how do you rate these floorstanders? this is my demo list...

[psonic]

I have been auditioning floorstanders under $1000. I am in the Philadelphia area and open to driving around a bit and auditioning others you may recommend, only new floorstanders though. This is what I have listened to at length so far in no particular order just to get your candid impressions and see how they compare with mine...


boston acoustics VR2 http://www.bostonacoustics.com/hs_pr...7&CategoryID=2

energy C-5 http://www.energyloudspeakers.com/co...kers1_c-5.html

b&w 603 http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...l%20DM603%20S3

kef Q5 http://www.kef.com/products/qseries/qseries5.html

paradigm monitor 9 http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Site...nitorSpecs.htm

magnepan MMG http://www.magnepan.com/

[markw]

They are all fine, well built speakers from reputable companies who stand behind what they sell. What matters most is YOUR impression of them. You'll be the one living with them, not us.

FWIW, I've got maggies myself.

[JSE]

What Mark said. Except I own Bostons.

JSE

[TinHere]

See if you can get an audition of Rocket 550's. Check at http://www.audioenvy.com/ to see if anyone in your area has them or post a request at the AV123.com forum if nobody nearby is listed.

Info about 550's at:

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...rs&product=3.1

Happy hunting.

[Pat D]

I believe you could get a pair of Paradigm Studio 60s under $1000, which I think are even better than Monitor 9s. Anyway, you have an excellent list and it is your taste that is important.

[RGA]

Pretty much agree with the others...but since you asked I would take all the speakers over the Paradigm Monitor 9 though I have not heard the Magnepan(which I should imagine will have an entirely distinct sound). Planars and stats have certain advantages and disadvantages but I prefer music to have a more meat on the bones presentation than that with which I have heard from planars. But they have supporters.

The Energy C5 and 603S3 I like because if home theater is your bag they both front nice home theater but also sound musically solid. You do have to watch out for the treble response in both lines and the 603S3 has a bigger warmer sound than the punchy but thinner sounding Energy. I only heard the standmount Kef and it was an entertaining speaker - might sound a bit too polite for me...but the floorstander is bigger so - you'd be best to judge.

DO try and listen in the same room with the same gear wher possible.

I would also try and find the Audio Note Absolute Zero Two as it's in your price range and is also a floorstander. It's supposed to be very good and is very tube amp or low power amp friendly should you ever want to try tubes. The AN-K is a standmount version that I preferred over the standmounts from all the companies you list so who knows the floorstander may be as well. http://www.hifi.com.sg/products/spea.../az-series.htm

3 different reviews from one review site...

"Of all the components in the system, the AZ-Two speakers were the most enjoyable. Sonically, the Twos recalled the other horn speakers we’ve reviewed, the Loth-X Ion 4s. Both speakers produce a warm, coherent, and robust sound. However, the Twos have greater top end extension. I briefly considered keeping them as high-sensitivity backup speakers, but my experiment with the Anthem convinced me that the AZ-Twos and P Zero monoblocks sounded best when used together. (One thing: Audio Note must find something to protect the tweeters better than the salsa cups from El Pollo Loco that I used!) The Audio Note Zero System is one of the most satisfyingly musical performers I have heard in my home. The sound is decidedly non-audiophile. I discovered no new audio treats on my CDs. Instead, I found myself easing into the music and following musical lines and performances. The Zero System may not be much to look at, but its musical involvement is much greater than the sum of its parts."

"The 24/96 DAC-Zero processor and CD-Drive are next in the chain. The DAC also utilizes a 6111WA tube in the output stage. The P Zero monoblock amps are small and light enough to carry with one hand. Each produces eight watts via two ECL882 (6BM8) tubes run in class AB2. Those eight watts power Audio Note’s AZ-Two speakers. The AZ-Twos are two-way, rear-horn-loaded designs. Each speaker features a soft dome tweeter and an eight-inch paper-coned woofer. The woofer sports a serious foam surround. However, because of their 93 dB sensitivity, the AZ-Twos don’t have to flex too much muscle to produce hefty levels of sound.

And what a lovely sound the system makes! I can sum up the Zero System’s sound with four letters: Q-U-A-D. The system was smooth, coherent, musical, and easy to listen to, reminicent of our esteemed A.D. Banerjee’s E.A.R./Quad system. Music sounded organic and vibrant. No region in the frequency range was too agressive."

"This extraordinary system inserts few “errors” into the reproduction of music. You get a full snapshot of the musical event. For the cost of some single components, you get a full impression of music, from the color of the sound to the rhythm of the beat and the emotion of the message. Highly, highly recommended."
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...ionotezero.htm

[brigrizzme]

Ears are like eyes.
They're all different.
Trust your own.

[psonic]

Geetings all,

I am auditioning and using my own ears, and would not buy anything based on an online review or recommend. I have a very good ear for good speakers now, as I have listened to a lot of reference level expensive gear over the last year, so I am not hear for advice, as my mind is already made up unless something better comes along I have not heard yet. What I really want is your impressions of any of these, just to see if you saw the same strengths and weaknesses as I or if there is something else out there worth hearing.

I only have a minute right now so I'll try to respond...

RGA, the Kef Q5 is very nice and musical and with more bass compared to the C5. They are now my top 2, (even had them side by side!) and I am in love with the Kef's sound for just a little more money, fwiw Q5 is nicer looking and bi-wirable also. Comparing all I heard the C5 is just a little laid back, although very refined and neutral, with the Q5 being more lively although not boxy or boomy, yes its internally braced. There is a Audio Note dealer within 30min so I will call them about an audition. The 603 did not really move me, perhaps because it reminded me of my boston cr9 (without the boominess I have) very much.

Pat D, the studio 60s are priced around double some of these models.

Thanks

[RGA]

Well you are on the right track listening obviously to much higher end speakers and it appears you have set a budget and are looking to their lower end models ot see how they fare.

Look all of these speaker makers are reputable and can back their stuff up. The only reaso I added the Audio Note to the list is because they have a distinctly different approach to speaker making and will undoubtedly have a very different sound than some of the others. After a while when you consistantly hear the same KIND of speaker something else is either going to sound a bit off or incredibly right. The trick is determining if the different sound is correct. When I first heard the Martin Logan electrostats I felt they were the best speakers that could possibly be made...so transparent so detailed it was incredible. After several listens over time that advantage had been dispelled by the lack of integration of bass and a rather artificial feel sensed on more dynamic music...I still love the elctrostat sound but they're far from the perfection I heard on first listen.

I would suggest before you go to the Audio Note dealer to do research on some of their other speakers that may fall into your budget and also find out what else they carry. There are many terrific lesser advertised speakers that may have models in your price range. No one location carries everything and heck there are probably 30 speakers that are not sold in Vancouver BC that I would like to hear - such as Von Shweikert, Harbeth, ATC, etc.

My personal preference has led me away from speakers using metal tweeters though there are exceptions from JM Labs and B&W's Nautilus lines - but to my ear they become a bit harsh on longer listening with lower levels. You may not have the issue but you asked for strengths and weaknesses so this is a generalization - rather overly sweeping - of what I've heard over the years. I really feel a lot of speakers are being made to produce the pyrotechnics of home theater and not the organic presentation of music. It's almost a push to stress or highlight the midbass(creating a hum) and highlight and stress the treble...the pluck of a guitar is overly pronounced and totally made the Paradigm Monitor 5 unlistenable on guitar work from Jesse Cook.

Just some musings.

[phillyguy]

I have been following this thread, waiting to see what you have narrowed your choices to. Especially since I am from the suburbs of Philly. I have listening to the same speakers as you and I have come to the same conclusion! For me a close third, was Mirage. Try checking out Tweeter, if you care for another choice. What placed them further down was the omnipolar design, I wasn't sure if I really cared for it. Did you list to the Sapphire line @ Tweeter? They sound really bright next to the Mirage, but that may be due to the Mirage being omnipolar. You may have already known this but you can listen to the KEF's and Energy side by side at World Wide Stereo in Ardmore. You may want to try to audition some Missions also, if you can find them. I have an older pair that I love, but haven't been able to find them around Philly yet. If you decide on Energy, check out Overtures in Delaware. They offered me a great deal on the C5's in a 5.1 system. Good luck, and let us know what you end up chossing.

[kexodusc]

The Paradigm Monitor, Energy Cons, and B&W 603's all sound better in smaller, bookshelf versions in my opinion. If I had to rate the ones I've heard from your list it'd be as follows:
1) Magnepan MMG
2) Paradigm Monitor 9's AND Boston Acoustic VR2's (a virtual tie, maybe slight edge to Paradigm on account of brighter sound for classical music, Boston's sound a bit warmer, preference thing)
3) Energy C-5's
4) B&W 603's

I have no idea how the kef Q5's sound, never heard them before.
I've owned the Energy's before, they served me very well, my best friend swears by the 603's.
You've got a very good list here.

[Feanor]

That is, the B&W, Energy, and Paradigms.

As RGA guesses, the Magneplanar sound is distinctive. I would say an exceptional soundstage and transparency, with a "musicians in the room" sound that the other's don't have. That said, if you're a rock fan they might not have the "sock" that you crave if used by themselves.

I use my MMGs with subwoofer, (PSP Subsonic 6), crossed over at 80Hz. That way I give up a little bass precision but gain more dynamic range and loudness with orchestral crecendos -- and rock as often as I listen to it.

[RGA]

That is, the B&W, Energy, and Paradigms.

As RGA guesses, the Magneplanar sound is distinctive. I would say an exceptional soundstage and transparency, with a "musicians in the room" sound that the other's don't have. That said, if you're a rock fan they might not have the "sock" that you crave if used by themselves.

I use my MMGs with subwoofer, (PSP Subsonic 6), crossed over at 80Hz. That way I give up a little bass precision but gain more dynamic range and loudness with orchestral crecendos -- and rock as often as I listen to it.

Feaner, Just so you know Magnepan does not have the corner of the market on soundstage and transparency or the musicians in the room...nor is this an advantage inherent to planars and stats OVER boxed spekaers...though genrally speaking a planar or electrostat have an advantage over MOST boxed speakers in certain regards.

I mention this because many people and has been mentioned in reviews left Quad electrostats to buy Audio Note which are in fact boxed designs. Audio Note's boxes happen to be significantly different than most however which may make them an exception to the rule.

[markw]

Simply put, while some monkey coffins may come somewhat close to planars, planars have a distinct sound unlike ANY box speaker. I think it could be called openness, spaciousness, or air. You either love it or hate it. I started out with MMG's and shortly afterwards wanted more, more and more. Traded up to the 1.6's and haven't looked back since.

I do have box speakers, but there are some things they simply cannot do. That's why planars sell.

[manek]

Frankly I did not like the Maggies. Compared to Cadence hybrid electrostats they are nothing. Sorry to say that but its just my opinion. There are many boxed designs which take the pants off many full planar speakers like dynaudio, candece, jamo D870, JM-focal, sonus-farber. You can get open and airy sound from the mentioned speakers and they are very good at it. You would'nt believe that you are hearing boxes.

Psonic you should hear the dynes, cadence, jamo D870, Jamo d590, Sonus farber grand. Trust me you will forget the planars. The higher end B&W's are also very very good.

You also need to figure out how the speakers will sound in your home so try and get a home audition if possible.

[RGA]

Simply put, while some monkey coffins may come somewhat close to planars, planars have a distinct sound unlike ANY box speaker. I think it could be called openness, spaciousness, or air. You either love it or hate it. I started out with MMG's and shortly afterwards wanted more, more and more. Traded up to the 1.6's and haven't looked back since.

I do have box speakers, but there are some things they simply cannot do. That's why planars sell.

The point of many boxed speakers is not to sound like a panel...that would imply that panels are accurate which of course aren't. The typical verbiage of openness and air is used due to visual cues because their is openness and air around the speaker. And the reverse argument is the sound is hollow, shallow and without support. Boxed instruments have a box...piano, cello, guitar violin sound rich and warm the way they're supposed to through good boxed speakers.

I'm also puzzled by your last statement...Planars sell? They're poor sellers compared to boxed designs...Magnepan is basically the only planar that has managed to stay alive in a big way and they're a damn small speaker maker compared to others in their price range.

BTW, I'm not attacking planars and Stats...I've heard many and some depending on the price would get top marks from me...but my requirement is that they play all music well for the given genre. The Aerius i at 3k Cdn had some supurb attributes but fell down the list outside of soft music.

And American Cars are atrocious so I would probably take a Hyundai over a Lincoln...especially if we're going by Lemon Aid's break down guide where Lincoln is one of the great expensive albatrosses around the owner's neck.

[Geoffcin]

The point of many boxed speakers is not to sound like a panel...that would imply that panels are accurate which of course aren't. The typical verbiage of openness and air is used due to visual cues because their is openness and air around the speaker. And the reverse argument is the sound is hollow, shallow and without support. Boxed instruments have a box...piano, cello, guitar violin sound rich and warm the way they're supposed to through good boxed speakers.

I'm also puzzled by your last statement...Planars sell? They're poor sellers compared to boxed designs...Magnepan is basically the only planar that has managed to stay alive in a big way and they're a damn small speaker maker compared to others in their price range.

BTW, I'm not attacking planars and Stats...I've heard many and some depending on the price would get top marks from me...but my requirement is that they play all music well for the given genre. The Aerius i at 3k Cdn had some supurb attributes but fell down the list outside of soft music.

And American Cars are atrocious so I would probably take a Hyundai over a Lincoln...especially if we're going by Lemon Aid's break down guide where Lincoln is one of the great expensive albatrosses around the owner's neck.

Talk about a "colored" response.

You've obviously made up your mind about speakers, and cars for that matter.

I've heard many speakers in my time, even the huge and incredible Wilson series. I've yet to hear one produce the quality of the "boxed" sound of a grand piano, cello, or acoustic guitar like a planar. I've even had professional musicians come over and swear that someone was PLAYING guitar in the room when it was a recording.

The problem with boxed speakers is just that, they are hollow boxes. The good manufactures try as hard as they can to damp them so they don't ring, and carefully shape their front surfaces, and interiors so there's no unwanted diffraction. There are some good ones, and some have drivers that are to die for, but they are all hampered by the "box"

"Air" is not just something that is around the speakers. "Air" is a verb in this context, and some speakers have it and others don't.

Yes, there aren't many planars out there for sale. Selling something that is difficult to make, and demanding a premium for it can be bad for business. But then there's not many Rolls Royce's either. Did you know that RR was nearly out of business? It seems that their dedication to producing uncompromised quality nearly doomed them. It's a good thing that BMW came to their rescue or it would have been another auto company gone bust.

[Feanor]

Feaner, Just so you know Magnepan does not have the corner of the market on soundstage and transparency or the musicians in the room...

Point is, though, that MMGs have the qualities mentioned, and are really the only speakers that do for US$550, or under $1000 for that matter.

[RGA]

Yes but the MMG also lacks bass, dynamics top end extension, volume level, ease of driveability, ease of positioning all for a bit more delicacy in the mnidband. To me that would be a lot to trade for a novelty. Others won't feel that way so that's fine it's a preference.

Note this is not my own listening this is reviewers and various owner's comments and a dealer here...who refused to pick up the line.

I have heard some expensive Stats - if I listened to small ensemble works and strings Stats win...full orchestra and rock or dance and they lose. And obviously many people have 10k and have listened to Magnepan ML and Quad and actually went with something of the non planar design for a reason...preference.

[Feanor]

[QUOTE=RGA]Yes but the MMG also lacks bass, dynamics top end extension, volume level, ease of driveability, ease of positioning all for a bit more delicacy in the mnidband. To me that would be a lot to trade for a novelty. Others won't feel that way so that's fine it's a preference.... /QUOTE]

Planar users don't love them for the sake of novelty, but because they prefer them, and they prefer them because, in general, they do things others don't do.

Maybe your silver-lined Audio Notes do some of the same things -- for four times price! I'll give up what Audio Notes do better for that price differential.

OK, the choice between Cdn$2600 MG 1.6 and the low-end Audio Notes might be more difficult for me. But I have no problem choosing the MMGs over our poster's listed speakers.

[Geoffcin]

That is, the B&W, Energy, and Paradigms.

As RGA guesses, the Magneplanar sound is distinctive. I would say an exceptional soundstage and transparency, with a "musicians in the room" sound that the other's don't have. That said, if you're a rock fan they might not have the "sock" that you crave if used by themselves.

I use my MMGs with subwoofer, (PSP Subsonic 6), crossed over at 80Hz. That way I give up a little bass precision but gain more dynamic range and loudness with orchestral crecendos -- and rock as often as I listen to it.

Feanors got the Maggies done right.

Back in the days before subs were common, people had to live with the fact that modest sided planars don't have extended bass response. But today nearly everyone with a HT setup has a subwoofer. Now with the proper bass management you can have the best of both worlds, as even a modest sub can fill the bottom 50hz or so.

I do disagree with people who would say that maggies have a distinctive sound. My view is that maggies have an incredible LACK of distinctive sound. What you give them is what you hear, and on good recordings it can seem like there's musicians in the room with you, NOT speakers!

[Woochifer]

I have been auditioning floorstanders under $1000. I am in the Philadelphia area and open to driving around a bit and auditioning others you may recommend, only new floorstanders though. This is what I have listened to at length so far in no particular order just to get your candid impressions and see how they compare with mine...


boston acoustics VR2 http://www.bostonacoustics.com/hs_pr...7&CategoryID=2

energy C-5 http://www.energyloudspeakers.com/co...kers1_c-5.html

b&w 603 http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...l%20DM603%20S3

kef Q5 http://www.kef.com/products/qseries/qseries5.html

paradigm monitor 9 http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Site...nitorSpecs.htm

magnepan MMG http://www.magnepan.com/

Back to the original topic ...

You should also add Klipsch's RF-25 and RF-35, and the Definitive Technology BP series towers to the list as well. Different sound from the others on your list and not on my preferred short list, but you might like them. Also, look at PSB's Image series.

I would add, as mentioned by others, that you should definitely also audition the standmounted versions of those speakers that you listed. The majority of the sub-$1,000 floorstanders that I've heard have audible box resonance, and diminished imaging and tonal balance compared to the standmounted models. The only deficiency that I found with the standmounts is the bass extension, but the standmounts are generally more balanced in the lows and you can remedy any bass deficiencies with a subwoofer.

Another advantage of going with standmounts is that you got a whole slew of new options open to you like Paradigm's Studio series or Dynaudio's Audience line. And I can tell you from my recent listening with the new Studio 20 v.3, you definitely don't want to leave that off your list of models to consider.