Kid, Klipsch owners, biamping etc.

[JohnMichael]

I vote for dual amp bi-wiring.

[harley .guy07]

I am pretty much done with this conversation, If I wanted to run around in circles I would just go outside my house and do it and not waste time of my computer arguing about the same thing. I know what I know and my mind is not going to change and it sounds like yours isn't either so I will just leave you to believe what you want.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I vote for dual amp bi-wiring.

Agreed...a chicken sandwich for JM!!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I am pretty much done with this conversation, If I wanted to run around in circles I would just go outside my house and do it and not waste time of my computer arguing about the same thing. I know what I know and my mind is not going to change and it sounds like yours isn't either so I will just leave you to believe what you want.

I believe in what is factual, and I proved it with the link. So the only thing you know is that your information is wrong. You cannot call a pig a dog because both have a tail and four legs. You cannot call a mouse a cat because both have four legs and a tail. And you cannot call bi-wiring bi-amping because both use external amps driving different drivers. There is a very distinct difference between the two whether you choose to recognize that or not.

Not trying to be disrespectful, just factual.

[Mr Peabody]

Actually, T, all your link proved is that others disagree on the topic and other forums are not an authority on anything, they are no more or less qualified than we are.

[harley .guy07]

thanks Mr. P for allowing these people to know that just because another forum says something does not mean that it is any more right than what we are saying. Other than that thats all I have to say as well.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Actually, T, all your link proved is that others disagree on the topic and other forums are not an authority on anything, they are no more or less qualified than we are.

No it does not prove that at all. It proves that there is a difference between bi-amping and bi-wiring - something I have know since I purchased the powered ATC speakers for one of my audio tracking rooms. It is unfortunate that with all of your "supposed" audio knowledge that you have no clue about the difference between the two.

Just to show you how wrong you are, and why I think you are hearing things(you do have a history of this..remember HDMI?), here are several more links that describe the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping.

http://www.audioholics.com/education...ng-vs-biwiring

Here are several key comments from this link.

There are mixed opinions about biwiring. I for one biwire my mains simply because I have the means to do so as I own a pair of specific biwire cables given to me as a gift. The sonic differences are subtle, if any.

This is why I think you are hearing things. Nobody I know can hear the difference between a bi-wired and non bi-wired set up, even on speakers with much higher resolution than the Heresy can achieve.

Notice this comment as well...

There are some benefits if you are biamping with identical amps in the system. By doing so, you are now driving the speaker system with dedicated amplifiers for the High Pass (HP) and Low Pass (LP) portions. This may help in bass response, dynamics, and overall fidelity.

Since you are not doing this with your Heresy's, then you are not bi-amping, you are bi-wiring. You even admitted that you did not mess with the crossover system - and there is also the fact that the Heresy's cannot be bi-amped, they can only be bi-wired.

Here is another link:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tips_biwir..._biamping.html

Notice these words as well...

Will it sound any different if you biwire? Some users think it does, but I've never heard any differences, nor have any of our laboratory measurements or scientifically controlled double blind listening tests ever demonstrated there are audible differences.

Oh, and notice these words as well....

Bi-amping, or biamplification, is used mainly in professional sound reinforcement applications, where extremely high levels of loudness are required. Here big, separate amplifiers powering the low frequencies, and smaller amps for the midrange will increase overall output. Sometimes they will use a separate outboard electronic crossover (the speaker's internal crossover is disabled or bypassed entirely) so the operator can vary and adjust individual crossover frequencies, tailor the “slope” of the crossover to match the strengths of each set of drivers, and also adjust the relative sonic balance of bass, midrange and treble to suit the environment. This is important for huge auditoriums or outdoor events where separate arrays of treble and midrange horns are operating with big “bass bins,” but such systems have no place in domestic home theater systems in normal rooms.

Notice the description on how bi-amping works. Also notice the comments of necessity in the home environment - hence why so few speakers have actual bi-amping capabilities. Notice how he states bi-amping is for application that require extremely high levels of loudness. A highly efficent speaker such as the Heresy does not need to be bi-amped, it is capable of very high output levels without it.

Here is another link

http://www.oregondv.com/Audio_FAQ_Bi-Wire_Bi-amp%20.htm

Notice this comment...

True bi-amping involves hooking the preamp to an electronic crossover that replaces the passive crossover network in the speaker. The active crossover then connects to multiple power amplifiers. For example, one amplifier for the woofer and another amplifier for the mid/highs. The internal speaker crossover network must be eliminated. bi-amping is a difficult and expensive approach that is not typically employed.

Here is another link

http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

and another...

http://www.wired4sound.net.au/public_html/bi_wiring.pdf

Now to top this off, one of the most informative posts about the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/56...-material.html

Notice these comment from major speaker manufacturers on bi-wiring

M&K Doesn't Believe in Bi-Wiring:

or this one..

The late Peter Snell was an early bi-wire fan, and later recanted saying it was ‘baloney’. Many TOP speaker companies now either don’t offer the ‘dual’ terminals at all or do so only for bi-amping purposes. Many speak openly about its detrimental effects.

Now as you can see, there is nothing ambiguous about the difference between bi-wiring and bi-amping. Since you have a history of hearing things no other human can hear, I would take your claims of the audible advantages of bi-wiring the Heresy with not just a bag of salt, but the entire salt factory.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

thanks Mr. P for allowing these people to know that just because another forum says something does not mean that it is any more right than what we are saying. Other than that thats all I have to say as well.

I have provided several more links to prove my point, would you like me to post more? Perhaps it is time to embrace what is factual instead of holding on to what has now been proven as nonfactual.

I mean no disrespect towards you at all, but just want to set the record straight.

[RGA]

I have always been told that Bi Amping was the route to take for speakers that benefit from it. I have also been told that very few speakers actually can take advantage of biwiring and that many makers just put the extra connectors on the back for the "appearances" as for awhile speakers that did not have the fancy connectors were deemed "low end."

The only speakers that I have owned where biwiring works is my Audio Note J speakers - due to the way the terminals on the back are made. They may not be unusual but they're unusual to any speaker I have connected in the past. Looking at the back they have LF on the right and HF on the left. Single wiring you choose either the HF or the LF to make your connections. What is not shown on the picture in the manual is that there is a thin piece of silver wire that connects the LF to the HF. When Biamping or biwiring that piece of silver bar is removed. Page 9 of manual http://www.audionote.co.uk/downloads...N-J_manual.pdf

The recommendation is to bi-wire when possible but that a better single cable wire is better than two poorer cables. And Bi-amping is better.

But let's be realistic - the frenzy over these arguments is odd - dealers here will let you take home the wires before you buy - Best-Buy has a 14 day return policy. SO take it home and try it out. I suspect it's going to be very speaker dependent and possibly system and 'ears" dependent. I have not really tired biwiring with my AN J so I can't say (I simply don't have two good runs of wires to do it). I suppose I could give it a try - might be interesting.

[JohnMichael]

RGA I agree the benefits of bi-wiring a speaker can vary widely. I do have a nice pair of Audioquest internally bi-wired cables so I do bi-wire. I think the jumpers supplied with my speakers are what creates the audible improvement when I bi-wire.

The Monitor Audio RS6's if I single wire them sound best when I use the upper frequency terminals and let the jumpers take the lows to the low frequency. Since the RS6's are 2 1/2 way speakers the single wire attached to the upper frequency drives the drivers covering the midrange and tweeter. Only the bottom driver is connected to the low frequency terminal. This minimizes some of the negative effects of the jumpers.

Bi-wiring the Mobile Fidelity OML1's is again an improvement over using the jumpers. When a single wire is connected to the mid/woofer the soundstage in the upper frequencies is narrowed. A rather strange effect when I first heard it. The OML1's strongly suggest that the high and low frequencies cables be of the same guage cables.

I thought about buying better jumpers but since I am pleased with the AQ's I have not bothered. I agree with the idea of not buying cheap cables just to bi-wire. I think your silver jumpers may negate the benefit of bi-wiring.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The speakers you see in my sig are quad amped, which is why you see so many amps. I have the capability to quad-wire, quad-amp, and to use a single amp to power them. I have heard these speakers in all of these incarnations, and I have never been able to hear any improvement between the single amp, and the quad-wire approach. Quad-amping produced a huge improvement, especially during dynamic peaks, so I opted to keep them in this configuration permanently. What is not mentioned in my sig(no space) is the California Audio labs amps that power the sub portion of the speakers and the dedicated subs, and the DSP based crossover and tuning system.

I do not recommend this approach to everyone because of the cost and complexity of set up and calibration. However, when you are in a very big room, the peak dynamic capability comes in handy.

[filecat13]

I acquired a set of JBL L250 speakers for a few hundred dollars, removed all the stock drivers, and disconnected the massive crossover. I then put in a newer version of the 14" woofer, a completely different 8" driver, 4" driver, and 1.5" tweeter. All three of those are Ti drivers, with the 8" and 4" being inverted domes and the tweet being a more or less conventional dome.

A friend from JPL (not JBL) soldered leads direct to the speakers, which we ran out to four Hafler stereo amps. Three amps are 300W/ch at 8 Ohms and the one feeding the woofers is 600W/ch at 8 Ohms.

The amps are fed by two BSS 366T Omnidrive plus speaker management units, with four of their six channels in use for each speaker. My JPL buddy used London Soundweb software to set the crossover points and EQ for each driver, then for each speaker, then for the pair, using calibrated mics and an input board.

This was a lot of effing work and took about four weekends from initial driver testing outdoors (neighbors loved it) to installation and calibration.

This "simple" project ended up costing a lot, though it produced an exceptionally fine set of speakers. This is a real, active quad-amped system.

It bests another active system I have that is bi-amped using an external two-way crossover in a four-way system. Obviously, the internal, passive crossover in this other system is still partially in operation. And this bi-amped system using an external crossover for HP/LP is notably better than it was before doing this.

Most of my other speakers with LF and HF inputs just get one wire in from an amp with plenty of headroom.