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  1. #1
    Forum Regular psonic's Avatar
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    how do you rate these floorstanders? this is my demo list...

    I have been auditioning floorstanders under $1000. I am in the Philadelphia area and open to driving around a bit and auditioning others you may recommend, only new floorstanders though. This is what I have listened to at length so far in no particular order just to get your candid impressions and see how they compare with mine...


    boston acoustics VR2 http://www.bostonacoustics.com/hs_pr...7&CategoryID=2

    energy C-5 http://www.energyloudspeakers.com/co...kers1_c-5.html

    b&w 603 http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...l%20DM603%20S3

    kef Q5 http://www.kef.com/products/qseries/qseries5.html

    paradigm monitor 9 http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Site...nitorSpecs.htm

    magnepan MMG http://www.magnepan.com/

  2. #2
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    They are all fine, well built speakers from reputable companies who stand behind what they sell. What matters most is YOUR impression of them. You'll be the one living with them, not us.

    FWIW, I've got maggies myself.

  3. #3
    JSE
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    What Mark said. Except I own Bostons.

    JSE

  4. #4
    Forum Regular TinHere's Avatar
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    See if you can get an audition of Rocket 550's. Check at http://www.audioenvy.com/ to see if anyone in your area has them or post a request at the AV123.com forum if nobody nearby is listed.

    Info about 550's at:

    http://www.av123.com/products_produc...rs&product=3.1

    Happy hunting.
    TinHere

    Enjoying a virtual life.

  5. #5
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    I believe you could get a pair of Paradigm Studio 60s under $1000, which I think are even better than Monitor 9s. Anyway, you have an excellent list and it is your taste that is important.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  6. #6
    RGA
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    Pretty much agree with the others...but since you asked I would take all the speakers over the Paradigm Monitor 9 though I have not heard the Magnepan(which I should imagine will have an entirely distinct sound). Planars and stats have certain advantages and disadvantages but I prefer music to have a more meat on the bones presentation than that with which I have heard from planars. But they have supporters.

    The Energy C5 and 603S3 I like because if home theater is your bag they both front nice home theater but also sound musically solid. You do have to watch out for the treble response in both lines and the 603S3 has a bigger warmer sound than the punchy but thinner sounding Energy. I only heard the standmount Kef and it was an entertaining speaker - might sound a bit too polite for me...but the floorstander is bigger so - you'd be best to judge.

    DO try and listen in the same room with the same gear wher possible.

    I would also try and find the Audio Note Absolute Zero Two as it's in your price range and is also a floorstander. It's supposed to be very good and is very tube amp or low power amp friendly should you ever want to try tubes. The AN-K is a standmount version that I preferred over the standmounts from all the companies you list so who knows the floorstander may be as well. http://www.hifi.com.sg/products/spea.../az-series.htm

    3 different reviews from one review site...

    "Of all the components in the system, the AZ-Two speakers were the most enjoyable. Sonically, the Twos recalled the other horn speakers we’ve reviewed, the Loth-X Ion 4s. Both speakers produce a warm, coherent, and robust sound. However, the Twos have greater top end extension. I briefly considered keeping them as high-sensitivity backup speakers, but my experiment with the Anthem convinced me that the AZ-Twos and P Zero monoblocks sounded best when used together. (One thing: Audio Note must find something to protect the tweeters better than the salsa cups from El Pollo Loco that I used!) The Audio Note Zero System is one of the most satisfyingly musical performers I have heard in my home. The sound is decidedly non-audiophile. I discovered no new audio treats on my CDs. Instead, I found myself easing into the music and following musical lines and performances. The Zero System may not be much to look at, but its musical involvement is much greater than the sum of its parts."

    "The 24/96 DAC-Zero processor and CD-Drive are next in the chain. The DAC also utilizes a 6111WA tube in the output stage. The P Zero monoblock amps are small and light enough to carry with one hand. Each produces eight watts via two ECL882 (6BM8) tubes run in class AB2. Those eight watts power Audio Note’s AZ-Two speakers. The AZ-Twos are two-way, rear-horn-loaded designs. Each speaker features a soft dome tweeter and an eight-inch paper-coned woofer. The woofer sports a serious foam surround. However, because of their 93 dB sensitivity, the AZ-Twos don’t have to flex too much muscle to produce hefty levels of sound.

    And what a lovely sound the system makes! I can sum up the Zero System’s sound with four letters: Q-U-A-D. The system was smooth, coherent, musical, and easy to listen to, reminicent of our esteemed A.D. Banerjee’s E.A.R./Quad system. Music sounded organic and vibrant. No region in the frequency range was too agressive."

    "This extraordinary system inserts few “errors” into the reproduction of music. You get a full snapshot of the musical event. For the cost of some single components, you get a full impression of music, from the color of the sound to the rhythm of the beat and the emotion of the message. Highly, highly recommended."
    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...ionotezero.htm

  7. #7
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    Ears are like eyes.
    They're all different.
    Trust your own.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular psonic's Avatar
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    Geetings all,

    I am auditioning and using my own ears, and would not buy anything based on an online review or recommend. I have a very good ear for good speakers now, as I have listened to a lot of reference level expensive gear over the last year, so I am not hear for advice, as my mind is already made up unless something better comes along I have not heard yet. What I really want is your impressions of any of these, just to see if you saw the same strengths and weaknesses as I or if there is something else out there worth hearing.

    I only have a minute right now so I'll try to respond...

    RGA, the Kef Q5 is very nice and musical and with more bass compared to the C5. They are now my top 2, (even had them side by side!) and I am in love with the Kef's sound for just a little more money, fwiw Q5 is nicer looking and bi-wirable also. Comparing all I heard the C5 is just a little laid back, although very refined and neutral, with the Q5 being more lively although not boxy or boomy, yes its internally braced. There is a Audio Note dealer within 30min so I will call them about an audition. The 603 did not really move me, perhaps because it reminded me of my boston cr9 (without the boominess I have) very much.

    Pat D, the studio 60s are priced around double some of these models.

    Thanks

  9. #9
    RGA
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    Well you are on the right track listening obviously to much higher end speakers and it appears you have set a budget and are looking to their lower end models ot see how they fare.

    Look all of these speaker makers are reputable and can back their stuff up. The only reaso I added the Audio Note to the list is because they have a distinctly different approach to speaker making and will undoubtedly have a very different sound than some of the others. After a while when you consistantly hear the same KIND of speaker something else is either going to sound a bit off or incredibly right. The trick is determining if the different sound is correct. When I first heard the Martin Logan electrostats I felt they were the best speakers that could possibly be made...so transparent so detailed it was incredible. After several listens over time that advantage had been dispelled by the lack of integration of bass and a rather artificial feel sensed on more dynamic music...I still love the elctrostat sound but they're far from the perfection I heard on first listen.

    I would suggest before you go to the Audio Note dealer to do research on some of their other speakers that may fall into your budget and also find out what else they carry. There are many terrific lesser advertised speakers that may have models in your price range. No one location carries everything and heck there are probably 30 speakers that are not sold in Vancouver BC that I would like to hear - such as Von Shweikert, Harbeth, ATC, etc.

    My personal preference has led me away from speakers using metal tweeters though there are exceptions from JM Labs and B&W's Nautilus lines - but to my ear they become a bit harsh on longer listening with lower levels. You may not have the issue but you asked for strengths and weaknesses so this is a generalization - rather overly sweeping - of what I've heard over the years. I really feel a lot of speakers are being made to produce the pyrotechnics of home theater and not the organic presentation of music. It's almost a push to stress or highlight the midbass(creating a hum) and highlight and stress the treble...the pluck of a guitar is overly pronounced and totally made the Paradigm Monitor 5 unlistenable on guitar work from Jesse Cook.

    Just some musings.

  10. #10
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    I have been following this thread, waiting to see what you have narrowed your choices to. Especially since I am from the suburbs of Philly. I have listening to the same speakers as you and I have come to the same conclusion! For me a close third, was Mirage. Try checking out Tweeter, if you care for another choice. What placed them further down was the omnipolar design, I wasn't sure if I really cared for it. Did you list to the Sapphire line @ Tweeter? They sound really bright next to the Mirage, but that may be due to the Mirage being omnipolar. You may have already known this but you can listen to the KEF's and Energy side by side at World Wide Stereo in Ardmore. You may want to try to audition some Missions also, if you can find them. I have an older pair that I love, but haven't been able to find them around Philly yet. If you decide on Energy, check out Overtures in Delaware. They offered me a great deal on the C5's in a 5.1 system. Good luck, and let us know what you end up chossing.

  11. #11
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    The Paradigm Monitor, Energy Cons, and B&W 603's all sound better in smaller, bookshelf versions in my opinion. If I had to rate the ones I've heard from your list it'd be as follows:
    1) Magnepan MMG
    2) Paradigm Monitor 9's AND Boston Acoustic VR2's (a virtual tie, maybe slight edge to Paradigm on account of brighter sound for classical music, Boston's sound a bit warmer, preference thing)
    3) Energy C-5's
    4) B&W 603's

    I have no idea how the kef Q5's sound, never heard them before.
    I've owned the Energy's before, they served me very well, my best friend swears by the 603's.
    You've got a very good list here.

  12. #12
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    MMGs above the others that I've heard

    That is, the B&W, Energy, and Paradigms.

    As RGA guesses, the Magneplanar sound is distinctive. I would say an exceptional soundstage and transparency, with a "musicians in the room" sound that the other's don't have. That said, if you're a rock fan they might not have the "sock" that you crave if used by themselves.

    I use my MMGs with subwoofer, (PSP Subsonic 6), crossed over at 80Hz. That way I give up a little bass precision but gain more dynamic range and loudness with orchestral crecendos -- and rock as often as I listen to it.

  13. #13
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    That is, the B&W, Energy, and Paradigms.

    As RGA guesses, the Magneplanar sound is distinctive. I would say an exceptional soundstage and transparency, with a "musicians in the room" sound that the other's don't have. That said, if you're a rock fan they might not have the "sock" that you crave if used by themselves.

    I use my MMGs with subwoofer, (PSP Subsonic 6), crossed over at 80Hz. That way I give up a little bass precision but gain more dynamic range and loudness with orchestral crecendos -- and rock as often as I listen to it.
    Feaner, Just so you know Magnepan does not have the corner of the market on soundstage and transparency or the musicians in the room...nor is this an advantage inherent to planars and stats OVER boxed spekaers...though genrally speaking a planar or electrostat have an advantage over MOST boxed speakers in certain regards.

    I mention this because many people and has been mentioned in reviews left Quad electrostats to buy Audio Note which are in fact boxed designs. Audio Note's boxes happen to be significantly different than most however which may make them an exception to the rule.

  14. #14
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    I know people who have traded in Lincolns for Hyundai as well.

    Simply put, while some monkey coffins may come somewhat close to planars, planars have a distinct sound unlike ANY box speaker. I think it could be called openness, spaciousness, or air. You either love it or hate it. I started out with MMG's and shortly afterwards wanted more, more and more. Traded up to the 1.6's and haven't looked back since.

    I do have box speakers, but there are some things they simply cannot do. That's why planars sell.

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    Frankly I did not like the Maggies. Compared to Cadence hybrid electrostats they are nothing. Sorry to say that but its just my opinion. There are many boxed designs which take the pants off many full planar speakers like dynaudio, candece, jamo D870, JM-focal, sonus-farber. You can get open and airy sound from the mentioned speakers and they are very good at it. You would'nt believe that you are hearing boxes.

    Psonic you should hear the dynes, cadence, jamo D870, Jamo d590, Sonus farber grand. Trust me you will forget the planars. The higher end B&W's are also very very good.

    You also need to figure out how the speakers will sound in your home so try and get a home audition if possible.

  16. #16
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Planars don't have a monopoly on good sound

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Feaner, Just so you know Magnepan does not have the corner of the market on soundstage and transparency or the musicians in the room...
    Point is, though, that MMGs have the qualities mentioned, and are really the only speakers that do for US$550, or under $1000 for that matter.

  17. #17
    RGA
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    Yes but the MMG also lacks bass, dynamics top end extension, volume level, ease of driveability, ease of positioning all for a bit more delicacy in the mnidband. To me that would be a lot to trade for a novelty. Others won't feel that way so that's fine it's a preference.

    Note this is not my own listening this is reviewers and various owner's comments and a dealer here...who refused to pick up the line.

    I have heard some expensive Stats - if I listened to small ensemble works and strings Stats win...full orchestra and rock or dance and they lose. And obviously many people have 10k and have listened to Magnepan ML and Quad and actually went with something of the non planar design for a reason...preference.

  18. #18
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    Simply put, while some monkey coffins may come somewhat close to planars, planars have a distinct sound unlike ANY box speaker. I think it could be called openness, spaciousness, or air. You either love it or hate it. I started out with MMG's and shortly afterwards wanted more, more and more. Traded up to the 1.6's and haven't looked back since.

    I do have box speakers, but there are some things they simply cannot do. That's why planars sell.
    The point of many boxed speakers is not to sound like a panel...that would imply that panels are accurate which of course aren't. The typical verbiage of openness and air is used due to visual cues because their is openness and air around the speaker. And the reverse argument is the sound is hollow, shallow and without support. Boxed instruments have a box...piano, cello, guitar violin sound rich and warm the way they're supposed to through good boxed speakers.

    I'm also puzzled by your last statement...Planars sell? They're poor sellers compared to boxed designs...Magnepan is basically the only planar that has managed to stay alive in a big way and they're a damn small speaker maker compared to others in their price range.

    BTW, I'm not attacking planars and Stats...I've heard many and some depending on the price would get top marks from me...but my requirement is that they play all music well for the given genre. The Aerius i at 3k Cdn had some supurb attributes but fell down the list outside of soft music.

    And American Cars are atrocious so I would probably take a Hyundai over a Lincoln...especially if we're going by Lemon Aid's break down guide where Lincoln is one of the great expensive albatrosses around the owner's neck.

  19. #19
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    That is, the B&W, Energy, and Paradigms.

    As RGA guesses, the Magneplanar sound is distinctive. I would say an exceptional soundstage and transparency, with a "musicians in the room" sound that the other's don't have. That said, if you're a rock fan they might not have the "sock" that you crave if used by themselves.

    I use my MMGs with subwoofer, (PSP Subsonic 6), crossed over at 80Hz. That way I give up a little bass precision but gain more dynamic range and loudness with orchestral crecendos -- and rock as often as I listen to it.
    Feanors got the Maggies done right.

    Back in the days before subs were common, people had to live with the fact that modest sided planars don't have extended bass response. But today nearly everyone with a HT setup has a subwoofer. Now with the proper bass management you can have the best of both worlds, as even a modest sub can fill the bottom 50hz or so.

    I do disagree with people who would say that maggies have a distinctive sound. My view is that maggies have an incredible LACK of distinctive sound. What you give them is what you hear, and on good recordings it can seem like there's musicians in the room with you, NOT speakers!
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  20. #20
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    The point of many boxed speakers is not to sound like a panel...that would imply that panels are accurate which of course aren't. The typical verbiage of openness and air is used due to visual cues because their is openness and air around the speaker. And the reverse argument is the sound is hollow, shallow and without support. Boxed instruments have a box...piano, cello, guitar violin sound rich and warm the way they're supposed to through good boxed speakers.

    I'm also puzzled by your last statement...Planars sell? They're poor sellers compared to boxed designs...Magnepan is basically the only planar that has managed to stay alive in a big way and they're a damn small speaker maker compared to others in their price range.

    BTW, I'm not attacking planars and Stats...I've heard many and some depending on the price would get top marks from me...but my requirement is that they play all music well for the given genre. The Aerius i at 3k Cdn had some supurb attributes but fell down the list outside of soft music.

    And American Cars are atrocious so I would probably take a Hyundai over a Lincoln...especially if we're going by Lemon Aid's break down guide where Lincoln is one of the great expensive albatrosses around the owner's neck.

    Talk about a "colored" response.

    You've obviously made up your mind about speakers, and cars for that matter.

    I've heard many speakers in my time, even the huge and incredible Wilson series. I've yet to hear one produce the quality of the "boxed" sound of a grand piano, cello, or acoustic guitar like a planar. I've even had professional musicians come over and swear that someone was PLAYING guitar in the room when it was a recording.

    The problem with boxed speakers is just that, they are hollow boxes. The good manufactures try as hard as they can to damp them so they don't ring, and carefully shape their front surfaces, and interiors so there's no unwanted diffraction. There are some good ones, and some have drivers that are to die for, but they are all hampered by the "box"

    "Air" is not just something that is around the speakers. "Air" is a verb in this context, and some speakers have it and others don't.

    Yes, there aren't many planars out there for sale. Selling something that is difficult to make, and demanding a premium for it can be bad for business. But then there's not many Rolls Royce's either. Did you know that RR was nearly out of business? It seems that their dedication to producing uncompromised quality nearly doomed them. It's a good thing that BMW came to their rescue or it would have been another auto company gone bust.
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  21. #21
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Aye, preference, not novelty.

    [QUOTE=RGA]Yes but the MMG also lacks bass, dynamics top end extension, volume level, ease of driveability, ease of positioning all for a bit more delicacy in the mnidband. To me that would be a lot to trade for a novelty. Others won't feel that way so that's fine it's a preference.... /QUOTE]

    Planar users don't love them for the sake of novelty, but because they prefer them, and they prefer them because, in general, they do things others don't do.

    Maybe your silver-lined Audio Notes do some of the same things -- for four times price! I'll give up what Audio Notes do better for that price differential.

    OK, the choice between Cdn$2600 MG 1.6 and the low-end Audio Notes might be more difficult for me. But I have no problem choosing the MMGs over our poster's listed speakers.

  22. #22
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Talk about a "colored" response.

    The problem with boxed speakers is just that, they are hollow boxes. The good manufactures try as hard as they can to damp them so they don't ring, and carefully shape their front surfaces, and interiors so there's no unwanted diffraction. There are some good ones, and some have drivers that are to die for, but they are all hampered by the "box"
    Firstly many seem to want to defend their preference as fact. I own X speaker therefore it is best and they'll do precisely what you do whic is to provide anectdotal evidence that my musician friends think my speaker sounds like a guitar piano etc...then turn around and probably slam the speaker that was used in the recording process to get the piano to sound like a piano in the foirst place...and that speaker ladies and gentleman has a very good chanvce of being something many of us would not choose at the price point the B&W M801 or N801. A lot of speakers boxed or not can sound terrific - even those using metal tweeters which is not my favorite.

    Your comment about what many boxed speakers attempt to do is valid and has been my complaint for a long time...box resonances. Very expensive very heavy very well damped boxes can get rid of it...anything less and the result is a boxier sound. The reason many reviewers at Stereophile, Hi FI choice, Enjoythemusic.com, and dealers in business 30 years actually OWN Audio Note speakers in their homes not just giving good reviews, I suspect is because of the fact that they do exactly the opposite of typical boxed designs where they DON'T try to damp the box or use any damping materials including the dreaded ferro-fluid on the tweeters. The Box itself is involved in the sound and resonances are not kept in the box but released right away. Further the AN's don't have a piston or long throw type driver because the speaker is wider than it is deep.

    I can't speak to Magnepan but the AN E speaker starts at ~$2700.00US(List) and goes up to a 30k plus version. The Martin Logan Oddysey and N801 with all the great looks and neato technology don't sound as good...some speakers may have more bass depth, some will play louder, some will have technical superiority in certain areas...but as a cohesive unit from top to bottom they're the best speakers I've heard musically. I want to hear the $800.00US Zero Twos simply because they're compared with Quad...I can't think of any other boxed speaker that has been so often compared to electrostatic speakers...the difference is the Audio Note's I've heard actually have balls when it comes to playing a pop/dance or rock albums.

    Sound aside there are other limiting factors when assembling a system. Space(size of room and positioning), money for amplification, some people want SETs or other low powered pure class A amps and therefore need sensitive easy to drive speakers, system cost...it costs way more to get high powered amps to sound as good as low powered high quality amps.

    I like elctro stats and I would probably like the BIGGER planars. If ML had fixed a few issues up they would be right near the top of my list. This is not unlike why I preferred the Sennheiser HD600 over the Stax Lambda pro...the HD600 provides 90% of the detail in the midband but is a 4fold improvement in the bass and dynamics department...I'll sacrifice 10% in one area for a 400% improvement at the extremes and in dynamics especially if it costs less - a lot less - to get it.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular psonic's Avatar
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    tinhere, I have read about Swan before and that 550 is jaw drop sweet looking, I am going to look into auditioning that with the link you provided. The online reviews for Swan are excellent, although I agree with RGA and others in saying this is meaningless. My thinking is If a person bought a speaker why would he not be happy with it? Unless mechanical failure, it would be unlikely to see bad reviews. But just for kicks, if theres a local pair, I would love to hear them...or even Axiom M60's for the matter

    phillyguy, that is the store where I auditioned them side by side! small world out here on the www! I plan on taking my amp in there this week to hear them both at length. I stopped by Tweeter this weekend and I don't care for the Mirage line, not sure of the model, was around $800, but I didn't get 45 seconds in and couldn't tolorate the box resonances. Even my fiance started shaking her head! Not sure what type of music you played on them, but next time try something with some bass, you'll likely see what I mean. I rank this speaker down close to the Paradigm Monitor, the worst I've listened to in this bunch, though the Mirage has a better top end. I have been to Overtures also, that's where I heard the MMG's big brother. I am impressed, but they won't work in my current setup because they'd have to be about a foot off the wall and right on the side walls also (there's a cutout where my widescreen is, about 2' deep, only place I have for the speakers in my condo), so I am scratching them off my list. Be nice to buy in Delaware and pay no sales tax though! How much did they offer the C5 for? I thought $650 at WWS was under retail...

    some others I heard this weekend-

    Vienna Acoustics Bach ($1500) http://overture-audio.com/product_li...tics/bach.html -on clearance at $1000 (probably had for even less) as Tweeter is closing them out. They were a joy to listen to, with detailed warm sound and holographic imaging and big stage; sounding much like the pricier audiofile Sonus Faber Concerto (which I am very fond of) with a bit more low extension.These are sand fillable. The kicker here is they were this good on a top Yamaha receiver, which is a real credit to their flexibility, IMO. I could have had them move the Vienna to another room where there were amps, but time was running low so I am going in with my integrated amp for a second listen, which I believe will bring them up to another level. If they blow me away like I think they might, and I can cut them down a bit on price this, and the condition of the floor model is very good, then this thing may be happily over.

    Boston VR2 ($729) - Not bad, in fact good, just wasn't moved as much as with the Kef or C5. And don't like the cabinet as much either.

    Martin Logan ($1800) not sure of model - beautiful looking speaker, but I was telling the salesman the same thing RGA mentioned (Friday, before I read his post) about bloated bass from the woofer that isn't well-integrated with the sweet, open highs and mids I heard. Just stands out like a sore thumb, IMO. What a shame. I had him stop the audition 2 songs in...

    Mirage Floorstander not sure of model ($800?) - see first paragraph

    RGA, there is only 1 Audio Note dealer within a 1hr drive so hopefully he has some for audition, heck if only for reference purposes!

  24. #24
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Noo Joisey. Youse got a problem wit dat?
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    How's the view on that high horse of yours. Here's my view from behind it.

    Let’s get down to some of your contradictary statements, shall we? Let’s start with your responses to one of my posts.

    “The point of many boxed speakers is not to sound like a panel...that would imply that panels are accurate which of course aren't. The typical verbiage of openness and air is used due to visual cues because their is openness and air around the speaker. And the reverse argument is the sound is hollow, shallow and without support. Boxed instruments have a box...piano, cello, guitar violin sound rich and warm the way they're supposed to through good boxed speakers.”

    The instruments should sound boxy themselves. Are you saying that they need boxes to be reproduced correctly? By that logic, horns should be reproduced by horns, Organs by transmission lines speakers, et all. What would you recommend for an accordian? Funny, most of my "hearing impared" musician friends (mostly choral and orchestral) are very well impressed with the 1’6’s. But, what do they know...

    ”I'm also puzzled by your last statement...Planars sell? They're poor sellers compared to boxed designs...Magnepan is basically the only planar that has managed to stay alive in a big way and they're a damn small speaker maker compared to others in their price range.”

    Magnapan seems to be doing all right, at least as far as they are concerned. I don’t see then leaping to overextend their production capabilities to meet an increased demand. They obviously seem to be doing all right, at least by their expectations. Are you saying that Sony is a better manufactutrer because they make more and sell more?

    The word is “quality” with enough profit to maintain it. Not mere quantity. That’s what Radio Shack is for. Or you still pissed of that your “Audio Note- biggest manufacturer” post at AA got laughed out of the running? Was his observation that they put quality over quantity lost on you? …or are they the only manufacturer that abide by that philosophy?

    ”BTW, I'm not attacking planars and Stats...I've heard many and some depending on the price would get top marks from me...but my requirement is that they play all music well for the given genre. The Aerius i at 3k Cdn had some supurb attributes but fell down the list outside of soft music”’

    Yeah, right. You’re not attacking planars and stats. …just telling anyone that they shouldnlt even waste their time trying them. Must be nice to not have to live within budgetary constraints.

    Now, let’s look at your responses to Geoffcin, shall we?

    ”Firstly many seem to want to defend their preference as fact. I own X speaker therefore it is best and they'll do precisely what you do whic is to provide anectdotal evidence that my musician friends think my speaker sounds like a guitar piano etc...then turn around and probably slam the speaker that was used in the recording process to get the piano to sound like a piano in the foirst place...and that speaker ladies and gentleman has a very good chanvce of being something many of us would not choose at the price point the B&W M801 or N801. A lot of speakers boxed or not can sound terrific - even those using metal tweeters which is not my favorite.”

    Well ,I guess it’s all right when you defend your choices by pointing to all the reviewers that own them. After all, they know more about what music sounds like than musicians, right?

    ”Your comment about what many boxed speakers attempt to do is valid and has been my complaint for a long time...box resonances. Very expensive very heavy very well damped boxes can get rid of it...anything less and the result is a boxier sound. The reason many reviewers at Stereophile, Hi FI choice, Enjoythemusic.com, and dealers in business 30 years actually OWN Audio Note speakers in their homes not just giving good reviews, I suspect is because of the fact that they do exactly the opposite of typical boxed designs where they DON'T try to damp the box or use any damping materials including the dreaded ferro-fluid on the tweeters. The Box itself is involved in the sound and resonances are not kept in the box but released right away. Further the AN's don't have a piston or long throw type driver because the speaker is wider than it is deep."

    Yet, in your post to me, you're defending their boxiness as integral to reproducing wooden insturments correctly. Which is it? I gues that only Audio Note gets it correct, right? No, you're not defending your personal choices here, are you? I'm sure they are under $1000/pair, right? If not, then it's a moot point, but what do you care.

    ”I can't speak to Magnepan but the AN E speaker starts at ~$2700.00US(List) and goes up to a 30k plus version. The Martin Logan Oddysey and N801 with all the great looks and neato technology don't sound as good...some speakers may have more bass depth, some will play louder, some will have technical superiority in certain areas...but as a cohesive unit from top to bottom they're the best speakers I've heard musically. I want to hear the $800.00US Zero Twos simply because they're compared with Quad...I can't think of any other boxed speaker that has been so often compared to electrostatic speakers...the difference is the Audio Note's I've heard actually have balls when it comes to playing a pop/dance or rock albums.”

    Well, even though you say you “can’t speak to Magnapan”, you certainly seem to have no problem dismissing it from everyone elses consideration, eh?

    ”Sound aside there are other limiting factors when assembling a system. Space(size of room and positioning), money for amplification, some people want SETs or other low powered pure class A amps and therefore need sensitive easy to drive speakers, system cost...it costs way more to get high powered amps to sound as good as low powered high quality amps.”

    Again, you make it seem that your personal choices are immune from these considerations. If so, then perhaps you might be on to something. But methiks not. Sounds like another case of someone trying to justify their own purchases.

    ”I like elctro stats and I would probably like the BIGGER planars. If ML had fixed a few issues up they would be right near the top of my list. This is not unlike why I preferred the Sennheiser HD600 over the Stax Lambda pro...the HD600 provides 90% of the detail in the midband but is a 4fold improvement in the bass and dynamics department...I'll sacrifice 10% in one area for a 400% improvement at the extremes and in dynamics especially if it costs less - a lot less - to get it”

    From your earlier responses to Geoffcin, It’s pretty obvious you’ve never heard planars in their proper environment. But here you go dismissing then and comparing speakers to headphones again.

    Give it up RGA, you’re the biggest offender of your own complaints about owners going all out to defend their purchases.



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  25. #25
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    psonic -

    It is a small world! There was something about the Mirage that moved it behind the Energy and Kef but I couldn't figure out what it was. I think you have it. I actually preferred the smaller floorstander Mirage to the larger, likely because of less resonance? I wasb't crazy about the high end seemed to dispersed for my liking. I loved the VA's, but they were out of my price range. At Overtures, this is the deal I had: C-5's with center (can't remember which one) with 10.2 sub and take 2.2 rears for $1600. Didn't get a price at WWS. Check the Axiom board, I think there are 3 people that will let you come by to here the Axioms. I have been considering the Axiom M60's as well. Not crazy about going to a stranger's house to hear them though. What amp are you using? I have a Denon AVR 1082 (3802 clone). I would hate to unhook it and bring it anywhere. WWS has a speaker return for 100% store credit for up to 1 year to upgrade speakers, in case you don't know.

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