Side-grading from B&W N805, need advice!

[Ajani]

What's the point in "betting"? A one-man manufacturer/direct merchant has no middle man and super low overhead. I would "bet" he has a very nice profit margin. There is no problem, though. I already tried to drop it in my previous reply.

That is exactly the point that most persons are ignoring... It's not necessarily that Mr Fritz makes less profit than other manufacturers, but that he sells direct online... Direct Sales cut out the cost of retailers (and their profit margins) from the equation....

[audio amateur]

What's the point in "betting"? A one-man manufacturer/direct merchant has no middle man and super low overhead. I would "bet" he has a very nice profit margin.

I will also bet that he sells far less, hence the fact that if he does make a decent profit (no harm in that), he probably isn't filthy rich either.

There is no problem, though. I already tried to drop it in my previous reply.

Indeed, i read that after i wrote my reply.

[audio amateur]

Indeed, some ScanSpeak are very expensive, e.g. THIS Beryllium-dome D3004/6640-00 "Illuminator" series tweeter.

Jeez, what do they line those with, gold?

[Feanor]

Jeez, what do they line those with, gold?

Beryllium!! Which is evidently difficult and potentially toxic to work with.

[koven]

I'm letting it go at that, even if the mods leave it in. Enjoy your speakers. They seem great. No hard feelings on my part. It would all seem less significant if said over a beer rather than in writing.

Agreed.

No hard feelings at all..

[koven]

On a positive note, Fritz will be bringing me a floorstander with the new AirCirc Illuminator tweeter in ~two weeks.

Until then, I'll be enjoying the Carbon 7's and maybe look into some of the less expensive aftermarket power cords... I think I'll give Zu a shot first. Zu Audio has auctions on ebay for their cables and they usually end at about 20% of the actual MSRP cost, lol. 60-day return on top of that too.

[audio amateur]

On a positive note, Fritz will be bringing me a floorstander with the new AirCirc Illuminator tweeter in ~two weeks.

Wow, that's very cool! So is he just swapping tweeters or does he also have to modify the crossover to do so? What about the Illuminator woofer?

[koven]

Wow, that's very cool! So is he just swapping tweeters or does he also have to modify the crossover to do so? What about the Illuminator woofer?

It was pretty vague and just came up at the end of our conversation, I'll have to ask him for the details next time we speak.

I'm assuming he'll be modifying/tuning the crossover since it's a different driver... I'll also ask about the woofer.

[Feanor]

Wow, that's very cool! So is he just swapping tweeters or does he also have to modify the crossover to do so? What about the Illuminator woofer?

It's the exception that one driver is a simple swap for another, (though it's a little more likely in the case of tweeters than woofers). In general, optimum performance means reworking the crossover network.

[jrhymeammo]

see below, regarding your question, these are just two quotes from soundstage.com talking about the new proac d series

Thanks, I failed to see that post.

maybe a moderator can "edit out" all this negative talk

I don't know about everyone else, but I feel like this is one of the best threads we've had in years. I think it's refreshing and informative.
Nothing is out of control here....yet.

JRA

[koven]

Thanks, I failed to see that post.

I don't know about everyone else, but I feel like this is one of the best threads we've had in years. I think it's refreshing and informative.
Nothing is out of control here....yet.

JRA

Thanks JRA, I'm glad to hear that and I hope others feel the same.

[jrhymeammo]

Yes I am. The 2.5 Zaph audio design is a sealed chamber design that I for one am very interested in hearing for myself. The price is good for the amount of quality there and from what I have read from owners of these speakers is that they are comparable to some speakers close to the 5 figure mark for around 2000 bucks. Thats saying something and while I was not there to hear a comparison like this for myself and it is a bold claim but hell if these speakers can keep up with speakers in the 5 to 6 thousand dollar range then buying them and putting them together yourself would be well worth it and they could be something I would keep and listen to for years. One of them speakers to keep for a long time and enjoy knowing you got way more for the money than most.

I have no idea how they would sound in provided combination, but I predict they are exceptional speakers. I imagine with a little tweak to the crossovers, they will compete with speakers costing 3-4x the price.

Here is a list of small speaker companies I've been curious about outside of Tyler Acoustics and Fritz.

http://www.taylorspeakers.com/index.html
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/
http://www.selahaudio.com/
http://www.salksound.com/
http://www.coincidentspeaker.com/speakers.htm
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com.

JRA

[koven]

I've heard a lot of great things about Salk SongTowers.. wish I could hear them some day.

[atomicAdam]

So how many of those $1k babies you buying Adam?

None - They are on loan. You think I got that kind of cash? I wish.

[vlastoc]

hi Koven, Frenchmon

I honestly have to say, I didn't audition the mention Spendors A6 in real, I only have read the very detail review at our local hifi forum (hifi-voice.com). I know that its predecessor S6 was also super...

Anyway , as you Koven write, you can't get it in your area.

If I should compare Cantons and the others...
I never cared much about the Dynaudios, ooh, know their quality, but I prefer more dynamic, live performance ...and of course, they are quite expensive, on the other hand, I think Dynaudios are much closer to so called high end..

I never heard Proac.

Cantons are vey live performance, suited to rock, metal, drums, jazz..I don't listen classical, orchestral music, so can't say. Some lower series and older series had a bit edgy highs, perhaps little boomy bass.
But without any shame, I could recommend Canton Vento 880 or 890DC. (Older Vento 809 is review here http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/605canton )

Reference series is more expensive.

My Ventos 807 are very musical, witch great timbre, clear mids and smooth highs.

[Mr Peabody]

Vlastoc, which Dyn's did you hear and what was driving them. I know they don't appeal to everyone but their dynamics, "live like performance", is one of the strenghs I enjoyed about them. Most models do require some good amplification to get that out of them though.

[frenchmon]

hi Koven, Frenchmon

I honestly have to say, I didn't audition the mention Spendors A6 in real, I only have read the very detail review at our local hifi forum (hifi-voice.com). I know that its predecessor S6 was also super...

Anyway , as you Koven write, you can't get it in your area.

If I should compare Cantons and the others...
I never cared much about the Dynaudios, ooh, know their quality, but I prefer more dynamic, live performance ...and of course, they are quite expensive, on the other hand, I think Dynaudios are much closer to so called high end..

I never heard Proac.

Cantons are vey live performance, suited to rock, metal, drums, jazz..I don't listen classical, orchestral music, so can't say. Some lower series and older series had a bit edgy highs, perhaps little boomy bass.
But without any shame, I could recommend Canton Vento 880 or 890DC. (Older Vento 809 is review here http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/605canton )

Reference series is more expensive.

My Ventos 807 are very musical, witch great timbre, clear mids and smooth highs.

Hi Vlastoc. I have a pair of Cantons 403's which I enjoy very much. And I have heard the Dynaudio's 140's, 110's Contours t2.5, and some of the higher end speakers from Dynaudio. Both speakers brands are great but are not that far apart in what they can do. While I cant say I've heard any other line other than the GLE line form Canton. Both CANTON and DYNAUDIO have a very good bottom and comparing the 140's and 403's the edge going to the 140. The 140's are a more nuetral speaker than the 403's but the 140's have a more subtle tweeter compared to the 403's which do have a more lively tweeter. I think the 403's are a very clear and transparent speaker. The 140's where a more forward speaker, but thats not to say the 403's are laid back and polite, becasue they are not at all, but the 140's seem more forward to me. The Cantons present a very good sound stage. They even recommend no toe in with the 403's. The craftsmanship that I see on the Vento and Reference series are just out standing...a very good looking speaker it is. Its just to bad that they are not a popular speaker here in the states.

I am in the market for new speakers and a little cash strapped at the moment with Christmas and all. Once I get a my reserves flowing I will see if I can get some Ventos with a thirty day trial in my home seeing we have no dealers here.

frenchmon

[FSonicSmith]

Am I the first to mention after all the posts in this thread that your room is too small. I mean I realize that you have to make do with what you have but your B&W 805s never stood a chance in that room. Further, in such a small room you have far too many hard reflective serfaces of which that flat panel is certainly one. Look at extensive room treatments and consider towing your speakers outward rather than toed-in or straight firing. Stay away from silver ICs or speaker cable. Room treatment and system matching is what you need in a very big way.
I hope this does not come across as unduly harsh. I would also audition each candidate without any other speakers in the room where they can affect your dispersion. Do you intend to have all those speakers in your room when you settle upon the "winner"? Do you not realize that in such a small room the other speakers present more hard, reflective surfaces? Read a primer on acoustic principles in rooms and start from the big picture in rather than from the small picture (the speaker) outward.

[audio amateur]

consider towing your speakers outward rather than toed-in or straight firing.

Are you sure? I have never ever seen speakers oriented outwards.

[koven]

Am I the first to mention after all the posts in this thread that your room is too small. I mean I realize that you have to make do with what you have but your B&W 805s never stood a chance in that room. Further, in such a small room you have far too many hard reflective serfaces of which that flat panel is certainly one. Look at extensive room treatments and consider towing your speakers outward rather than toed-in or straight firing. Stay away from silver ICs or speaker cable. Room treatment and system matching is what you need in a very big way.
I hope this does not come across as unduly harsh. I would also audition each candidate without any other speakers in the room where they can affect your dispersion. Do you intend to have all those speakers in your room when you settle upon the "winner"? Do you not realize that in such a small room the other speakers present more hard, reflective surfaces? Read a primer on acoustic principles in rooms and start from the big picture in rather than from the small picture (the speaker) outward.

I appreciate the comment and don't worry, I did not take it as harsh although you make some assumptions and your tone is a bit condescending. I always welcome criticism as it helps me learn.

1. The room is small - I know, but it's my only option so I need to make the best out of it. The TV may not be ideal, but that's there to stay. I've already realized I have many hard surfaces in my room, which is why I put up some absorbers - it's the bare minimum, but it's a start. My next step will be corner/bass traps and maybe filling up the front walls w/ diffusers.

2. I only placed the speakers there to take a picture. When I actually listen, it's one speaker at a time, or sometimes two - for A/B purposes. The rest get moved into the room behind me.

3. My interconnects and speaker cables are all copper.

4. I've already picked a winner, it's the Fritz Carbon 7's.

[koven]

fritz brought over the carbon 7's w/ illuminator tweeter this weekend... havent spent much time with them so far, but i cant say it blew me away compared to the regular carbon 7's

to be honest, i dont think the illuminator tweeter blends w/ the 18w8545 as well as the 9500 tweeter ... dont get me wrong though, it is an AMAZING tweeter by itself, but it also seems to stand out/out-do the woofer

for those wondering, it is the D3004/6620-01



anyway.. more on this later, and some pics

[jrhymeammo]

I was minutes away from purchasing a pair of these.
It took me tremendus amount of will power to keep myself from punching in the 16 digit code...

http://www.robertsacoustics.com/Robe...acoustics.html

perhaps you might want to give them a try. They should still have pairs of Demo units.

[audio amateur]

I was minutes away from purchasing a pair of these.
It took me tremendus amount of will power to keep myself from punching in the 16 digit code...

http://www.robertsacoustics.com/Robe...acoustics.html

perhaps you might want to give them a try. They should still have pairs of Demo units.

So you tend to buy speakers after reading an attractive description of them?

[frenchmon]

So you tend to buy speakers after reading an attractive description of them?

Others have done it, and are quite satisfied.


frenchmon

[jrhymeammo]

So you tend to buy speakers after reading an attractive description of them?

I buy lots of gear based on curiousity. Auditioning gear is not a bad idea and I can see why it benefits people, but I find it to be fairly irrelevant and time and resources not well spent.
I find speakers and carftridges fairly easy to determine whether I would like them or not, but other components such as CD Players, Preamp, and Amps are mostly useless to audition.

I was going to purchase these speakers based on the components used.
Also, I wasn't about to drive or fly 1500 miles just hear how they sound....
Of course this is my opinion and majority of people here would strongly disagree.