulf as some English professors. Since none of the three should be used as "evidence" or "proof" of anything it isn't really in play. Others such as Richard Dawkins grew up Catholic, know the Bible as well as it can be known is smarter than everyone on this board and is much better at ripping down this dumb religion from Bible verse than I.
If you don't know what the term Sky God means read some books. If you believe the earth is 6000 years old and want proof otherwise - read some science books. If you want to know that evolution is in fact a FACT read some science books not religious crazies who don't understand what evolution actually is - we don't come from monkeys - now you do some reading, Start with the God Delusion since it's written for the Layman and is about as spoon-fed as it gets although some find Dawkins a little insulting but if you set that aside and it's not a sin to "just read" a book that questions "God" then that's the place to start.
I am not anti-most people who believe by the way - I don't care that someone is religious - I have Mormon and Pastor friends but where the problem lies is in the belief running their life such that it ends up running mine and other non believers.
I am sure most Christians would not like their life run by Muslim doctrines in any way shape or form. When Bush attacks Iraq because "God told him to" that affects the entire country. Granted he may have just used that wording as propaganda to get Christian right on his side but still - it got some on his side or he would not have bothered to say it. That act affected the entire economy and killed lots of innocent people. And it affected more countries than just the USA and Iraq.
And that's the problem. The average Joe Christian frankly no one cares if you believe in God - believe away. Perfectly harmless upstanding individuals and if faith makes you happy and/or keeps you from committing crimes (as it does for some) then more power to the belief (yes I believe it is good for numerous people).
Even chucking science under the bus for the average person isn't a real problem but again it is a real problem when it affects me. Teaching intelligent design in Science class as a legit "theory" or not teaching evolution is hugely problematic. You want to Intelligent Design have it taught at Sunday School - leave science the hell alone.
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Sir T
I find your form of intellectual dishonesty head scratching. You present intellectual ideas you have some understanding of the notion of test the beliefs of others. When someone says vinyl is better than CD you, more than most, took what they said and explored the technology and the lack of evidence and said technically CD should be superior to vinyl. You even went one further than that and actually auditioned the master tape, CD, and a vinyl pressing.
Then you chuck out your brain out the window researching the utter idiocy and illogic of "faith." Something which one bases their entire life and world view on is slightly more important than whether CD is better that vinyl.
And that's the problem with the word "faith"
There would be no problems if the word faith meant faith - but Christians and other religious followers don't see a difference between "Faith and Fact" To them faith is a fact. There is 100% a GOD who listens to them, there is 100% some sort of hell, there is 100% a heaven that only believers get to go to.
When one believes so strongly and adamantly that this "faith" is a fact then you get the likes of Westboro.
Of course 90% of Christians are not that adamant or extreme but it certainly is the case that most Christians are anti-gay, vote republican, and believe that RGA is going to hell for being Atheist. I am therefore "other" and "worse" than they merely because I don't believe. Now in everyday normal 2012 life this doesn't matter but it doesn't take much for the winds to change and I find myself in a concentration camp. And history is littered with the "other" being segregated for such things. The 90% follow the herd and certainly are not at the forefront of stopping gay bashing, or intelligent design in schools, or stem cell research etc. That passivity is a form of support.
Hold your "Sky God" (one God) to the standards of basic logic, sciences and reason. The wishful thinking "I hope there is a God" doesn't make it so. I have that wishful thinking too by the way - I would love for there to be a God. He sure goes out of His way for rational people NOT to believe.
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RGA....i wont say much and this is my last response to these religious postings. You have mentioned on more than one occasion the age of the universe. The bible says God created it all in 6 days. Modern scientist say according to their testing it is millions and perhaps billions of years old.Who is correct? Man or ancient manuscripts? Let me ask you a question if I may? The bible says God created Adam the first man. How old was he? You see my point? It doesn't seem as if Adam was an infant at creation. With the responsibilities God gave him, it would seem Adam had to be created as an adult....certainly he was not a child with a woman running around without clothing and after the fall told to populate the earth. So my point.....The universe, created in 6 days, could have been created with age....millions or billions of years old at creation...and if that is so, or a possibility, no matter what age it has, or is, surely it did not just magically appear out of some gas that was just floating around in spce by itself and then just decided to explode into what we all see and enjoy today....something out of nothing. No....it had to have all been placed there by an ultimate designer. The gas floating around, the explosion, the universe, the animals and mankind....it all had to come from something, its called cause and effect.....it all points to an intelligent designer......and have you ever wondered where the space that contained the gas and all that came forth out of it, came from? It too had to be put there. I know who put it there....do you? Look at your hands....your feet....think about your heart inside your chest and how it works....how the sun comes up and warms the earth, or the rain and how it washes the earth, or the tree that grows oranges that taste so sweet. You think that all happened by chance? I dont see how it could have....its takes more faith to believe in chance than it does in a n Intelligent Designer. ..and the proof is right there before you in your science, but you refuse to see it. Well I wont. I am not saying you have to believe in the God of the bible, but to say its all just chance is putting your head in the sand my friend.
No need to respond....I am truly done. I will see you when you write some of those wonderful postings about audio...they stimulate my thinking, unlike your postings on faith, science and the bible.
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You know, there have been great points on both sides of this discussion here and it didn't really get that ugly. From the believer's point of view, faith only counts when it comes to religion, anything else that one knows can be proven is tested. Faith in religion cannot be tested and proven in any way.
Just a breif response to a few points in Frenchmon's last post.
It was ALL written in correspondences.
6 days did not mean 6 24 hour cycles as we now call a day. Would I believe Man or Ancient Manuscripts? Knowing that most of what was written back then was 3rd hand babblings and again can never be proven to be true, I would trust what science has discovered about the overall universe right now but still leave open the idea that the energy started somewhere but not how most religions want me to think. God did not just create the earth as a 6 billion year old baby while the rest of the universe expanded from a central location 6 billion years ago.
Adam was not an individual but a representation of the Human race. Since they didn't care much for womens rights, and many fanatics still don't, they mentioned Eve as an afterthought to represent the female of the Human race. It was never about 2 distinct individuals that Focked like rabbits to create the start of the billions now here on earth.
Here is a good question. Why do the majority of Christians label Swedenborg as a nut job because he claimed to speak to angels, but they believe that God opened the heavens and talked ONLY to Moses alone at the top of a mountain and spit out the 10 commandments. What would be the difference if you claim it's all about faith?
Or is it Selective Faith?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyfi
You know, there have been great points on both sides of this discussion here and it didn't really get that ugly. From the believer's point of view, faith only counts when it comes to religion, anything else that one knows can be proven is tested. Faith in religion cannot be tested and proven in any way.
Just a breif response to a few points in Frenchmon's last post.
It was ALL written in correspondences.
6 days did not mean 6 24 hour cycles as we now call a day. Would I believe Man or Ancient Manuscripts? Knowing that most of what was written back then was 3rd hand babblings and again can never be proven to be true, I would trust what science has discovered about the overall universe right now but still leave open the idea that the energy started somewhere but not how most religions want me to think. God did not just create the earth as a 6 billion year old baby while the rest of the universe expanded from a central location 6 billion years ago.
Adam was not an individual but a representation of the Human race. Since they didn't care much for womens rights, and many fanatics still don't, they mentioned Eve as an afterthought to represent the female of the Human race. It was never about 2 distinct individuals that Focked like rabbits to create the start of the billions now here on earth.
Here is a good question. Why do the majority of Christians label Swedenborg as a nut job because he claimed to speak to angels, but they believe that God opened the heavens and talked ONLY to Moses alone at the top of a mountain and spit out the 10 commandments. What would be the difference if you claim it's all about faith?
Or is it Selective Faith?
Should I respond to this Hyfi? Or just leave it as is?
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Required Reading
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
Should I respond to this Hyfi? Or just leave it as is?
You said you were done. We can leave it at that or we can continue to have a nice theological conversation where nobodies feelings get hurt and we all agree to disagree politely.
If you would like to get a different perspective and logical interpretation of the first several books of the bible, that can then be applied elsewhere when similar passages (correspondences) are used, please give some of this a read. It changed my way of reading the bible and my understanding of what they were trying to say within it.
After reading all of this, which I did but fell asleep 2700 times, watch What Dreams May Come and you will see and get all the references they used from some of this text along with his book titled Heaven and Hell.
Arcana Coelestia Index
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
RGA....i wont say much and this is my last response to these religious postings. You have mentioned on more than one occasion the age of the universe. The bible says God created it all in 6 days. Modern scientist say according to their testing it is millions and perhaps billions of years old.Who is correct? Man or ancient manuscripts? Let me ask you a question if I may? The bible says God created Adam the first man. How old was he? You see my point? It doesn't seem as if Adam was an infant at creation. With the responsibilities God gave him, it would seem Adam had to be created as an adult....certainly he was not a child with a woman running around without clothing and after the fall told to populate the earth. So my point.....The universe, created in 6 days, could have been created with age....millions or billions of years old at creation...and if that is so, or a possibility, no matter what age it has, or is, surely it did not just magically appear out of some gas that was just floating around in spce by itself and then just decided to explode into what we all see and enjoy today....something out of nothing. No....it had to have all been placed there by an ultimate designer. The gas floating around, the explosion, the universe, the animals and mankind....it all had to come from something, its called cause and effect.....it all points to an intelligent designer......and have you ever wondered where the space that contained the gas and all that came forth out of it, came from? It too had to be put there. I know who put it there....do you? Look at your hands....your feet....think about your heart inside your chest and how it works....how the sun comes up and warms the earth, or the rain and how it washes the earth, or the tree that grows oranges that taste so sweet. You think that all happened by chance? I dont see how it could have....its takes more faith to believe in chance than it does in a n Intelligent Designer. ..and the proof is right there before you in your science, but you refuse to see it. Well I wont. I am not saying you have to believe in the God of the bible, but to say its all just chance is putting your head in the sand my friend.
No need to respond....I am truly done. I will see you when you write some of those wonderful postings about audio...they stimulate my thinking, unlike your postings on faith, science and the bible.
The wonders of the human body, etc., came about isn't resolved by insisting that God or some other "intelligent designer" created them. And that's because of the old, reductive logic: who created the God or the intelligent designer? One cannot respond the God or the designer always existed, because if she or he always existed, then why not the universe itself and its laws?
There is no issue of higher life forms coming about "by chance". It wasn't by chance: evolution is a process that follows its own logical rules, and though chance plays a part, it's only a part of the process
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I find it interesting that humans as they evolve created new gods as they better understood their world. Humans did not understand thunder so let us have a god of thunder. I am sure Egyptians, Romans and Greeks would have felt as strongly about their gods. In mythology a god would impregnate a mortal woman to create a demi-god. Does that sound familiar. As we continue to learn and discover many are leaving churches.
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Hyfi.....I just cant stop rubber necking! im done....I will check out the link, but im done for real this time....no more rubber necking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
Hyfi.....I just cant stop rubber necking! im done....I will check out the link, but im done for real this time....no more rubber necking
Talk to me off line after reading some of it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
Virtually all other "real" audio forums have limits on what topics can be discussed and, if you've ever noticed, they generally have a healthy post count and new members come and go on a regular basis, not to mention no lack of advertisers. IOW, they run a class act and still manage to thrive and grow.
I remember in "the old days" when AR actually had a presence in the NY Hi-Fi shows. But, that's when this was a real site, not a sham that depends on potty talk and a refuge for a few malcontents who enjoy stroking each others egos.
I guess the management here is desperate to keep what they have and allow this trash-talk in order to not chase away the few people that still frequent here.
Wallow happily, my friends. When you wallow, think AR.
I've been posting on AR since 1998. And this site ell off the map when they shut down free speech - at it's height this forum was a barrage of cable debates and DBT discussions. When they stopped allowing that discussion every poster in the DBT camp with the exception of PatD left. And PatD barely posts here.
This forum has started to regain that as I think they allow DBT discussions somewhat - unlike AA where it has to be put in a special forum.
This is an Off Topic forum and now in the Steel Cage. Audio Asylum has similar forums - Water Cooler, Cable debates, religious and political discussions which are far far more heated than the tame stuff here.
And like they say you can always vote with your feet - you don't like something don't buy it, don't like a forum don't visit it.
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Frenchmon
Every question you just asked me is FULLY answered in Richard Dawkins "God Delusion"
Yes a God day could be a billion years but follow the basic logic.
A Religious person: How could the universe begin from nothing?
B - Scientist: That assumes it came from nothing and there is nothing in evidence to make that assumption. If it did come from nothing the odds of it coming from nothing are very low indeed.
A: So there must have been a creator
B: The odds of a Universe coming from nothing is very low - the odds of a "Creator" powerful enough to create everything who is omnipotent and omniscient coming from nothing is orders of magnitude LESS likely. After all if you say the Universe could not just pop into existence then why could a creator of said universe just pop into existence from nothing?
A: look how beautiful everything is it must have been designed.
B: if a designer were "Perfect" then everything He creates would also be perfect. Perfection can't create imperfection because that would mean God is imperfect. Everything on earth is imperfect. Evolution is a better theory as there is evidence that creatures have improved over time to adapt to their environments and needs. The human eye is not very good - but it's good enough for the purpose of the hhuman animal to survive - it would not however be very good for an Owl which is why an Owl has a completely different kind of eye.
The human eye is an example of BAD Design which means that if there was a God he was an ATROCIOUS engineer. No human if he had absolute power would design such a useless device.
Intelligent Design (2): The Human Eye - YouTube
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