Poor customer service from Paradigm Electronics

[corwin99]

I don't believe they should have defects is my point though - and if so then they should tell you that up front..."these are $1500.00 because they are a year old and have some blemishes" So I doubt they are aware of it.

Hmm.. i will definately call them on Saturday and try to straighten this out since i am getting nowhere via email. Thanks for your input on this.

[HAVIC]

The issue here is Customer loyalty and if Paradigm had given the Brianphoto what he wanted then he would consider them for his next set of speakers. He may not of even looked at another brand because of the customer service they gave him. However this is not the case and because of his post here I myself am very glad that I did not choose Paradigm for my speakers and went with another and I'm sure others have been turned away as well.

Granted there are many people in this world who take advantage of companies but companies also take advantage of their customers as well.

I am a big fan of a companies who have great customer service, because everyone has problems from Ferrari down to small company x. I don't care who you are S*** happens, but it is the companies that are willing to resolve these matters that stand out from the rest.

Quick example, I bought a $70 USD Logitech Wireless Xbox remote control that went bad on me, I called them up and the said ok I will send you a wired controller until our new model comes out. When it comes out we will send you the new wireless and keep the wired for the inconvience.

I did not have to say a word because they wanted to keep me as a customer. For all they knew I dropped the remote down a flight of stairs and that is why it doesn't work (that is not what happened though), and I always have and will remain a Logitech customer.

Now with a much smaller company like Paradigm they need all the customers they can get in the limited hi-fi speaker arena becuase most people are buying the cheapo speakers at Circuit city, best buy etc...

On the other hand I bought a VW jetta in 2000 and have had over $15,000 worth of repairs and had to fight volkswagen through the whole experience. I even had to video tape several problems till they "believed" me. They treated me like someone who did not know what I was talking about and I will never buy a VW/AUDI again.

So it's not the problems you encounter it is how it is handled.

Greg

[RGA]

it's funny you mention volkswagon because everyone our family knows or has known over the years reports the IDENTICAL thing. Their attitude to my friends parents when their engine head cracked after 4 months was that "well our cars are the best and therefore it must have been your fault" and they are roayal pains in the ass. Considering how often they break down I always laugh when I hear their tag line "German engineering" Yeah like thanks for the warning. Looking through the Lemon-Aid it would seem most new Mercedes and B&W are poorly engineered and poorly built -- Hmm can you say Lexus?

Customer service is dissapearing in most industries because big companies really don;t care about you the little guy - I say most because some like you Logitech know that in the computer field you'll be a repeat customer so if you're happy today then the next 30 items for the computer you buy you will at least seriously consider or BUY a logitech.

Speaker companies in the mid-fi realm chances are are not going to sell you another speaker -- 1 because the buyer may keep the speakers 20 years and 2 if they go upscale they probably leave your brand anyway - so why really go the extra mile on service?

I remember talking to the owner of a GM car dealer who said thatthe best cars they sold in terms of not falling apart was the Chevy SPRINT and by a very wide margin. (confirmed by lemon-aid as well). He said that the average person buys about 10 cars in his her lifetime -- chances are the first car they buy will be a cheap car like a Sprint -- so they want to HOOK you on the brand with a relaile economical car that goes pretty good around the city. GM basically bought them all From Suzuki (who made the Swift).

Anyway, he said the WORST cars by a mile in the line-up was the Cadilac. they figure this is your LAST car and typically sell to retirees. It's loaded with surface niceties but is easily the worst put together highest profit margin car in their line-ups...they got your money and they know they are not getting any more. He told me that customer satisfaction across British Columbia for that vehicle was under 20% (this was 4 years ago so things may have changed). Yet the sprint was over 80% - still pathetic compared to Honda's 98% across the board.

A fellow not long ago here had tons of trouble with PSB and after badgering and internet postings they resolved it -- but really should it take all that? I worked at McDonalds and we'd have people come in saying that we forgot to put their fries in the bag. Some managers would get into an argument with the custmer asking for a receipt (which in a rush we probably forgot to give them). The customer would say he didn't get a receipt - so ten minutes of arguing goes by and the manager grudgingly give the guy his fries... or does not and the guy never goes back to McDonalds.

Me, I say sorry sir what size of fries did you order "a Small?" please take a large Fries and tasty a apple pie for your trouble. Sure maybe Mcdonalds got hosed out of this .25 cent cost to us for both items but on the other hand maybe we truly were in the wrong and we made this guy happy enough to not complain to anyone about his bad exoperience or better yet more than happy to say gee that McDonalds was pretty damn good to me.

I went to Tim Hortons - a donut restaurant that is HUGE in Canada. I asked for a Chile in a Bread bowl -- I ordered a combo $6.00 after tax. Anyway, they had no bread bowls for the Chile ready -- they said it would be about 7 minutes. I kinda frowned but said tht;s fine.. The manager comes over gives me all my money back hands me the cash and said the meal's on us. I am now writing this on this forum and maybe people want to go to Tim Hortons instead of KFC next time.

The cost of the stupid subwoofer to Paradigm or the speakers to PSB are a pittance -- deal with the service -- because a good experience people might talk about 1 in 10 -- but a bad experience will be talked about every time!!

[HAVIC]

Speaker companies in the mid-fi realm chances are are not going to sell you another speaker -- 1 because the buyer may keep the speakers 20 years and 2 if they go upscale they probably leave your brand anyway - so why really go the extra mile on service?

RGA will this may be true word of mouth referrals and the internet can have a great impact on your business. The amount of information and misinformation on the web can cost a company millions.

remember the febreeze disaster, it was either an email or websites that said using febreeze will kill your pets. Febreeze spent millions of dollars on an ad campaign to show you that it is safe for your pets.

The internet is a very powerful medium and ALL companies need to realize this.

A fellow not long ago here had tons of trouble with PSB and after badgering and internet postings they resolved it -- but really should it take all that?

Wow not want I want to hear because PSB is the brand I went with, but because I was able to get brand new unblemished speakers a wholesale which was 40% below MSRP so I know that the cost for replacing Brianphoto's sub would not have cost Paradigm a thing. I;m sure even at the discount I got for the PSB's, they still made money.

maybe a customer service thread/forum could be started that tracks the way companies handle customer service to help people make decisions on the products that they are looking at. Just a thought

Greg

[RGA]

Well I would not personally be put off by either paradigm or the PSB incident because even poor customer service can happen to comapnies noted as being good in this area -- maybe they have a temp employee in when the regular is on vacation and something gets screwed up -- bottom line is eventually PSB gave the guy a model up the line -- his cabinets came apart or something and like Paradigm had no replacement. basically divide a speaker by 10 that's about what it costs the manufacturer to build -- smaller makers are often lower in this regard not higher like some believe. My B&W 302 at $300.00 Cad I'd be surprised if it cost B&W more than $30.00 in parts - ditto for that speaker's competitors...and IMO it's worse in the higher models. You consider that the 302 costs roughly the same to ship to Canada that their N805 costs. The costs of physical materials and drivers even at a multiple of 10 which is unlikely would cost them $300.00 and the sepaker goes for $3k. I'm not surprised so many are turning to DIY. At least then with DIY you can buy real woods. Not that I think there is necessarily anything wrong with the speakers pricing BTW -- they are supplying the labour and "know-how" and the designing...If I had to buy all the equipment to build the DM 302 it would probably cost me more money buying the equipment -- and then without the design I may end up bulding a weaker sounding speaker -- but if these companies are not making at LEAST 50% mark-up over costs then why not sell clothes. My dealer has to have 25% to keep his doors open to cover overhead and employees and still make a buck. Bose is attractive to many because they're in the 70% range.

[Pat D]

RGA will this may be true word of mouth referrals and the internet can have a great impact on your business. The amount of information and misinformation on the web can cost a company millions.

remember the febreeze disaster, it was either an email or websites that said using febreeze will kill your pets. Febreeze spent millions of dollars on an ad campaign to show you that it is safe for your pets.

The internet is a very powerful medium and ALL companies need to realize this.



Wow not want I want to hear because PSB is the brand I went with, but because I was able to get brand new unblemished speakers a wholesale which was 40% below MSRP so I know that the cost for replacing Brianphoto's sub would not have cost Paradigm a thing. I;m sure even at the discount I got for the PSB's, they still made money.

maybe a customer service thread/forum could be started that tracks the way companies handle customer service to help people make decisions on the products that they are looking at. Just a thought

Greg

Now, now! Here we have a fellow who said he just got a subwoofer and it turns out he got it a couple of years ago and there was quite a hiatus before he notified Paradigm of the problem with the replacement. No wonder Paradigm seems rather sceptical. I wondered about his story from the beginning as it was the first version of the Paradigm Servo-15 and I couldn't figure out how he had "just" acquired it. I am still wondering if there is more he left out--in any case, he has a fully operational Servo-15, v. 1 with a minor cosmetic defect which is under the grille, for God's sake. I don't see a horror story here and so far my sympathies lie with Paradigm. From everything I've heard, Paradigm's service is very good.

As I recall, the PSB speaker had some of the veener come unglued. It was eventually replaced with a Stratus model, a line above what the customer had had. Just what the breakdown in communication was I was not sure at the time and it was pretty bad, but when Paul Barton heard about it, he sent him some Stratus Silvers.

I went ahead and got PSB Stratus Minis irrespective of the story because it really was the only story of dissatisfaction with PSB's service I had ever heard--and PSB resolved it well. After all, I had been listening to some very fine speakers by B & W, Dali, Sonus Faber, and others up to four times the price and the Stratus Minis seemed as good as they were and also had an overall balance giving a somewhat more distant perspective which I prefer for most recordings.

[corwin99]

RGA, I also have to disagree with some of your car analogy there... take for example Mercedes, who have slipped in recent years, I agree, but they have one of the best (if not the best, but it is slipping) brand loyalty in the industry. Actually, their S-Class if I recall correctly, has better Brand Loyalty than any other line. I know many many mercedes owners that just buy one Benz after another, one of these people are my dear folks, who have owned 4 consecutive Benzes, and have felt that their most recent acquisition is not as nice as it should have been... At any rate, Cars aren't necessarily always upgraded, there are lateral upgrades as well. A person may move from a S-Class Sedan to an M-Class SUV because they find the G-Class ugly, but still want a Mercedes.

The AN/K Spe I recently picked up wouldn't really be considered an upgrade from the Gershman X-1/SW-1... but of course my purchase isn't the norm, since I do have more speakers than most people.

That Tim Horton's experience is quite cool actually. That leads me to another thing.. like you said about the bad day/timing situation, that could have just as easily gone the other way had you been at a difference Timmy's Franchise. My girlfriend used to work at a Timmy's that would NEVER do that. The Owner was far too cheap. Just like you could just have dealt with a Customer Service rep that was in a bad mood... or even perhaps with companies like Lenbrook who are distributors for many companies. They don't reflect the actual companies commitment, just perhaps poor management of personnel or something.

[dave123456@mail.com]

The 99 Civic was my brothers, he bought it when it had 40,000 miles on it, and It was mine at about 90,000 miles. Not a damn thing wrong with it. The only thing I can remember them doing to it was changing the battery. I know 90k isnt awhole lot, but some companies can barelly do that. My moms S- 10 from the 80's, which was taken care of my mom drives like a farmer, crapped out at 100k at was struggling for many miles before that. My friends dads explorers transmission ( 00 Explorer) stopped working at around 90k as well. Mustangs, samething with these theyre junk. We now own 00 Monte Carlo at 60k miles that felt worse ( steering problems) than the civic at 90k. Im glad I never got the late 90's S-10 I had originally planned on buying. Im sure there are many American cars that go beyond 200k, but thats pretty rare.

[Eric Z]

Very cool to hear about the positive customer service experiences. I agree that customer service has slipped dramatically in the past 5-7 years- the world is all about making the money up front! I liked the McDo example of the fries- it's pennies to McDonalds, but means tons to the customer. Same with the Tim Horton's experience- the cost of a frickin' bread bowl and chili is next to nothing.

I worked at a large department clothing store in high school and part of the training was, return anything! Even if someone brought in a noticeably worn pair of jeans- return it, or store credit without a receipt- the customers were so darn happy. Did some customers take advantage of it? Of course they did, but a pair of jeans or button down dress shirts once in a while didn't affect their profits too much!

Nice to hear the positive stories of customer service.

[dave123456@mail.com]

I went ahead and got PSB Stratus Minis irrespective of the story because it really was the only story of dissatisfaction with PSB's service I had ever heard--and PSB resolved it well. After all, I had been listening to some very fine speakers by B & W, Dali, Sonus Faber, and others up to four times the price and the Stratus Minis seemed as good as they were and also had an overall balance giving a somewhat more distant perspective which I prefer for most recordings.

I also own the Stratus Mini's, and I also enjoy their dark midrange and mellow ( somewhat cut off) highs. My cd collection has a lot of not so good recordings, lots of pop and rock, so not having everything upfront is a good thing imo. At first I was having a lot of problems with my system, but after some placement and room acoustics changes ive realized these are pretty good speakers. I still havent gotten these speakers to sound exactly how I want them, but im guessing after more work to the room then they will become much more enjoyable.

[Pat D]

I also own the Stratus Mini's, and I also enjoy their dark midrange and mellow ( somewhat cut off) highs. My cd collection has a lot of not so good recordings, lots of pop and rock, so not having everything upfront is a good thing imo. At first I was having a lot of problems with my system, but after some placement and room acoustics changes ive realized these are pretty good speakers. I still havent gotten these speakers to sound exactly how I want them, but im guessing after more work to the room then they will become much more enjoyable.

I particularly was impressed with their smooth performance with massed upper strings, better than most speakers. They sounded very nice on all sorts of music, and still do, whether full orchestra, male and female vocals, mixed chorus, piano, harpsichord, guitar. They really are a first class speaker and seem to have no significant faults, things that one notices while listening to them.

PSB informed me that there has been a minor crossover modification since the review in Stereophile, but I doubt if it changed the highs. In any case, their measurements indicate a very flat response (for a speaker) which declines very gently. The high frequencies are certainly there, but not as prominently as with many.

http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerre...29/index4.html

Yes, the upper treble (triangles, tinkly bells, and so on are not as prominent as with many other good speakers. On some recordings, a somewhat more forward presentation is nice but with others this can sound colored or unnatural. My Quad preamp has its Tilt control rather than conventional bass and treble controls, but I suspect a little touch to the treble control would bring up the extreme highs, if desired for some recordings. Had I wanted a somewhat more forward balance, I could have gotten the B & W 705 (they work well with a subwoofer) or the Paradigm Signature S2 (and might have had I been able to get one in for a direct comparison).

My speakers are placed about 20 inches from the rear wall, which is where the balance with male voices seems best, and about 3 feet from the side walls. The speakers are about 7 feet apart and the center listening position is a bout 9.5 feet from the speakers. They re toed in some but I can still see the "inside" side of the speakers from the center listening position (much as the owners manual suggests!), which seems to give me the smoothest presentation of the massed strings on some recordings. The room set up is a bit peculiar and can't much be helped. The equipment cabinet (open, no glass doors) is on the left side wall but all there is on the right is a large overstuffed chair. A room friendly speaker with a wide and even dispersion, like the Stratus Mini, can take this in stride.