Upgrading Magnepans

[BOXMAN]

I am currently running Magnepan MGIIa speakers. I personally still love these things!! They are getting a little rough and it is getting time to replace in the near future. I have always wanted a new pair of Magnepans. I have had my eye on the Magnepan 3.6s. Anybody out there running 3.6s? I am looking for some feedback on them. A new pair is quite salty, but my current maggies lasted me quite a long time with great sound so I cant complain. I have tried dynamic speakers and the bottom line is I am a planar guy period. Thanks in advance for your time! I look forward to your input! Jim

[blackraven]

I've got the Q1.6's and wish I had bought the 3.6's when I had the chance. The 3.6's like lots of clean power, 200wpc and higher. You won't be disappointed. I've heard those and the MG20's plenty of times.

[BOXMAN]

Thank you for your input... I am planning on running my Ampzilla II on them. the amp has been fully refurbished and very clean. 200 wpc is the rating. I have a feeling I will love what I hear!!

[blackraven]

Is that at 4ohms? I think the ampzilla is 400wpc at 4ohms if I'm not mistaken. Don't forget, Maggies are 4ohm. I'm running 225wpc of high current power at 4ohms on my 1.6's and I would like to have more. The 3.6's would really do well with 300wpc but should be able to drive them ok with 200watts. There's some one on this forum who has the 3.6's and I think uses a Musicalfidelity integrated with 500wpc.

[Florian]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers

[Feanor]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers

Florian has been there and done it. So have I to a lessor degree; I have just the MG 1.6, but I can assure you that any Magneplanar will exploit a great amp. For many years I used a Phase Linear 400, including with the Magneplanar MMGs. The PL 400 put out close to 400wpc @ 4ohms, like the Ampzilla, but what a revelation it was to go first to a NAD C270, (200wpc but a significant improvement), then to Monarchy SM-70 Pro's, (120wpc and a very big improvement).

I suspect blackraven is right that 300watts is the minimum optimal with the 3.6's, but that 200 would do, however it depends how loud you listen.

In any case my advice to BOXMAN, as it is to blackraven, is up grade your amp before you go to the 3.6's.

[BOXMAN]

Florian has been there and done it. So have I to a lessor degree; I have just the MG 1.6, but I can assure you that any Magneplanar will exploit a great amp. For many years I used a Phase Linear 400, including with the Magneplanar MMGs. The PL 400 put out close to 400wpc @ 4ohms, like the Ampzilla, but what a revelation it was to go first to a NAD C270, (200wpc but a significant improvement), then to Monarchy SM-70 Pro's, (120wpc and a very big improvement).

I suspect blackraven is right that 300watts is the minimum optimal with the 3.6's, but that 200 would do, however it depends how loud you listen.

In any case my advice to BOXMAN, as it is to blackraven, is up grade your amp before you go to the 3.6's.

The 3.6s are 4 ohm I believe... therefore an Ampzilla II would be at 400wpc. I would suspect that would be enough...... and I dont understand why you guys are saying upgrade my amp..........I feel the GAS and Maggies combo is very nice

[Ajani]

The 3.6s are 4 ohm I believe... therefore an Ampzilla II would be at 400wpc. I would suspect that would be enough...... and I dont understand why you guys are saying upgrade my amp..........I feel the GAS and Maggies combo is very nice

LOL... Don't take it personal.... from my very very basic understanding of planars... more watts and larger planars are generally better.... as a result, most planar lovers seem to toss out the 'upgrade your amp' line as a default response (more often than not it maybe correct, but not always)... If you really like the syngery between your amp and the maggies (and it clearly seems to have the watts), then just get bigger maggies...

[Feanor]

The 3.6s are 4 ohm I believe... therefore an Ampzilla II would be at 400wpc. I would suspect that would be enough...... and I dont understand why you guys are saying upgrade my amp..........I feel the GAS and Maggies combo is very nice

... Is that these old amps, in general, sound like sh!t. There is more to amplifiers than wattage and Magneplanars need more than watts.

[BOXMAN]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers

I really appreciate your input from both of you. Florian, I am a little stunned on your words though...... You are running a Krell on top end and you just asked me to upgrade my amp......?? Krell is decent, but I have heard plenty of Krell, there is no advantage over an updated GAS Ampzilla. I look at krell as a decent midline for component set ups.........

Sure there is a little better out there.... but the big price tag can also work as a great placebo to think it is that much better... Thanks again for your input sir.

[Feanor]

I really appreciate your input from both of you. Florian, I am a little stunned on your words though...... You are running a Krell on top end and you just asked me to upgrade my amp......?? Krell is decent, but I have heard plenty of Krell, there is no advantage over an updated GAS Ampzilla. I look at krell as a decent midline for component set ups.........

Sure there is a little better out there.... but the big price tag can also work as a great placebo to think it is that much better... Thanks again for your input sir.

BOX, if you believe all amps sound the same, you need to clean out your ears. As I alluded to above, I had this personal revelation a few years ago, having lived with a ghastly vintage amp for decades.

[BOXMAN]

BOX, if you believe all amps sound the same, you need to clean out your ears. As I alluded to above, I had this personal revelation a few years ago, having lived with a ghastly vintage amp for decades.

I do not think all amps sound the same... I am aware of the differences. what I am saying is an updated Ampzilla II can hold its on versus a Krell...... as I mentioned a Krell product is a decent midline component. If you take an upgraded Ampzilla II and run some planars you would be very surprised...... We all have our preferences as well

If you want top notch... (in my eyes) run an Audio Research tri amped system with tubes on top and a set of tympani's..... now that would be worth upgrading to in my opinion....

[GMichael]

I really appreciate your input from both of you. Florian, I am a little stunned on your words though...... You are running a Krell on top end and you just asked me to upgrade my amp......?? Krell is decent, but I have heard plenty of Krell, there is no advantage over an updated GAS Ampzilla. I look at krell as a decent midline for component set ups.........

Sure there is a little better out there.... but the big price tag can also work as a great placebo to think it is that much better... Thanks again for your input sir.

This should go over like a fart in church.

[audio amateur]

This should go over like a fart in church.

Couldn't have put it better

[BOXMAN]

I had two pair of 3.6's, great value! Plenty of power is needed, but before choosin some bruiser amd or some class D, i would look for an amp with good resolution and sound. :-) They require a good size room with good acoustics also.
Cheers

I am "requoting" what you posted a few days ago..... Perhaps you forgot what you posted... and all that I am saying, is someone running Krell in no way shape or form can logically tell me I need an amp with good resolution and sound... that is funny!

Yes I know Krell very well. I have two dealers here in Indianapolis. the stores are mainly home theatre stuff. they opened a high end store... to have brands like Cary and ARC... and guess what, Krell isnt in that store. Funny how that worked out........enjoy your equipment sir, because you sure paid for it!

[audio amateur]

Krell make incredible amps as of what I've heard and read about them

[nightflier]

Feanor,

I've dipped my toe in the planar pool with the MMGs and decided the water was too cold (& didn't really see what all the hoopla was about), so I am still "boxed-into" a box speaker, as the planar folks like to say. That said, I'm still very interested in the topic.

What I'm wondering is how the Monarchy SM-70 performs with those Maggies. Logic would suggest that an 80/120w amp isn't going to have the grunt to push those speakers to their full potential. I would have opted for the SE-100s, at least. Now don't get me wrong, I haven't heard the Monarchy amps, and I've read nothing but good reviews about them, so I may be way off here, but I'm just wondering how this is working - there seems a to be a logical disconnect from what everyone else is saying about how much power these speakers require.

Boxman, I'm a big fan of PS Audio amps and while they do have a sound that isn't to everyone's liking, they certainly aren't lacking in the power-reserve department. PS Audio amps sell used for less than half the new price (esp. the newer GCC amps) and the older generation amps sell for much less. Hence my belief that they are an excellent value. I have a pair of Classic 250 monoblocks that I picked up for nearly nothing and they are amazing amps for the money - you can find them every once in a while on Audiogon and eBay for $500/pair or thereabouts. The HCA-2 is a 150/225w amp that despite it's class-D roots actually sound quite warm and seems to be popular amp to pair with Maggies. Of course, if you can find a GCA/C-250 or 500 amp used, that would be my suggestion, but the HCA-2 is a very nice amp for $600 used, if the others are too "salty."

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. If the Monarchy Audios are as good as Feanor says, then they definitely deserve an audition.

[Feanor]

Feanor,

I've dipped my toe in the planar pool with the MMGs and decided the water was too cold (& didn't really see what all the hoopla was about), so I am still "boxed-into" a box speaker, as the planar folks like to say. That said, I'm still very interested in the topic.

What I'm wondering is how the Monarchy SM-70 performs with those Maggies. Logic would suggest that an 80/120w amp isn't going to have the grunt to push those speakers to their full potential. I would have opted for the SE-100s, at least. Now don't get me wrong, I haven't heard the Monarchy amps, and I've read nothing but good reviews about them, so I may be way off here, but I'm just wondering how this is working - there seems a to be a logical disconnect from what everyone else is saying about how much power these speakers require.
...

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. If the Monarchy Audios are as good as Feanor says, then they definitely deserve an audition.

'Flier,

Perhaps it's of academic interest to you if you're not really interested in Magneplanars ... but a lot people would agree that 200wpc is the "minimum" for the 1.6's, or 300wpc for the 3.6's. The 120wpc Monarchy SM-70 Pro's are working great for me with the 1.6's, but let me explain.

My listening room is a small medium, 12' x 20', although it has a lot of furniture and drapes. The bigger factor is that I don't listen to loud music. I listen to classical mostly, and an average level of <70dB. Of course peaks are much higher, but the SM-70's 60,000uF per side helps with that, no doubt.

I bought the SM-70 Pro's instead of the SE-100's because (1) I saw deal for the former, (2) some pundits said that the former sounded slightly better, especially if run as fully-balance monoblock, and (3) I had a preamp with fully balance operation.

[nightflier]

'Flier, Perhaps it's of academic interest to you if you're not really interested in Magneplanars ... but a lot people would agree that 200wpc is the "minimum" for the 1.6's, or 300wpc for the 3.6's. The 120wpc Monarchy SM-70 Pro's are working great for me with the 1.6's, but let me explain.

While I am fairly happy with what I have, I also know from hearing other systems, that this isn't anywhere near where I want to be as far as speakers. I haven't settled on a pair yet and one of the attractive features of the Maggies to me is that when not in use, I can push them against the wall, which is not so easy with my current speakers. What is not attractive is having to power them with amps that take up more floor space than the speakers themselves (not to mention suck electricity right out of the wall and act like furnaces to boot). Your choice of Monarchy amps is a refreshing alternative opinion.

As far as your taste in music, your room, and the price point, we probably have a lot in common. I guess what I was asking is how do they really sound? Do you hear the limitations of the amp during passages with a wide dynamic range (e.g. Hovhaness, Strauss, Khachaturian)? Have you experienced any clipping? Is there compression in the frequency extremes?

As a side issue, did you try any class-D type amps? Of so, what did you or didn't you like about them?

[Feanor]

While I am fairly happy with what I have, I also know from hearing other systems, that this isn't anywhere near where I want to be as far as speakers. I haven't settled on a pair yet and one of the attractive features of the Maggies to me is that when not in use, I can push them against the wall, which is not so easy with my current speakers. What is not attractive is having to power them with amps that take up more floor space than the speakers themselves (not to mention suck electricity right out of the wall and act like furnaces to boot). Your choice of Monarchy amps is a refreshing alternative opinion.

As far as your taste in music, your room, and the price point, we probably have a lot in common. I guess what I was asking is how do they really sound? Do you hear the limitations of the amp during passages with a wide dynamic range (e.g. Hovhaness, Strauss, Khachaturian)? Have you experienced any clipping? Is there compression in the frequency extremes?

As a side issue, did you try any class-D type amps? Of so, what did you or didn't you like about them?

nightflier,

The qualities of Magneplanars are apprciated by a lot of people, me one of them, although the small and mid-sized models aren't for rock music.

With the Monarchy SM-70 Pros, no, I haven't notice any compression and I certaintly haven't experienced clipping. I have run my 1.6s with over 320wpc using an Adcom 555II, and I don't feel I'm loosing anything in the bass for example. But I do attribute this to two factors: (1) I listen a low average levels, i.e. <70dB except for peaks, and (2) the reserve capacity of the of the Monarchys, 60,000uF per monoblock. A third factor might be the SM-70 Pro's, (but not all Monarchy models), provide better micro-dynamics, per Monarchy Audio, when driven by a balanced signal which, in my case, they are.

Yes, I've used a class 'D' amp. Actually a Bel Canto eVo2i 'Tripath' with 200wpc. The Bel was a very nice, extremely transparent amp, but I prefer the SM-70 Pro's with about 85% of recordings. The Monarchys are warmer and more "organic" while giving up very, very little transparency; they are also as or more dynamic and do bass just as well at my listening levels. Still, I would find it interesting to hear a good switching amp in combo with the tube preamp I acquired after giving up the Bel Canto.

[O'Shag]

Boxman, your estimation of an ARC tri-amp setup is spot on. I've not heard this setup on the Maggies (although I heard several maggie systems which sounded very good), but I have heard an ARC tri-amp setup on another speaker system (ARC d'Triamphe so to speak). The sound quality was breathtaking .I'll be setting up a fully tri-amped system in due course, using Mark Levinson No 27 (2 bridged as monoblocks) for the bass, ARC Classic 150 monoblocks for the mid-bass, and ARC Classic 120 for the midrange and tweeters. I've just tried tri-wiring, and was astonished by the results!!!

[BOXMAN]

Boxman, your estimation of an ARC tri-amp setup is spot on. I've not heard this setup on the Maggies (although I heard several maggie systems which sounded very good), but I have heard an ARC tri-amp setup on another speaker system (ARC d'Triamphe so to speak). The sound quality was breathtaking .I'll be setting up a fully tri-amped system in due course, using Mark Levinson No 27 (2 bridged as monoblocks) for the bass, ARC Classic 150 monoblocks for the mid-bass, and ARC Classic 120 for the midrange and tweeters. I've just tried tri-wiring, and was astonished by the results!!!

Glad you also think so!..... I will one day build an ARC system with maggies.... but I am really happy with GAS equipment. Maybe they match real good with maggies.... I dont know, but it works out nicely. I will admit I put a set of dynamics on the Ampzilla, and I quickly said.... man I got to hook my maggies back up!! and by the way, I like your amp set up you have!! Classic 120 should go nice on the top end!! If you ask me, the older equipment is the real deal!

[nightflier]

Feanor, it sounds like I will definitely have to audition a pair of SM-70s. And the price is also very attractive. I am currently auditioning a PS Audio GCC-250 for possible purchase and must say it is a very nice amp, albeit far from being warm. This, for me, puts that amp in the testing system category, and not the sit-down-enjoy-and-listen-system, which at its price-point is steep for me. But if I do decide to keep it, I will definitely revisit the Maggies, and given my budget that would have to be the 1.6qr, although I will definitely keep my eyes open for the 3.6s on A-gon and elsewhere. Thanks for bringing up the Monarchy amps as they were completely erased from my radar because of their power-rating.

Too many choices and too little time....

Regarding the other discussion about Krell, I know I haven't heard much in the $8K and up category of amps, but to my ears, I have yet to hear a better amp - Krell makes a fantastic product if, and this is the big IF, one's tastes lean to the dryer more airy side. That said, it does seem that this is typical of amps in that price-range, which has led me to believe that this is the high-end in sound. If that's not the case, then I have a lot left to discover.

[blackraven]

Hey nightflier, where are the high end audio shops located by you. I come out to visit my mother who lives in Laguna Woods and my brother who lives in Seal Beach about 3 times a year and I will be coming out there in Feb. I always have several hours to kill when I'm out there. I've looked in the Seal beach yellow pages and can't find any hi end shops listed. Thanks!
Larry, frozen in Minnesota. It was -10F here the other night!

[nightflier]

Hey nightflier, where are the high end audio shops located by you. I come out to visit my mother who lives in Laguna Woods and my brother who lives in Seal Beach about 3 times a year and I will be coming out there in Feb. I always have several hours to kill when I'm out there. I've looked in the Seal beach yellow pages and can't find any hi end shops listed. Thanks!
Larry, frozen in Minnesota. It was -10F here the other night!

There used to be more, but now most shops have converted to home-installation and HT - I hear they do excellent drywall work, LOL. Genesis Audio & Video is a good example of this trend, that is, if they actually let you in the door (by apt. only). The fact is that I actually have to go pretty far out to hear good stuff. There's a few boutique shops up in LA that sell your B&O ostentatious stuff, but I try to steer clear of those types of shops. Upscale Audio is not too far, out in Upland, and I go whenever I visit my brother who lives out there. But most of what we've auditioned has been mail-order. One of my friends is an importer from the far east so he brings over stuff with unknown names that sounds pretty good to my ears at least, and I take a trip across the pond every once in while to pick up some goodies, although this last time I didn't get around to that.

Of more interest to me are the local manufacturers. There are a number of them here that might be of interest. Von Schweikert has til now given me the cold shoulder so I can't recommend them (I guess if you're not in the market for $25K speakers...). There's also Oppo, Hsu, Canary Audio, Olevia, not too far out. And in the Santa Barbara area, where I also visit quite often, there's Spectron, Theta Digital, and Channel Islands up in Port Hueneme. I mention them because I've visited each recently (I'll be picking up my Digital One amp in Chatsworth shortly), but there's a ton of others in the greater LA area that I can't think of off the top of my head.