I tend to agree with alot of what you're saying here RGA...My main speakers were built with quality Vifa woofers, I usually don't use a sub in my 2-channel system because they are "full range" so to speak and though I have Paradigm sub in my room I do turn on from time to time because there are musical benefits to using a sub for purely musical purposes.
It does add greater complexity to setup, no question, but when you get there, it's great.

I think I've mentioned before I have some A/N fanboy relatives...My uncle routinely uses a nice home-brewed sub to fill out the bottom octave even with his AN E's...He cuts the sub off at 40 Hz, where even the E's get a little weak relative their performance at other frequencies...the sound is good, the response is flat, but in his words, the natural musical "impact" is lost when you use the speakers full range...That's the feeling you get in the seat of your pants. That's what a sub should be for IMO. Adding that power to the bottom octave. Every woofer starts to get strained the lower you go...

Quote Originally Posted by RGA
My point was not really to attack subs - I am not partial to the sound of sub/satelite systems I have no problem with subs for home theater where your accuracy cue for a car bomb exploding really has no reference. I can't say for sure what a T-Rex stomping on car really sounds like - I can say that a cello should sound like one cohesive instrument because i know what a cello should sound like but a T-Rex or doctored multi channel effects I can't say. There is no reference point for such things. So, I don't bother with that I bother with the cello, piano, organ and even a synthezier which both certainly go to 20hz and below.
For all the talk you do about "listening", recreating "life-like music" instead of just "Hi-Fi", I really expected more from you. Have you heard a cello? Do yo play Cello? I do...I doubt you'll find any cello anywhere that extends below 58 Hz...unless it's sadly out of tune...I think even grand piano's and Pipe Organs rarely drop below 30 Hz...and quite honestly there would be few passages that would employ notes that low very often. Probably low to mid 40's (Hz) would account for 99% of a piano or organs real world usuage. Kind of diminishes the importance of "full range" speakers.

Now I have to question, exactly what ARE you listening too???? Are you sure you know?