Upgrading Magnepans

[Florian]

If you would have actually taken the time to analyze my setup and read some of my past posts, you would have known that i am not a Krell fan and that my speaker is not powered by Krell solely. Actually, i believe you never looked at my system at all. Further, i do not believe in your "experience", its fine that you like your older Ampzilla, i was not giving you a recommendation to update it, but to say that Krell is not in the same league as Mark Levinson or Audio Research, will set most guys on this forum in a laughing state. Maybe your are confusing Krell Industries with a different Brand?

Anyway, i hope you will find a speaker to your liking. Like i said, i had two pair of 3.6's. And even if i where to like your Ampzilla amp, it would not be able to drive my 1.3ohm tweeter ribbon. If you do not apreciate my comments, then please say so and i will ignore your posts from now on.

Cheers

Florian

PS: 8000$ for a modern reference monoblock from Krell? <-- Got a link to a seller?

[BOXMAN]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers

I am "requoting" what you posted a few days ago..... Perhaps you forgot what you posted... and all that I am saying, is someone running Krell in no way shape or form can logically tell me I need an amp with good resolution and sound... that is funny!

Yes I know Krell very well. I have two dealers here in Indianapolis. the stores are mainly home theatre stuff. they opened a high end store... to have brands like Cary and ARC... and guess what, Krell isnt in that store. Funny how that worked out........enjoy your equipment sir, because you sure paid for it!

[Feanor]

The Ampzilla should work nicely. I confess that I'm not a big Krell fan having heard a couple. Clean, but too sterile for my perception of live. Back in the 70's, D'Agostino used to be a rep for Dayton-Wright electrostatics and Dunlap-Clarke amps. Those amps share a similar house sound to the Krell stuff I've heard. I'd focus on speaker placement and room treatments.

That's how I heard my first Maggies back in '74. Tri-amped T-IIIs with an SP-3a and three D-76as. Got me hooked on planars. I had a pair of MG-IIs myself back in the 70s. You should enjoy moving up to 3.6s. The true ribbon tweeter is really sweet.

Good luck!

rw

E-Stat, my advice to BOXMAN is the same as my advice to blackraven: Magneplanar speakers will exploit a really fine amp, so prioritize a good amp ahead of a speaker upgrade. I have not heard BOX's Amplzilla II; I haven't heard the Outlaw monoblocks blackraven was considering. However I have heard various vintage and mid-fi amps, and they weren't good enough, not even with the MMGs much less the 3.6's.

If BOXMAN is confident the Ampzilla II as the necessary qualities, then he should go for the 3.6's; the Ampzilla ought to have the juice, at least, to drive them. On the other hand, based on his Krell and placebo comments, I'm not sure that is confidence in the Ampzilla II's sound qualities is well placed.

[Florian]

I knew there was a reason why i stopped posting on this site and helping n00bs.

[Feanor]

While I am fairly happy with what I have, I also know from hearing other systems, that this isn't anywhere near where I want to be as far as speakers. I haven't settled on a pair yet and one of the attractive features of the Maggies to me is that when not in use, I can push them against the wall, which is not so easy with my current speakers. What is not attractive is having to power them with amps that take up more floor space than the speakers themselves (not to mention suck electricity right out of the wall and act like furnaces to boot). Your choice of Monarchy amps is a refreshing alternative opinion.

As far as your taste in music, your room, and the price point, we probably have a lot in common. I guess what I was asking is how do they really sound? Do you hear the limitations of the amp during passages with a wide dynamic range (e.g. Hovhaness, Strauss, Khachaturian)? Have you experienced any clipping? Is there compression in the frequency extremes?

As a side issue, did you try any class-D type amps? Of so, what did you or didn't you like about them?

nightflier,

The qualities of Magneplanars are apprciated by a lot of people, me one of them, although the small and mid-sized models aren't for rock music.

With the Monarchy SM-70 Pros, no, I haven't notice any compression and I certaintly haven't experienced clipping. I have run my 1.6s with over 320wpc using an Adcom 555II, and I don't feel I'm loosing anything in the bass for example. But I do attribute this to two factors: (1) I listen a low average levels, i.e. <70dB except for peaks, and (2) the reserve capacity of the of the Monarchys, 60,000uF per monoblock. A third factor might be the SM-70 Pro's, (but not all Monarchy models), provide better micro-dynamics, per Monarchy Audio, when driven by a balanced signal which, in my case, they are.

Yes, I've used a class 'D' amp. Actually a Bel Canto eVo2i 'Tripath' with 200wpc. The Bel was a very nice, extremely transparent amp, but I prefer the SM-70 Pro's with about 85% of recordings. The Monarchys are warmer and more "organic" while giving up very, very little transparency; they are also as or more dynamic and do bass just as well at my listening levels. Still, I would find it interesting to hear a good switching amp in combo with the tube preamp I acquired after giving up the Bel Canto.

[E-Stat]

Your comment is like saying that you have heard one electrostatic, did not like it, so all electrostatics are not to your taste. ^^ There is Krell and then there is KRELL. A small KSA is in no way in the same league as a KAS or a MRA.

Agreed, but my comments were not based upon a "small KSA". Never heard one of those.

rw

[Florian]

E-Stat, my comment was adressed to BOXMAN. I never said that i thought his amp was not good enough, i didnt even mean to upgrade it. In fact, ALL i said was that i would prefer a sublime musical amp, with less maximum power over a big solid state beast. And ever since i made that friendly recommendation i have to listen to stuff like "I wont accept advice from someone who is running middle class equipment like Krell"

Hello Earth? ^^

[E-Stat]

E-Stat, my advice to BOXMAN is the same as my advice to blackraven: Magneplanar speakers will exploit a really fine amp, so prioritize a good amp ahead of a speaker upgrade.

That's fine, but I will readily admit I'm a speaker guy. Have you ever heard a pair of 70s vintage MG-IIas? They are nice, but not in the same league as your 1.6s. Surely, there are better sounding amps than the 'zilla, but I would start building a system with a great speaker first. Just a difference of approach.

rw

[E-Stat]

E-Stat, my comment was adressed to BOXMAN.

I wasn't sure, so I switched my display mode to threaded. Evidently, you read my comments just before responding and thus posted yours as a reply to mine.

Krell is most certainly not "middle class equipment" in my book either.

rw

[Feanor]

That's fine, but I will readily admit I'm a speaker guy. Have you ever heard a pair of 70s vintage MG-IIas? They are nice, but not in the same league as your 1.6s. Surely, there are better sounding amps than the 'zilla, but I would start building a system with a great speaker first. Just a difference of approach.

rw

... I.e. that the MG IIas are "not in the same league as [the] 1.6s", you might well be right.

For my part, I am a speaker primacy guy too. It's just that current Magneplanars are so good that a significant amp upgrade can be justified. I drove $550 MMGs with a $3000 Bel Canto and I don't feel I was wrong to do so even though I eventually upgraded to the MG 1.6QRs. Which gave me the most value, Bel Canto or $1900 MG 1.6? It's a hard call: they did different things.

[audio amateur]

I knew there was a reason why i stopped posting on this site and helping n00bs.

Don't bother I don't...

[E-Stat]

...you might well be right.

I sold and owned MG-IIs. The biggest improvement with Maggies over the decades is the top, IMO. Actually, the big Timpanis were stellar bass performers. Remember HP's QRS-1D system?

It's a hard call: they did different things.

I'll certainly agree. I am amazed how good the updated double Advents in my vintage system can sound with a Manley tube output DAC/line stage and Threshold amp driving them.

rw

[GMichael]

I knew there was a reason why i stopped posting on this site and helping n00bs.

I listen. Someday I may even learn something. Till then, since those Krells of yours are only mid-fi, think you could send them to me? Two would be enough.

Thanks,

[Florian]

I listen. Someday I may even learn something. Till then, since those Krells of yours are only mid-fi, think you could send them to me? Two would be enough.

Thanks,

You dont want my cheap Krell stuff, besides its build into the speakers. You would have to take my cheap speakers also, and thats just a waste of space. I will relieve you of this bother and just keep them

[GMichael]

You dont want my cheap Krell stuff, besides its build into the speakers. You would have to take my cheap speakers also, and thats just a waste of space. I will relieve you of this bother and just keep them

I don't mind. Really. I'll give them a good home.
I have a good sized basement and nothing on one side. Something to take up the space would be great.

[Florian]

I don't mind. Really. I'll give them a good home.
I have a good sized basement and nothing on one side. Something to take up the space would be great.

I'll think about it and let you know ^^

[GMichael]

Why do I get the feeling that it won't take long to come to an answer here?

[Florian]

Why do I get the feeling that it won't take long to come to an answer here?

Dont be so sure, i only got into this hobby to show off. When people start turning away from my midfi, then i have to invest into some real gear! ^^

[GMichael]

Bet they'd make my Mini's sing.

[nightflier]

Feanor, it sounds like I will definitely have to audition a pair of SM-70s. And the price is also very attractive. I am currently auditioning a PS Audio GCC-250 for possible purchase and must say it is a very nice amp, albeit far from being warm. This, for me, puts that amp in the testing system category, and not the sit-down-enjoy-and-listen-system, which at its price-point is steep for me. But if I do decide to keep it, I will definitely revisit the Maggies, and given my budget that would have to be the 1.6qr, although I will definitely keep my eyes open for the 3.6s on A-gon and elsewhere. Thanks for bringing up the Monarchy amps as they were completely erased from my radar because of their power-rating.

Too many choices and too little time....

Regarding the other discussion about Krell, I know I haven't heard much in the $8K and up category of amps, but to my ears, I have yet to hear a better amp - Krell makes a fantastic product if, and this is the big IF, one's tastes lean to the dryer more airy side. That said, it does seem that this is typical of amps in that price-range, which has led me to believe that this is the high-end in sound. If that's not the case, then I have a lot left to discover.

[blackraven]

Hey nightflier, where are the high end audio shops located by you. I come out to visit my mother who lives in Laguna Woods and my brother who lives in Seal Beach about 3 times a year and I will be coming out there in Feb. I always have several hours to kill when I'm out there. I've looked in the Seal beach yellow pages and can't find any hi end shops listed. Thanks!
Larry, frozen in Minnesota. It was -10F here the other night!

[jrhymeammo]

I've also tried planar speakers for a brief period. My system consisted of:

MG 1.6QR thru BAT VK-3i and PSA HCA-2.

I thought that was the most inconsistance system I've ever had. When it sounded bad, I had often went for a pair of headphones. But once in a while, it sounded magnifent and made me want to upgrade my pre and power amp.

HCA-2 sounds smooth and clean with my current pair of box speakers, but sounded stale and dry with maggies 90% of the time... Based on what I've read and heard from others, Class D just may not be the thing for maggies.

JRA

[Mr Peabody]

Calling Krell mid-fi is just inflametory. I've heard the 300i integrated to their 650 monoblocks, I also heard some reference Evolution but I can't remember the model. In each case for the level they were, they are outstanding. I can see how some could say cool or clinical, especially if you are used to tubes but not mid-fi. There aren't many amps that can rival the transcient response of Krell amps.

They are expensive and not well circulated, especially in the U.S. yet, but if you want to hear switching amps sound fabulous check out T+A.

BTW - www.spearitsound.com has a used ARC sp9 mkII for sale used $750.00. I'm not sure what these go for usually, used, but I get the impression the sp9 is a cherry preamp and $750.00 for that kind of performance is cheap.

[BOXMAN]

BTW - www.spearitsound.com has a used ARC sp9 mkII for sale used $750.00. I'm not sure what these go for usually, used, but I get the impression the sp9 is a cherry preamp and $750.00 for that kind of performance is cheap.

Good Preamp!

[bubslewis]

Good Preamp!

But kinda middle level? (Sorry BOXMAN, I couldn't resist)