Help! 20hz to 20khz least amount of $$$

[KRiTiKaL]

Most likely will power with 45wpc(have not picked a system)

Have probably $2000, I listen to R&B, Jazz, Metal, Rap, Live music. Just a system that reproduces the dynamic range at a not overly-loud level. I like my sound about 90decibels. Room is open and ceiling is 9feet high. I sit about 10 feet average from front. This will be used for a HT later on.

I am interested in the ascends. The chart shows roll off about 10khz tho.

[KRiTiKaL]

think 45wpc is enough volume?

Let me clarify my music preference: #1.Slayer/Pantera style Metal #2.Norah Jones/Sarah Brightman voice highs #3.Drum&Bass/Rap bass dependent. In order pretty much matter of importance.

With both products having a 30+ day guarantee, I might try ascend with a SVS.

Any advantages of tube vs box, from actual owners? I am looking at the 39 inch tube.

Thanks much

[RGA]

Here is a rule of thumb - if you can hear male vocals out of your sub you have bad bass period end of discussion - and I have heard awefully expensive ones do that. hen people will talk about where they're crossed over - but IMO this should not even be an option.

The problem with most full range speakers is that when you find a good spot for the midrange and treble you might get boomy bass. I think the main reason Audio Note is able to succeed at getting tremendous bass from relatively small cabinets and one 8inch driver is that they take into account the rear and side walls as well as the floor bounce and will get very similar results from room to room - presuming your room has 2 corners in it. Most do. But again Sir Terrance notes that it's not cheap.

Now i have heard some very deep(or 35hz very powerful and very loud) subs from Paradigm which whenever I build my home theater(very low priority for me) I would be extremely happy with and only cost about $800.00Cdn. Musically It wouldn't cut it for me.

I had that option of going with a $1k sub and my Standmounts which were good to 36hz. Or Spend that $1k and get a bigger standmount which is good 25hz. There was no doubt that the latter option was and is the better option musically. Having bass come from a seeming front source point source is indiscribably better in my view. Even big floorstanders with similar bass depth sound as though the bass is thudding from the floorboards. Imaine 25hz coming from ~2.5feet off the ground - projecting up where the stage is. Non Directional subs my ass.

[KRiTiKaL]

Just tried a search for this and I remember reading about it some where. What is a good male voice(500hz < ?) to do a test?

Audio Note seems very pricey, but as was stated "its not cheap". I believe that to a point but when(not in your case) does the cash flow stop on speakers? I mean above $10k for a pair of speakers. I am a carpenter and making a nice cabinet is not hard for even the novice. So basically it is all the components you are buying? I read in another post $1million for some speakers. KRIKEY! Its prob me though because I am tight with money. I love good sounds no matter.

[RGA]

Just tried a search for this and I remember reading about it some where. What is a good male voice(500hz < ?) to do a test?

Audio Note seems very pricey, but as was stated "its not cheap". I believe that to a point but when(not in your case) does the cash flow stop on speakers? I mean above $10k for a pair of speakers. I am a carpenter and making a nice cabinet is not hard for even the novice. So basically it is all the components you are buying? I read in another post $1million for some speakers. KRIKEY! Its prob me though because I am tight with money. I love good sounds no matter.

You don't have to spend this much money and I hope my post was not sounding too ludditic(is that a word ). Money does not equal quality though you need some and Audio Note is not really expensive compared to most. Sure they make the ridiculous and IMO indefensibly priced $99,000 Speaker that is the exact same box as their $4,000.00 model. So there is no justification for the extra $95,000.00 no matter how much silver is being used. - if the whole damn box was filled with solid top of the line silver it still probably wouldn't come near 100K. But then there is no more than $5.00 worth of paint in a Picaso either. The market bares it because that particular market has heard the competition at that kind of price range and Audio Note does sell them. That 1 million dollar Karma speaker includes the room. Basiclaly they are building you a room onto your house which is specifically designed acoustically for those speakers (well so say they anyway)

My point was not really to attack subs - I am not partial to the sound of sub/satelite systems I have no problem with subs for home theater where your accuracy cue for a car bomb exploding really has no reference. I can't say for sure what a T-Rex stomping on car really sounds like - I can say that a cello should sound like one cohesive instrument because i know what a cello should sound like but a T-Rex or doctored multi channel effects I can't say. There is no reference point for such things. So, I don't bother with that I bother with the cello, piano, organ and even a synthezier which both certainly go to 20hz and below.

Everytime you add a step to the chain you create problems and those problems need corrections and those corrections cause other problems. A three way which is what a system using a Subwoofer becomes, is another step back which needs some sort of error correction device to fix the problems. Some people think that current receivers add on decvices and subwoofers work - I don't - no big deal go and listen to some such set-ups versus the AN J or E. You can believe the technological hype or you can go and listen to the J and E versus Say a $2,000 Energy Veritas, B&W, paradigm, PSB, standmount and ANY subwoofer you wish.

As PatD said most content doesn't really go much beyond 15Khz and most people can't differentiate bass below 40hz - this was why up until not that long ago the frequency range cosidered FULL range was 40hz-15khz. I have seen $199.00Cdn Sony speakers rated 20hz-20khz - means nothing. I have seen subs at pretty high prices that only hit 40hz - they simply play 40hz louder. I don't get the appeal of that. While watching a DVD demo a person put his cup on a table and the thud made me jump 2 feet. Sure it is "COOL" but that is atrocious sound because last time I checked when someone put a cup on a table my house didn't shake. But yes it was cool for a one off demo. Turn the sub volume down and well you realize you don;t need a subwoofer anymore. My Wharfedales went just as deep and play deafeningly loud so why on earth would i want to have the wharfedale's cut the lows for ONE subwoofer to now take over the duty of the woofers in my Wharfedale. I tried it to disasterous effects. I didn't need to worry about buying several devices to set-it up or replace my receiver with one that supposedly does it for you. I just needed two good speakers for 2 channel music. Unfortunately, Wharfedale went under in the early 1990s and have been bought and sold twice since then and are making more budget speakers.

I am fully aware I'm in the minority on this predominantly A/V forum when it comes to sub integration. But always note the small words like Almost integrates or very closely integrates and otherbsubtle weasal words people use. All that is well and good and for most people - fine but almost counts in horseshoes- almost integrating a piano or cello isn't enough. When a speaker like the J, which is only expensive because a smaller company is making them, can offer better bass than most all 1kCdn subs - all the ones I've heard even up to 2kCdn and do it from one 8 inch woofer. Why?

By the way if you're a handy sort of person you can build Audio Note speakers - Audio Note is pretty open about what they do - they hide nothing - they tell you the costs of all the materials and drivers and allow people to build a lot of their products. You can purchase a Kit E for quite cheap and basically glue the thing together yourself. and will probably save you 70% retail. Here is a review from a more two channel dedicated forum of a fellow I met at my dealer who had them built for him http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...70755&review=1

There is also a dedicated Audio Note kits forum at audioasylum.com -- you can;t beat it because you can listen to the Audio Note E speakers at a dealership to see if you like them or not and if you do you can save money by ordering the Kit and taylor the quality to fit your budget. Audio Note is trying to work out special deals with dealers to have the prices significanlty dropped. Being made in Europe is very costly. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/au...ekits/bbs.html

Note I am not suggesting you buy - no matter how good a magazine review is or some fanboy like me touts them you need to LISTEN to as much gear as you possibly can humanly fit into your schedule.

The E was recently given the Best Buy speaker award in the August issue of Hi-Fi CHoice and this review is of the older E in a particle board box(The new version they like better for value even though the price went up considerably) - definitely you want Ply Wood. No speaker is perfect of course and the new E the reviewer, Paul Messenger, had a few issues with - but he did keep the speaker. In fact they kept the 1992 version as well.
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=475

This review of the E/D was up against speakers that ALL cost at least double the E's list at the time. The person owns the other designs which are quite formidable and very popular in their own rights. But it gives you an idea how well the E did considering the price. http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/s..._17-07-2k1.htm

Some other experienced Audiophile/reviewers
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...45133&review=1
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...74993&review=1
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...04884&review=1
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...11315&review=1
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...24418&review=1

I told you I was a fanboy and unashamedly so. I recommend what I would BUY for myself or recommend to my friends. And that is very few products. When I come back from work overseas I will build or buy used and AN E.

And yes - it's what's inside that counts. Good luck with whatever you choose in the end.

[kexodusc]

I tend to agree with alot of what you're saying here RGA...My main speakers were built with quality Vifa woofers, I usually don't use a sub in my 2-channel system because they are "full range" so to speak and though I have Paradigm sub in my room I do turn on from time to time because there are musical benefits to using a sub for purely musical purposes.
It does add greater complexity to setup, no question, but when you get there, it's great.

I think I've mentioned before I have some A/N fanboy relatives...My uncle routinely uses a nice home-brewed sub to fill out the bottom octave even with his AN E's...He cuts the sub off at 40 Hz, where even the E's get a little weak relative their performance at other frequencies...the sound is good, the response is flat, but in his words, the natural musical "impact" is lost when you use the speakers full range...That's the feeling you get in the seat of your pants. That's what a sub should be for IMO. Adding that power to the bottom octave. Every woofer starts to get strained the lower you go...

My point was not really to attack subs - I am not partial to the sound of sub/satelite systems I have no problem with subs for home theater where your accuracy cue for a car bomb exploding really has no reference. I can't say for sure what a T-Rex stomping on car really sounds like - I can say that a cello should sound like one cohesive instrument because i know what a cello should sound like but a T-Rex or doctored multi channel effects I can't say. There is no reference point for such things. So, I don't bother with that I bother with the cello, piano, organ and even a synthezier which both certainly go to 20hz and below.

For all the talk you do about "listening", recreating "life-like music" instead of just "Hi-Fi", I really expected more from you. Have you heard a cello? Do yo play Cello? I do...I doubt you'll find any cello anywhere that extends below 58 Hz...unless it's sadly out of tune...I think even grand piano's and Pipe Organs rarely drop below 30 Hz...and quite honestly there would be few passages that would employ notes that low very often. Probably low to mid 40's (Hz) would account for 99% of a piano or organs real world usuage. Kind of diminishes the importance of "full range" speakers.

Now I have to question, exactly what ARE you listening too???? Are you sure you know?

[drseid]

Based on your $2000 upper limit (I am hoping this is for the speakers alone, otherwise ignore this post), I would go one of two directions...

For a floorstander recommendation, I would recommend auditioning the Legacy Audio Signature III. Brand new, these speakers are way out of your price range, but on Audiogon, a used pair will most likely sell for just about $2000. These can do 20HZ with good authority, and they are perfect for medium to semi-large rooms. Very good quality drivers are used from Eton, among others. The Sigs have excellent dynamics, and they have a very pleasant midrange. The speakers are pretty darn good looking too in my opinion (your tastes may vary, of course).

Another way to go if the sub/sat route is more your cup of tea, is to pair some high quality monitors like the Tyler Acoustics Taylo Monitors, with a quality sub. The Taylos offer tremendous bang for the buck, utilizing a SEAS Excel series mid-bass driver (W18E) and the Scanspeak Revelator Tweeter (9900) in each enclosure. These go for $1000-$1200 a pair used on Audiogon including the high quality matching Tyler Model 1 stands.

You could then pair them to a top quality musical subwoofer like the ACI Titan (formerly called the Titan II). Brand new, the Titan goes for about $1200 direct from ACI, and it is hard to find one used, but if you can find one, the Titan/Titan II is very good quality and it holds it's value well.

A used pair of Taylos, coupled with a used Titan II/Titan II LE will again set you back pretty much your entire budget, but the combo is a *very* good one that should cover you nicely for the entire frequency range (good bass, as it has already been said does not come cheap). Also, I should mention that the Titan II integrates very well with the Taylos (I, and others have done it with excellent success). Just for reference, Tyler Acoustics is not well known (and only mail order), so there is some risk here (no auditioning of the speakers unless you can find an owner nearby), but as an owner of both the Taylos and Linbrooks (their larger brothers), I, at least, can say that I am glad I took the risk.

The sub/sat option may be the better way to go if you ever want to look at multi-channel music, or HT. If you are looking for 2 channel only (with no future plans for multi-channel), then the used Signature IIIs may be just what you are looking for.

Either way, these options may be worth a look...

Good luck,

---Dave

[46minaudio]

I am fully aware I'm in the minority on this predominantly A/V forum when it comes to sub integration. But always note the small words like Almost integrates or very closely integrates and otherbsubtle weasal words people use. All that is well and good and for most people - fine but almost counts in horseshoes- almost integrating a piano or cello isn't enough. When a speaker like the J, which is only expensive because a smaller company is making them, can offer better bass than most all 1kCdn subs - all the ones I've heard even up to 2kCdn and do it from one 8 inch woofer. Why?

RGA have you measured your ANs in your room.If so do they integrate perfect, or are they close"as in horseshoes".

Here is a review from a more two channel dedicated forum of a fellow I met at my dealer who had them built for him http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...70755&review=1

I can't stress this enough - DO NOT GO BY REVIEWS

The E was recently given the Best Buy speaker award in the August issue of Hi-Fi CHoice and this review is of the older E in a particle board box(The new version they like better for value even though the price went up considerably)

I can't stress this enough - DO NOT GO BY REVIEWS

This review of the E/D was up against speakers that ALL cost at least double the E's list at the time. The person owns the other designs which are quite formidable and very popular in their own rights. But it gives you an idea how well the E did considering the price. http://www.audionote.co.uk/reviews/s..._17-07-2k1.htm

I can't stress this enough - DO NOT GO BY REVIEWS

Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,Broken Record,

[KRiTiKaL]

This is great, other than the personal remarks. I am getting some good tips and advice. I am only basing my question on 20hz to 20khz to point out the basic audible range. I am sure that missing 15 to 20hz or 5khz from the audible spectrum is not all that much. I am basically trying to get a close to perfect reproduction of whatever I am playing. I realize that the recording has pretty much the influence on your speakers. As for that, this is for well produced and recorded music and eventually movies. Thank you guys much so far.

I am going to look at the Magneplanars(sp?) and see what the deal with eletrostatic sound is about. I remember being in a high-end store in Eugene, OR when I seen something similar about 13 years ago.

[bargainseeker]

I am going to look at the Magneplanars(sp?) and see what the deal with eletrostatic sound is about.

While very nice sounding, Magneplanars are notoriously inefficient and low in impedance. You need a very high power amplifier capable of driving low impedance loads for these speakers. 45 watts per channel will not be nearly enough.

[Woochifer]

My point was not really to attack subs - I am not partial to the sound of sub/satelite systems I have no problem with subs for home theater where your accuracy cue for a car bomb exploding really has no reference. I can't say for sure what a T-Rex stomping on car really sounds like - I can say that a cello should sound like one cohesive instrument because i know what a cello should sound like but a T-Rex or doctored multi channel effects I can't say. There is no reference point for such things. So, I don't bother with that I bother with the cello, piano, organ and even a synthezier which both certainly go to 20hz and below.

Of course, you're attacking subs if you claim that they're only good for explosions and inadequate for music.

Everytime you add a step to the chain you create problems and those problems need corrections and those corrections cause other problems. A three way which is what a system using a Subwoofer becomes, is another step back which needs some sort of error correction device to fix the problems. Some people think that current receivers add on decvices and subwoofers work - I don't - no big deal go and listen to some such set-ups versus the AN J or E. You can believe the technological hype or you can go and listen to the J and E versus Say a $2,000 Energy Veritas, B&W, paradigm, PSB, standmount and ANY subwoofer you wish.

Those "errors" that you refer to are not caused by the subwoofer, they're caused by the ROOM. As you go below 200 Hz, the influence of the room effects increase as the wavelengths get longer. This affects all speakers as they go into the lower frequencies, and not just subwoofers. This is a point that you consistently ignore/fail to understand. What you refer to as ERROR correction is nothing more than correcting for normal room effects.

If you have actually try these speakers that you mention at home, have you actually taken the time to properly set it up and INTEGRATE IT in with your mains by using the proper crossover, phase, and (if available) equalization settings? An in-store demo is inadequate to judge the quality of a subwoofer because they are rarely setup with the optimal settings since those settings potentially change with different main speakers.

I am fully aware I'm in the minority on this predominantly A/V forum when it comes to sub integration. But always note the small words like Almost integrates or very closely integrates and otherbsubtle weasal words people use. All that is well and good and for most people - fine but almost counts in horseshoes- almost integrating a piano or cello isn't enough. When a speaker like the J, which is only expensive because a smaller company is making them, can offer better bass than most all 1kCdn subs - all the ones I've heard even up to 2kCdn and do it from one 8 inch woofer. Why?

Unless something PERFECTLY integrates together, then what you refer to as "othersubtle weasel words" are an accurate description. There's no such thing as a perfect speaker, so if you're using this "othersubtle weasel words" description as yet another backhanded putdown of all things non-AN, then you're taking your fanboy biases to pretty ridiculous heights since the AN would have to absolutely perfect. If it's not perfect, then you have to use one of your weasel words to describe those speakers.

Have no problem if someone wants to use a sub as a form of tone control where you jack up the response of a bass frequency. If that's what one wishes to do it is not much different than wanting to jack up the response at 4khz or 20khz.

If you read Kex's comments, he's not talking about subs as a form of tone control or jacking up the response. It's simply about reinforcing the lower octave where the speaker trails off.

Subwoofers are not recommended for Audio Note K,J or E speakers. Peter has bought the best subs currently available on the market trying to re-work whichever is best for his E. All were fruitlesss. He has been working on an 845Tube powereed subwoofer which will obviously have to dovetail down to 12hz and play significantly loud. The 845 tube is considered a low powered tube so if he ever gets the time it would be interesting.

ALL the "best subs currently available"? He must have made a LOT of money then if he can afford to do this, because there are a lot of them on the market. Rather than "reworking" them, why not set them up properly and try them out without modification?

I'm not saying there are speakers that don't have more bass volume or bass depth - not at all. But you answered your own quesiton. If so little music plays under 40hz(don't forget overtones) then why would anyone NEED a subwoofer for music listening with say a Studio 40 - I kow I sure as hell would want a sub for almost all standmounts I've come accross that claim 40hz.

Nobody NEEDS a subwoofer, but I went with a sub with my system because I wanted the best possible bass quality out of my system. Installing a subwoofer opened a world of possibilities. First, the placement flexibility allowed me to work around the acoustical issues in my room. The ideal placement for my Studio 40s for imaging quality and midrange coherency was along the middle of the front wall. This placement also creates one wave cancellation and two large peaks in the lower frequencies, which creates a nonlinear bass response even though my Studio 40s have measureable output down to 35 Hz. I know it's mostly room inuduced because the frequency response in the bass changes when I move the speakers. The subwoofer allows for far more linear bass response because the subwoofer can be placed in a more advantageous location, AND it allows for the use of ROOM correction devices like a parametric equalizer. If you've never heard a properly equalized subwoofer, then you're in no position whatsoever to denounce the merits of subwoofers the way that you have. The other point that you're ignoring is that taking the lowest bass notes out of the signal, the speaker as notably greater coherency in the MIDRANGE. Plenty of tube advocates and two-channel devotees have advocated subwoofers for years because having to power and drive the lower octaves has a detrimental effect on the other parts of the music. Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio highly recommends subwoofers with tube systems because in his opinion the peak demands from the low frequencies particularly detract from the midrange quality when using tubes.

[Woochifer]

Here is a rule of thumb - if you can hear male vocals out of your sub you have bad bass period end of discussion - and I have heard awefully expensive ones do that. hen people will talk about where they're crossed over - but IMO this should not even be an option.

Here's the reality: if you're hearing male vocals out of the sub, you either have it setup incorrectly or you bought something from Bose!

The crossover is one of the key points with integrating a subwoofer with the mains. If a subwoofer's reproducing male vocals, it's because that part of the frequency range is getting sent to the driver. Doesn't matter how good the subwoofer is, if it's in the signal and no crossover is used, the subwoofer will reproduce it. The typical frequency response of a decent subwoofer driver goes well above 500 Hz, and if you provide no crossover at the top end, it will playback everything to that point. If you don't want to hear male vocals, you set the crossover below that frequency.

The problem with most full range speakers is that when you find a good spot for the midrange and treble you might get boomy bass. I think the main reason Audio Note is able to succeed at getting tremendous bass from relatively small cabinets and one 8inch driver is that they take into account the rear and side walls as well as the floor bounce and will get very similar results from room to room - presuming your room has 2 corners in it. Most do. But again Sir Terrance notes that it's not cheap.

The factor that you're ignoring is that the corner reinforcement will vary depending on the distance to the listening position and the dimensions of the walls. Sure, those ANs can go low in-room with the right combination of corner reinforcement and relative distance, but the quality of the bass will vary widely by the room. It doesn't matter how good you think AN's design is, it's not immune from the laws of physics and formation of standing waves.

I had that option of going with a $1k sub and my Standmounts which were good to 36hz. Or Spend that $1k and get a bigger standmount which is good 25hz. There was no doubt that the latter option was and is the better option musically. Having bass come from a seeming front source point source is indiscribably better in my view. Even big floorstanders with similar bass depth sound as though the bass is thudding from the floorboards. Imaine 25hz coming from ~2.5feet off the ground - projecting up where the stage is. Non Directional subs my ass.

Going with a subwoofer allows you to optimize the positioning for the best quality bass within a given room. Subwoofers have a disadvantage in that the proper placement for tonal accuracy might also result in problems with the time domain coherency. Newer receivers and processors now integrate the delay timing into the bass management as well. Based on my experience with delay timing in the main and surround speaker channels, this can make a huge difference in making the overall sound more cohesive.

And when you're describing bass as nondirectional, how do you know that those sounds emanate from the 25 Hz range? Even a deep explosion from an action pic will typically include some sounds that go into the lower midrange. Based on your first comment, if you're not even using a crossover to cut off the directional frequencies above 80 Hz, then OF COURSE the subwoofer will sound directional! Plus, you need to account for room induced peaking and frequency cancellations in your setup and placement. If everything is done correctly, then the bass can be VERY well integrated with the mains and sound almost completely nondirectional. The newer bass management designs are now incorporating crossover frequencies of 40 and 60 Hz into their designs. Coupled with proper delay settings, placement, and equalization, the bass quality in that kind of setup can well exceed that from a full range speaker and cost a lot less.

[bargainseeker]

Most likely will power with 45wpc(have not picked a system)

Have probably $2000, I listen to R&B, Jazz, Metal, Rap, Live music. Just a system that reproduces the dynamic range at a not overly-loud level. I like my sound about 90decibels. Room is open and ceiling is 9feet high. I sit about 10 feet average from front. This will be used for a HT later on.

I am interested in the ascends. The chart shows roll off about 10khz tho.

It takes some practice to read these frequency response charts. The on-axis chart provided by Ascend Acoustics shows the CBM-170 speakers flat to 18KHz and down about 3dB at 20KHz. For independent measurements of the CBM-170s see the Soundstage measurements of the CBM-170. In particular, see Chart 2 for the frequency response within a +/- 15 degree listening window. If properly positioned and adjusted, the combination of the SVS PB10-ISD and Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s should give you 18Hz - 20KHz +/- 3dB. Please note: I do not recommend any other of the Ascend Acoustics speakers.

I am not sure if your $2000 budget is for speakers alone or for speakers + receiver/preamp/amp. If the $2000 is for speakers alone, you may want to consider upgrading the subwoofer and getting 5 (or 6 or 7) CBM-170s for a complete home theater system. Alternatively, you could get two even higher quality bookshelf monitor speakers with an upgraded subwoofer. At $2000, you are also in the low end of a pair of floor standing speakers that are capable of full range reproduction without a subwoofer.

45 watt per channel should be more than adequate for powering efficient speakers such as the CBM-170s for music listening under the conditions you specify. However, I am not so sure that it will be adequate for home theater use. Many movies have greater dynamic range than music. For this application, you may want to get more power per channel.

[Pat D]

Most likely will power with 45wpc(have not picked a system)

Have probably $2000, I listen to R&B, Jazz, Metal, Rap, Live music. Just a system that reproduces the dynamic range at a not overly-loud level. I like my sound about 90decibels. Room is open and ceiling is 9feet high. I sit about 10 feet average from front. This will be used for a HT later on.

I am interested in the ascends. The chart shows roll off about 10khz tho.

Almost any good speaker will go up to 20 kHz or above, and really, above 15 kHz is of very little importance. To get deep bass at a reasonable cost requires a subwoofer. So you could probably get a subwoofer from Hsu or SVS with useful bass to 20 Hz, a pair of bookshelf speakers or small towers, a receiver and a DVD player (they play CDs, too!) and stay within 2 grand.

You don't specify which Ascend Acoustics speaker you have in mind. Anyway, I looked up the review of the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 on Soundstage and it does go up to 20 kHz--no sign of a roll off there. Is there on some other model? It doesn't do too much below about 70 Hz, but should do well with a subwoofer as long as you don't want to play it too, too loud. Its sensitivity is measured as 89 dB by the NRC but its impedance in the upper bass looks to be about 4 ohms, so you would want a receiver that will drive 4 ohm speakers.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/a...ics_cbm170.htm

Somewhat less sensitive (87 dB) is the Energy Connoisseur C-3, which seems to have useful bass to about 40 Hz. It costs somewhat more, too, but you still should be able to fit it in a 2 grand system. I have heard it and it is quite nice.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_c3.htm

As for priorities, I think it is important to find main speakers you really like than to have deep bass. Listen to as many good speakers as is practical. They are what put out most of the sound. If the main speakers you like take up too much of the budget, you might have to compromise on getting good bass down to 20 Hz, or put it off until later.

Do you have any idea how loud 90 dBa really is? It's pretty loud. Get yourself a Radio Shack Sound Pressure Level Meter, Cat. No. 33-2050 (thats the preferred analog version) to see. It's also useful to keep your listening levels safe so as not to damage your hearing, and is also useful for setting up a subwoofer or a home theatre system.