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  1. #1
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    Question Denon 2803, speaker suggestion

    I have been a lurker for a couple of weeks, I finally joined. I have ordered a Denon 2803 7.1 which will be coming in a few days. I am wondering what to do to upgrade from my old Fisher speakers from the '70s (don't laugh !!). The Denon is replacing a Fisher Quadraphonic receiver I got in' 75 (don't laugh again !!). I was considering Bose Acousticmass until I heard most of you bash it. One thing about the Bose is that it doesn't take up much space and I don't have to redecorate my listening area. What could I get for under $500 that would be the best for music, especially pipe organ? Is that an impossiblity? Thanks for your advise and not laughing! :-)
    Last edited by RickG; 12-31-2004 at 03:23 PM. Reason: spelling

  2. #2
    a hell of an engineer
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    If you simply must buy a complete set of home theater speakers right now for $500 or less, then you may want to consider the offerings by Fluance. Given your interest in pipe organ music, however, I think you would be better served by buying a decent subwoofer now (such as the SVS PB10-ISD) and later adding some good bookshelf speakers two or three at a time (such as the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170).

    Since speakers make the greatest difference by far in the quality of sound you will hear, spending more than $500 for a receiver while spending less than $500 for 5 - 7 surround speakers plus a subwoofer is a totally skewed way to allocate your home theater budget. Instead I'd recommend that you spend 4 to 6 times your receiver budget for all of the speakers.

  3. #3
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickG
    I have been a lurker for a couple of weeks, I finally joined. I have ordered a Denon 2803 7.1 which will be coming in a few days. I am wondering what to do to upgrade from my old Fisher speakers from the '70s (don't laugh !!). The Denon is replacing a Fisher Quadraphonic receiver I got in' 75 (don't laugh again !!). I was considering Bose Acousticmass until I heard most of you bash it. One thing about the Bose is that it doesn't take up much space and I don't have to redecorate my listening area. What could I get for under $500 that would be the best for music, especially pipe organ? Is that an impossiblity? Thanks for your advise and not laughing! :-)
    The Bose can't do pipe organ - that subwoofer isn't a subwoofer and if you don't mind missing a couple of octaves in the midrange??? Read this article and warn everyone you know about Bose http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

    Anyway - I'm sorry to say that you can't do true Pipe Organ music on that budget - and chances are the Denon can't truly attain it without the aid of a powered subwoofer with most spekaers at the required SPL. High sensitive speakers would be desirable and most of those don't provide the ~18hz required. Nevertheless you can buy tuneful speakers which will provide the impression well - but I've heard none at this price that can do it and also resemble music.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Anyway - I'm sorry to say that you can't do true Pipe Organ music on that budget
    Can't is such a strong word...but $500 is barely enough for a decent sub or main speakers, let alone both. Forget about surrounds for now, would be my advice. Take your system in steps, if you're truely looking for a good audio system. And don't get in a huge hurry. You've had the same gear since the 70's, no sense in rushing out and buying something because it seems like a good deal. I would start looking for a decent pair of mains with as good a low end as possible. You'll probably want to look at bookshelves, since you're on a budget. They can be moved to surrounds later on if you want. You'll need a sub to fill out the lower octive, but decent subs are pretty expensive, so you'll pretty much have to up your budget if you want to start out with a sub and mains.
    Athena speakers at Best Buy are good for budget speakers, as are the CBM-170s that bargain seeker mentioned. The important thing is that you go and listen for yourself. Make yourself a demo cd of the music you like to listen to, and go listen to some speakers!

  5. #5
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Deals are out there to be had. I got my Klispch KSW300 sub for $499 as a discontinued item,its not bad. Right now on e-bay a couple of sellers have 602's for under $300. You might go with a sub first to take alot of the works off your old speakers until you upgrade them.

  6. #6
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    Thank you for all of your replies. I sort of figured that I was not going to get much for the amount that I quoted. Who is the maker of the 602's that were mentioned by shokhead? Is it a good idea to buy used subwoofers? Doesn't the subwoofer already have a pream built in to be plugged into the subwoofer plug in the back of the receiver ? What do I need to look for in a subwoofer? Thank you for your answers and your patience with my ignorance! :-)

  7. #7
    a hell of an engineer
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickG
    Thank you for all of your replies. I sort of figured that I was not going to get much for the amount that I quoted. Who is the maker of the 602's that were mentioned by shokhead? Is it a good idea to buy used subwoofers? Doesn't the subwoofer already have a pream built in to be plugged into the subwoofer plug in the back of the receiver ? What do I need to look for in a subwoofer? Thank you for your answers and your patience with my ignorance! :-)
    I believe that shokhead meant the B&W 602s.

    In my opinion, subwoofer technology has improved so dramatically in recent years that it is often a bad idea to buy a used subwoofer.

    Modern powered subwoofers have a built-in preamp/amp for connection to the subwoofer output of an A/V receiver.

    Ed Mullen, who wrote this review of the SVS PB10-ISD, is one of the most comprehensive and thorough reviewers of subwoofers. By reading what he looks for in testing subwoofers you can get a good sense of what to look for in one. For pipe organ music, look for a subwoofer that can reproduce a 17 Hz note in a listening room.

    I recommend the following approach to upgrading your speakers:

    1. Buy a good subwoofer and use your current speakers as mains and surrounds. Start out with no center channel speaker and no rear speakers.

    2. Buy three matched bookshelf speakers to serve as center and mains. Move your old mains to serve as rears with your 7.1 receiver.

    3. Buy two more of your chosen bookshelf speakers to serve as surrounds. Phase out a pair of your original speakers.

    4. Buy two more of your chosen bookshelf speakers to serve as rears. Phase out your last pair of original speakers.

    As to only buying speakers you can listen to in person, I used to recommend the same thing. In a perfect world where all brands of speakers are available from local retailers at online prices, in person listening would still be the way to go. However, today the hands down best deals in loudspeakers are from manufacturers and importers who sell direct to consumers through online sales. By doing so, they can put more money into R&D and product components and less into marketing and markup. Therefore, it is worth considering speakers that you have never heard in person as long as you are willing to put the time and effort into evaluating them at home during the 30 or 45 day trial period.

  8. #8
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    Bargainseeker,
    Thankyou for the information. After reading what you and others have said, I have pretty much decided to get a subwoofer and make do for a while with what I have. I do appreciate your gradual plan of speaker additions. I have not kept up with audio as I had other things going. That is the reason why most of my equipment is old. I looked on Ebay at used equipment and I was somewhat overwhelmed. I would tend to agree with you as far as the state of the art changing quickly. The SVS PB 10 sounds like a lot for the money. I also like its physical diminsions as it would good where I need to place it.
    Thanks again for all of the advice.

  9. #9
    a hell of an engineer
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    You're welcome.
    Last edited by bargainseeker; 01-01-2005 at 06:12 PM.

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