Poor customer service from Paradigm Electronics

[Brianphoto]

I have to post to convey my experience with customer service at Paradigm Electronics. I had purchased $8500.00 worth of Studio Reference speakers including a Servo 15v1 subwoofer. After 1 month the sub developed a an internal rattle which could not be fixed by my dealer so it was sent to Paradigm and they sent me a new unit. The new unit had obvious defects in the cabinet, chipped wood around the driver opening as well as 2 places where the laminate had separated from the wood. I sent the sub back to Paradigm and after more than 2 months their response was the sub had water damage and all they were willing to do was "fill" the areas and send it back to me. They sent me photos of the repair job and I told them that it was not acceptable to me. Since the v1 was no longer made they said there was nothing they would do. I offered to pay the difference for a new v3 model but they would not consider that as an option and just sent the sub back to me. I have posted pictures of the sub at www.prophotographics.ca/paradigm.htm for people to see what they have sent me. Their final comment was to leave the grill on and nobody will notice. In my opinion this is just not good enough. This is an expensive piece of equipment and I think I deserve to be treated better. So if you are thinking about purchasing Paradigm equipment, go ahead, if you don't mind dealing with lousey customer service when you need it! Come on Paradigm, remember it is us, the little consumer who keeps you in business. I don't know where to go from here so if anyone has any comments or suggestion I would appreciate it.....

[Geoffcin]

I have to post to convey my experience with customer service at Paradigm Electronics. I had purchased $8500.00 worth of Studio Reference speakers including a Servo 15v1 subwoofer. After 1 month the sub developed a an internal rattle which could not be fixed by my dealer so it was sent to Paradigm and they sent me a new unit. The new unit had obvious defects in the cabinet, chipped wood around the driver opening as well as 2 places where the laminate had separated from the wood. I sent the sub back to Paradigm and after more than 2 months their response was the sub had water damage and all they were willing to do was "fill" the areas and send it back to me. They sent me photos of the repair job and I told them that it was not acceptable to me. Since the v1 was no longer made they said there was nothing they would do. I offered to pay the difference for a new v3 model but they would not consider that as an option and just sent the sub back to me. I have posted pictures of the sub at www.prophotographics.ca/paradigm.htm for people to see what they have sent me. Their final comment was to leave the grill on and nobody will notice. In my opinion this is just not good enough. This is an expensive piece of equipment and I think I deserve to be treated better. So if you are thinking about purchasing Paradigm equipment, go ahead, if you don't mind dealing with lousey customer service when you need it! Come on Paradigm, remember it is us, the little consumer who keeps you in business. I don't know where to go from here so if anyone has any comments or suggestion I would appreciate it.....

Perhaps someone here can help you out of your pain.

[Brianphoto]

Perhaps someone here can help you out of your pain.

I certainly hope so, this has gotten to be very time consuming as well as frustration to say the least. Not easy trying to take on big business by yourself.

[RGA]

I was just about to say Post this on audioasylum but I see you already have.

I can;t tell from your post but is paradigm fully aware of the problem. From what I can see you just purchased a paradigm Reference system - V2?? and you just purchased it from an Authorized dealer and it is just one month old. am i correct?

You have a problem with the sub and you took it back to the dealer? Correct?

Then Paradigm sends you a DIFFERENT badly finished subwoofer?? Correct?

Now if the sub you purchased has a five year warranty which I believe is the case then in Canada you they either fix the sub, replace the sub with a NEW current equiveleant model OR they give you your money back. Indeed, if they can't replace it with the exact model then i believe in Canada YOU the customer get the choice of your money back or the new model. You can write them a firm letter of the steps you will take if they don't resolve the issue properly -- actually I'd be going through your dealer as much as possible.

1) Write a letter e-mail of the situation from start to finish with all correspondence
2) Send this to Paradigm with the date at the top and a CC at the bottom so they know you are keeping copies of all correspondence - that CC will usually scare them because they know the next step is a lawyer. Some companies that get big are bullies and they bluff you -- call them -- the last thing they are ever going to want to do is send some $250,000 a year lawyer to small claims court to LOSE to you anyway.
3) by now something should get done -- if not
4) send another letter witht he intention of going to a lawyer and to the better business review board (By the way keep track of all the time this is wasting you so that when the time comes you can nail them for a few thousand dollars of wasting your time and distress and any other thing you can possibly concoct along with any lawyer bills)
5) Find small claims lawyer. Lawyer will send them a letter -- this will in all likelyhood get the problem solved.

It's rare for a company to do all of this but if you are indeed in the right and you don;t get ti resolved just keep bashing them on audio forums - punish them the only place they are interested in -- the bank account...lots of other speakers people can buy instead.

[Woochifer]

Have you checked back with your dealer to see what your options are? They're actually the first point of contact on these matters. Dealing directly with the company can be a major headache because an individual customer does not have as much pull as a dealer might, since they have to maintain regular contact.

If your dealer does not know about the problems you've been having, then you should talk to them, since they're the ones that probably have more at stake by keeping you happy as a customer. The unit is still under warranty, and you should have other options open.

In a way, you're stuck because that model indeed is no longer manufactured, so Paradigm probably does not have any spare Servo 15 enclosures lying around. And I doubt that they keep much of the laminate that went with that series either, since they've now gone to a different color scheme.

But, my bigger question to you is why does all this matter? Looking at the pictures, the blemish is in an area not immediately visible when the grille is on. And looking at the pictures on that website, the blemish doesn't look like it's all that big when it's not magnified. In audio, the most important aspect of a system is its sound performance. The first problem that you encountered with the rattle was consequential because it affected the sound quality. The problem that you've thus far been unable to resolve does not affect the sound quality.

But, from what your website says, if the laminate defect was there from the beginning, then why did you raise a stink about it until after you sent the unit back to Paradigm? If the workmanship was not to your liking from the very beginning, then you should have immediately alerted your dealer to the issue.

Basically, it comes down to whether some cosmetic defects are worth crusading in public over. If some blems hidden behind the grille mean that much to you, then by all means follow RGA's scream-bloody-murder-until-somebody-notices prescription. The problem with that approach is that going onto these audio boards just to vent and complain, without contributing anything else useful, is pretty much a red flag for the regulars to tune you out.

[Brianphoto]

Woochifer, I appreciate your comments as well as any comments from any other posters here. Believe me the defects are much more noticable in person than the photos actually show. After spending alot of hard earned money on this sub I guess I expect it to be mechanically and sonically perfect and not feel like I have to cover up flaws with a grill when company comes over. It is after all a show peice as well. And sorry to disagree with you but I feel informing others on this forum of my experience with Paradigm is a viable contribution. The people who have thanked me seem to think so. Would you be satisfied if you were in my position?

[bjornb17]

i feel your pain.

it sucks when you put your trust into a company and get shafted like this.

[Brianphoto]

Thanks bjornb17, most people feel the same, appreciate your comments.

[Woochifer]

Woochifer, I appreciate your comments as well as any comments from any other posters here. Believe me the defects are much more noticable in person than the photos actually show. After spending alot of hard earned money on this sub I guess I expect it to be mechanically and sonically perfect and not feel like I have to cover up flaws with a grill when company comes over. It is after all a show peice as well. And sorry to disagree with you but I feel informing others on this forum of my experience with Paradigm is a viable contribution. The people who have thanked me seem to think so. Would you be satisfied if you were in my position?

That depends on what you have done thus far to help yourself. You still haven't told us whether or not you've contacted your dealer to help you out with this problem, or why this matters to you so much now and did not seem to matter until after you sent the sub back to Paradigm. After all, your website says that these cosmetic flaws were there from the beginning, yet it did not seem to bother you until after the unit got sent in for repair.

Personally, I feel that any speaker with a laminate cabinet is not a "show" piece of any kind. It's strictly a functional box that does its job, and hopefully does it well. If it looks anywhere close to decent, then consider it a bonus. My sub's got all kinds of uneven seams and cheap looking paint on the front fascia, but it doesn't matter to me one bit because the driver is properly sealed into the cabinet with no air leaks (without the grille, the thing looks butt ugly because the driver mounting gasket sticks out of the cabinet and the hole is visibly bigger than it needs to be), and any cosmetic flaws are either covered by the grille or in the back where nobody's looking anyway.

Mechanical and sonic "perfection" I would regard in how it sounds, not how it looks. If this process is about some need to show your friends an impressive looking set of speakers, then you might as well go back to the beginning and make the whole process of speaker selection a beauty contest. Plenty of nice looking wood veneered speakers out there, if you're willing to sacrifice some of the sound quality to get that look.

Contributing to forums means making regular contributions and sharing experiences. Thus far, you've come on here and just griped about the customer service and through your website urge people to "never" buy Paradigm products and say that there are "much better quality products out there." No comments at all about the sound quality or about the product itself or any suggestions about what other companies have better customer service or better quality products.

[Brianphoto]

Woochifer, sorry your sub is so butt ugly. With all of the uneven seams and chep looking paint you may want to get a new one. I have a Servo 15 for sale if you like, just leave the grill on and it looks brand new, you'll love it.

[Brianphoto]

Wireworm5, there is nothing fishy here but it is great to have comments from the opposite side in here as well we all appreciate opposite opinions as it makes for a much better debate.

The longer threads go the more they get diluted and more of the post is lost so I will repost with in more dtail.

In October 2003 I purchased a brand new reference system from my local dealer including a new Servo 15 v1. Two months later, in December, the sub developed an internal rattle which could not be repaired by my dealer so it was sent to Paradigm which they replaced with a brand new Servo 15v1. I noticed defects in the cabinet, under the grill a couple of weeks later. It was now a few days before Christmas and I did not want to deal with it during Christmas so my dealer wan not informed right away about it. I wanted to wait until Christmas was over. Unfortunately immediately after Christmas I was faced with a personal crisis, which I will not elaborate on here in this forum. It has been a year since I was physically able to have the subject of the sub seen to but the sub has not been used for a year. I have moved provinces since then and brought the sub to a local dealer here, not the original place of purchase. They sent the sub away for me over 2 months ago and never got any satisfaction from Paradigm so they basically told me I should deal with Paradigm myself. Since they never sold the sub to me originally they were not very helpful. 3 weeks ago Paradigm told me that the v1 was not made anymore and there was nothing they could do for me, only repair the damaged wood. I was not happy with the results and told them I would pay the difference for a newer v3. They would not do that and just sent the sub back to me in it's present state. Hope this clarifies thing more.

[Woochifer]

Woochifer, sorry your sub is so butt ugly. With all of the uneven seams and chep looking paint you may want to get a new one. I have a Servo 15 for sale if you like, just leave the grill on and it looks brand new, you'll love it.

My sub looks fine -- that's what grilles are for. It also sounds fine, which is why I'm not looking to buy a new one any time soon.

If you're serious about selling the Servo 15, you'll have no shortage of takers. Sealed acoustic suspension subs that extend down past 18 Hz and sell for $1,500USD are few and far between. In fact, the Servo 15 very well might have been the only sub in its price class with those kinds of performance credentials in a sealed box design. The new v.2 version extends below 15 Hz and has a higher peak SPL, but the price also got bumped up by $700USD. Because of that price jump and because the older Servo 15s already had more than enough bass for most rooms, you should have no problem getting a high resale.

Then the question becomes, what do you replace it with? Most of your options in that price range that can deliver the Servo 15's bass output are ported designs, and those have a noticeably different type of sound. Louder, more assertive, but not as clean and tight as a sealed box.

[Wireworm5]

Just to be a Devils advacate. I find it hard to believe that a authorized Paradigm dealer wound sell you a model that was no longer in production. If however as you claim you purchased this out of date sub recently from an authorized dealer and it is still under warranty. Then I would assume that Paradigm views this kind of damage as negligence on your part and therefore not covered by the warranty. If so, from their point of view they are not obligated to do anything for you. But they're giving you the benefit of a doubt by replacing a sub that was mis-used by you or whom ever, for one that works.
Maybe your looking a gift-horse in the mouth?

[Brianphoto]

Wireworm5, I appreciate the devils advocate approach but you are way off base here. Paradigm did not replace the second sub, they merely repaired it in a manner that was not acceptable to me. The defects were manufacturing related and not a result of any sort of abuse, they just refuse to take resposibility for it.

[Wireworm5]

Wireworm5, I appreciate the devils advocate approach but you are way off base here. Paradigm did not replace the second sub, they merely repaired it in a manner that was not acceptable to me. The defects were manufacturing related and not a result of any sort of abuse, they just refuse to take resposibility for it.

I understand your disappointment with the second sub. But I'm saying Paradigm probably doesn't feel obligated to warranty your first sub. The fact they sent you a working second sub blemished or not is a bonus, rather than have no sub at all.

[RGA]

Woochifer

After reading it again it sounds like he bought a brand new sub after 2 months it rattled - sends it back -- they replace it with a new one (I assume a V2) but the one they sent has water damageand blemishes thatthe original one did not.

Granted to you and I and many the blemishes may not be a big deal. On the other hand I think it's a matter of principal -- yoy buy a pristine product and you pay hard earned money for it. The product fails which the company admits to as they send out another -- the one they send him as a replacement is a scuffed up water damaged mess "The new unit had obvious defects in the cabinet, chipped wood around the driver opening as well as 2 places where the laminate had separated from the wood. I sent the sub back to Paradigm and after more than 2 months their response was the sub had water damage and all they were willing to do was "fill" the areas and send it back to me."

if their response was that it had water damage then I'm sorry this is just wrong -- whether it is a sionic masterpiece or not -- if i buy a Red Ferrari and I have an engine problem send it to the dealer and they sdecide to give me a replacement loaded with dents and a pink door I'd be pretty choked -- even if it goes from point a to point b as good as ever. Speakers are part of ones furniture after all.

I would expect a company this size frankly to just send him a brand spanking new subwoofer in mint shape - iot really does nto cost them much in the big sceme of things. And in Canada they are SUPPOSED to keep a sufficient supply of all parts including the cabinets for 7 years beyond the last year the unit was sold (same goes for car parts) Pretyt sure on this unless the Canadian Government changed it.

If Paradigm admits that tthe replacement has water damage then in a couple of years it is conceivable that the sub cabinet will completely fall apart. So if I got that message even if the cabinet was in reasonable shape I'd be wanting a replacement.

To me it's principle -- why should this guy accept anything less than what he paid for -- he paid for a working subwoofer wiothout water damage without a bunch of blemishes -- and that is exactly what he should get nothing less.

I don't see what his post count has to do with anything -- for all we know this could be his first system. My only complaint is they he has not been as descriptive of the events and messages back and forth...I like the details to be presented and i get the sense there is some information we're not getting -- namely Paradigm's side of the story.

[Wireworm5]

If in fact BP purchased a pristine Servo 15 v1 sub at and authorized dealer then I too believe Paradigm should honour the warranty if no negligence was involved on his part with a brand new up to date sub of the same model. But if this is the case then this dealer hasn't sold a Servo sub in at least 5 years, not a location Paradigm would want to have for very long. If on the other hand the dealer had this used servo 15 v1 which he threw in to sweeten the deal, which at best is worth $300 to $500 bucks. BP buys it not knowing it was previously damaged by previous owner or purposely damages it in the hopes of getting a brand spanking new one for a mere $500, in either of these two scenarios the sub is damaged due to negligence and the warranty void, but Paradigm replaces it with sub of equal value giving him the benefit of a doubt. Lets take this logic further, he's trying to tell us that if he made the same deal on a newer improved Servo 15 v2 sub for $500 bucks he would not have bought it cause it had a cosmetic blemish on it that you can't see with the grill on. So now he's willing to foot the difference on a brand spanking new Servo 15 v3 which his authorized dealer never carried cause he still hasn't sold his old stock from over 5 years ago. Something smells fishy here.

[Brianphoto]

RGA, the analogy about the re Ferarri is great. It may perform great but it should also look great as well. And you also brought up the point about a manufacturer having to stock parts for a discontinued item for a period of 7 years is a great point as well, although I think the time period is 5 years. I am in Canada so this is an angle I will look into further for sure. Thanks for that RGA!

[Woochifer]

Woochifer

After reading it again it sounds like he bought a brand new sub after 2 months it rattled - sends it back -- they replace it with a new one (I assume a V2) but the one they sent has water damageand blemishes thatthe original one did not.

Granted to you and I and many the blemishes may not be a big deal. On the other hand I think it's a matter of principal -- yoy buy a pristine product and you pay hard earned money for it. The product fails which the company admits to as they send out another -- the one they send him as a replacement is a scuffed up water damaged mess "The new unit had obvious defects in the cabinet, chipped wood around the driver opening as well as 2 places where the laminate had separated from the wood. I sent the sub back to Paradigm and after more than 2 months their response was the sub had water damage and all they were willing to do was "fill" the areas and send it back to me."

Sure, it's a matter of principle, but I also look at matters of practicality. Are the issues at hand worth all the trouble and hassle in the name of principle? Personally, I don't think that cosmetic issues are, particularly those that aren't readily visible. The other issue is that the original poster waited so long to raise a stink about it, and his website said that these cosmetic flaws were there from the beginning. So long as the driver is properly sealed with no air leaks, the appearance of the juncture is inconsequential to me. If anything, I'm surprised that Paradigm went with a flushed driver mount on the Servo 15 because the tolerances have to be so much tighter than with the surface mounting that all of Paradigm's bookshelf and tower speakers use.

if their response was that it had water damage then I'm sorry this is just wrong -- whether it is a sionic masterpiece or not -- if i buy a Red Ferrari and I have an engine problem send it to the dealer and they sdecide to give me a replacement loaded with dents and a pink door I'd be pretty choked -- even if it goes from point a to point b as good as ever. Speakers are part of ones furniture after all.

Once again, your car analogy does not work because the cosmetic flaw in question is not in a normally visible area. A more appropriate car analogy would be finding paint chips and scratches on the engine block. You could choose to raise a stink about it just because it's there, or you could just go on enjoying your Ferrari, since no one will notice it anyway with the hood down.

Besides, laminate cabinets are not exactly fine furniture. Doesn't matter how well it approximates the look of wood, it is what it is -- a vinyl stickyback that covers the MDF layer. If you want something that looks good, go for the wood veneer option. If you prefer utilitarian function and saving a few bucks, go with the laminate.

If Paradigm admits that tthe replacement has water damage then in a couple of years it is conceivable that the sub cabinet will completely fall apart. So if I got that message even if the cabinet was in reasonable shape I'd be wanting a replacement.

Completely fall apart? Let's not get too far removed from reality here. It would take a lot of water damage to rot away the structure of a braced MDF cabinet. I've left cheap particleboard bookcases outdoors for an entire rainy season, and they did not fall apart. If the water damage were that debilitating, then it would stand to reason that the first sign that something's amiss would be air leaks around the driver. That would be a justifiable reason for cabinet replacement since it has a direct bearing on the performance of the subwoofer.

I don't see what his post count has to do with anything -- for all we know this could be his first system. My only complaint is they he has not been as descriptive of the events and messages back and forth...I like the details to be presented and i get the sense there is some information we're not getting -- namely Paradigm's side of the story.

It's not the post count, it's when people come onto a board for the sole purpose of venting and complaining, without contributing anything else. Seems that the original poster has gone onto other boards and posted the same message. It's fine, since it doesn't violate any board rules. But, on the other hand, people whose messages only consist of complaints are often viewed with skepticism. That's why I disagreed with your suggestion that the poster just keep bashing them on audio forums. If complaints and bashing represent the only contributions to those audio forums, then people will tune out in a hurry.

[dave123456@mail.com]

Woochifer


if i buy a Red Ferrari and I have an engine problem send it to the dealer and they sdecide to give me a replacement loaded with dents and a pink door I'd be pretty choked

lol thats hilarious. I can imagine a pink door slipping past QC at the last minute ( probably due to a disgruntled temp worker) and then sent to you like everything is fine .

I also read what you wrote about Hondas. My first car was a 99 Black Civic dx coupe and I loved it. Great car. It was stolen so now I drive an 02 civic.