Best Speakers For $2K USD

[Buzz Roll]

I was pretty harsh on the Genelecs and don't mean to put words in your mouth, RGA, but you guessed right. I do feel they would be good home theatre speakers.

I'm noticing the gap between home and pro listening to close a bit. A lot less engineers are using NS-10s and moving towards speakers like Green Mountain Audio Europas. A non-fatiguing speaker that happens to retain a certain level of "accuracy". The Dynaudio Air system that I've used recently also has a pretty smooth yet informative sound to it. They are up there with the PMCs performance-wise, but I could live with the Dyns at home too.

[topspeed]

Aren't Genelecs in fact known more for the Pro applications than anything else? Like RGA mentions, this really doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, I'm just trying to get his straight. All of the Genelec apps I've seen have been using their active speakers as pro monitors for my musician friends. I've actually never seen them used in a domestic setting, which is not to say they wouldn't excel in such.

[Florian]

Well what can i say, the Maggies are exeptional and i would never ever have thought of selling them. But i have rearanged them over 3 weeks and just could not get the right sound from them. I also got reminded of the typical sound traits and new it was time for me to go on. I looked at Eminent Tech, NewForms and finally settled with the VMPS. I think at hart i am more of a "exotic" weird "2 channel fanatic".

[RGA]

Well what can i say, the Maggies are exeptional and i would never ever have thought of selling them. But i have rearanged them over 3 weeks and just could not get the right sound from them. I also got reminded of the typical sound traits and new it was time for me to go on. I looked at Eminent Tech, NewForms and finally settled with the VMPS. I think at hart i am more of a "exotic" weird "2 channel fanatic".

You have nothing to be ashamed of - Maggies have huge followings and I would love t hear the big ones for an extended period. One of the sales people at Soundhounds had the big Maggies and they elected as a dealer not to carry Magnepan because they can;t get them to sound right. Paul said they were frustrating because at first you get a real kind of sound a holographic 3d sense but getting it to work in a room (which is a box) is exceedingly difficult in his view. Soundhounds dropped the popular Martin Logan because they too are simply a pain in the ass to set-up.

Really I think we're all overly anal - Just find something that doesn't irritate and be done with it. I won't see another upgrade on the speaker front for 20+ years I hope ---- unless I win the big old lottery.

The whole idea of pro versus home speakers is ludicrous and has more to do with positioning and durability than anything else. The PMC TB1 is used in a recording studios and had a a solid black boring looking box - slap on a nice wood colour and boom it's a home speaker, but it's only good in the near field - putting it in a normal medium sized living space and it sounds very thin and lacks weight and dynamics. In a small room 10X11 kind of thing and it sounded quite excellent with jaw dropping tight bass.

At the end of the day I like the PMC very much have often recommended it and its bigger brother the TB2 --- but I'd rather listen to the AN K and despite the Reference 3a MM de Capo's rather large frequency dip it is more listenable long term.

[Buzz Roll]

Westlake Audio does just as mentioned above, put some veneer on some of their pro monitors and it's comsumer-ready. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because their monitors are quite good. For the most part, if you put veneer on 99% of the "studio monitors" out there and put them in my home, I'd be pretty unhappy with the sound. Take those same monitors and throw them in a studio - I'd be pretty unhappy with the sound. Put a pair of A/N's or GMA's in a recording studio, and I'll bet most engineers out there will give you a great mix with a whole lot less guess-work.

[RGA]

Buzz Roll - I would love to hear GMA because Noel at Skylan liked them a lot. His stands are excellent cheaper options for AN speakers too. Audio Note also time aligns their speakers (not advertised). AN is also used in recording studios which again they don't advertise. Indeed, why advertise it? That tells you zilch about whether you're going to LIKE the speaker in the real world - and for me that's the only thing I care about. The graphs and the technobabble mean nothing if it sounds bad.

Indeed, advertising that a speaker is used in a recording studio can have a psychological adverse effect especially if the recordings are not good - the speaker could get blamed. Star Wars DVD release for instance.

[astravitz]

If you are looking for a class "A" audiophile speaker, you need to do your homework and check out the Triangle Speakers line. They are time and time chosen as the top speakers for the money. Either the Antals or Celius are amazing speakers. The Titus are also considered very high end speakers. (http://www.triangle-fr.com/uk/index.php)

The build quality, parts and performance of the Triangle Celius blows away any speaker mentioned on this board so far. You also might want to consider purchasing a used "Audio Physic" speaker on Audiogon. The Audio Physic speakers are produced in Germany and tend to sound amazing and have tremendous quality.

Both of these brands are much more focued on Musical reproduction. If you're more interested in Home Theatre, you can purchase a complete 5.1 set of PSB Speakers for about the same money (I only recommend the 5 1/4" woofers - I'm not a fan of the 6 1/2" woofer).

I've heard most of the high end speakers out there and Triangle & Audio Physic have the best sound for the money.

[Buzz Roll]

Aha - ANs ARE used in recording studios - makes sense to me. A lot of people in the biz are getting hip to hi end sound. A few years ago, Tony Levin got into the high end thing and he says that his friends are always trying to come over to his house to check their mixes. Rick Rubin does the same thing with his uber-rig.

Paradigm STUDIO series? - I'm not really sure where they're going with that one...

I agree with the advertising thing, that's why I like the Ohms so much. They really just want you to hear them in your home, against your current speakers - they send them right to you. Most of their advertising is word of mouth.

[dba]

I have used PMC TB2 and the Audio Physic Spark,plus some B&W CDM1se,and my new set,Von Schweikert VR-1,blew them all away

if you discount these speakers you are missing a real treat

[RGA]

Aha - ANs ARE used in recording studios - makes sense to me. A lot of people in the biz are getting hip to hi end sound. A few years ago, Tony Levin got into the high end thing and he says that his friends are always trying to come over to his house to check their mixes. Rick Rubin does the same thing with his uber-rig.

Paradigm STUDIO series? - I'm not really sure where they're going with that one...

I agree with the advertising thing, that's why I like the Ohms so much. They really just want you to hear them in your home, against your current speakers - they send them right to you. Most of their advertising is word of mouth.

The other thing is that when a designer actually is an avid music lover and has a huge live listening reference base as well as a massive personal music collection it greatly helps you know what the heck should be coming out of a music reproduction system. It's one thing to engineer a paint by numbers speaker from a computer system - it's another to use the computers and math and then listen and listen and listen and re-work it. Peter Q of Audio Note has a personal collection of albums in excess now of 70,000 albums - he has heard all of the major designs for the last 30+ years and was a dealer for a long time. Experience counts here as well.

I asked him whyhe doesn't advertise and never advertised the technical aspects of his speakers - and there is much there in a deceptive package, and why not tell people about the studios using his speakers etc. At the end of the day you either like what you hear or you don't and that is what counts - word of mouth advertising is free and that's the best advertising for companies like Audio Note... and it sounds the same for Ohm. Peter doesn't want a huge company because it becomes harder to manage. They have 6 month waiting lists on some gear as it is. If he wanted a big company that would be easy.

I want the people building and designing loudspeakers to actually listen - not just hand it over to an engineering department of 20 people and a final decision made by an accounting officer to pull the last minute cheap outs. I hae heard so many of the big guys and they are generally embarrassed by the small fries.

Ie, Ferrari and Bentley vs Ford and GM ---- whatever.

[drseid]

If you are looking for a class "A" audiophile speaker, you need to do your homework and check out the Triangle Speakers line. They are time and time chosen as the top speakers for the money.

The build quality, parts and performance of the Triangle Celius blows away any speaker mentioned on this board so far.

I've heard most of the high end speakers out there and Triangle & Audio Physic have the best sound for the money.

By whom, you? No offense to Triangle, as I actually like their speakers a lot, but I think your statement is rather bold indeed.

You certainly are entitled to feel the way you do, but I think you lose some credibility with statements like "blows away any speaker on this board" and "I have heard most high-end speakers out there."

Enjoy your Triangles, but I think I will "suffer" with my Tylers, as I am sure other posters will have to "make do" with their choices as well. ;-)

Regards,

---Dave

[theaudiohobby]

Here we are discussing a line of speakers with comprehensive published measurements and specs against products such as the GMA, Audio Note and PMC that have no published measurements anywhere, none of them publish any detailed measurements on their sites or in their promotional brochures. If all these companies are so proud of their products accuracy as you guys suggest, why no published measurements or full specifications of their speakers. Neither PMC, GMA nor Audio Note provide any distortion, frequency response, dispersion specifications or measurements, so how did we arrive at comments critiquing the Genelec's published distortion, frequency response (both inferences were wrong by the way) and accuracy, on what basis, against which products.

Buzz Roll, the PMC AML1 costs USD5.2K, yet you referred to the Genelec at USD3.5K as overpriced, reading your old posts I think you know very little about both products. Now RGA you say that the PMC goes deeper, the AML1 (PMC's top nearfield monitor) is rated down to 33Hz with no dB deviation and no indication as to whether it is a freefield measurement or not, so how did you come to conclude that it goes deeper than the Genelec 8050?

I am all for critiqueing products, but please do so intelligently and credibly with the facts to back up your assertions.

[Florian]

Well, i dont really wanna comment to much on specs. Most companys specs are nowhere near what they actually have. Most great companys like NewForm, Eminent Tech and VMPS actually tell you what sorta response you get in your room once you give them the measurments. I do like specs, but have learned not to pay much attention to it anymore.

As far as a recommendation goes, i highly recommend the VMPS 626R.

[theaudiohobby]

Most companys specs are nowhere near what they actually have. Most great companys like NewForm, Eminent Tech and VMPS actually tell you what sorta response you get in your room once you give them the measurments. I do like specs, but have learned not to pay much attention to it anymore. .

In this case though, both BuzzRoll and RGA are pontificating over speakers they have not heard, all their comments are based on the spec and published measurements, will Genelec install speakers in a major studio and not provide the studio the in-room response measurements? And as I said earlier, RGA comments on the frequency response and distortion do not concur with the either the stated specs or measurements. It is a bit rich to claim that a speaker that has no published measurement or detailed specs is more accurate or goes deeper than one that does, especially when you have not heard either of them.

[Florian]

While that is certainly true, there are many more problems which you guys face. Every room has a different volume, shape, dimension and equipment. Some speakers can be measured accuratly in a a-chamber and others cant. Many speakers can go low, but have huge drop off's after a certain sound preassure. Personally id stay aways from big marketing companys. So far the best i have had comes from small companys.

One should take specs into consideration but take them with a grain of salt because those measurments will never happen in your room. Now buying a regular priced bookshelf such as a Audio Note, B&W, Klipsch, DefTech, NewForm, VMPS etc... is a good choice and i would just spend 400$ on a digital room equalizer and some room treatments, since they are very important and almost always overlooked.

-Florian

[Florian]

What are we talking about ? Is he looking for a good Studio speaker, or a good speaker he listen to music with while sitting on a couch in a "non-otimal" room .

[theaudiohobby]

One should take specs into consideration but take them with a grain of salt because those measurments will never happen in your room

There is software available that calculates your in-room response once you enter the anechoic response, room dimensions and other pertinent variables, when you supply your room dimensions to VMPS , that is what they do, calculating the in-room response of a pair of speakers is not a biggie by any means

All the companies that you have mentioned only supply domestic speakers and some of those speakers have serious limitations that preclude their use in professional studio environment and secondly many of them are reticent to provide measurements of the speaker for a variety of reasons. Genelec is a studio monitoring equipment manufacturer i.e. the speakers are tools, i..e. the measurements are necessary for optimal positioning and use, they even state maximum recomended listening distance for each speaker. Mackie, Alesis, Genelec and the professional studio monitor manufacturers have nothing to gain but a lot to lose by publishing false specs and measurements.

A quality speaker is a quality speaker irrespective of the size of the company that built it, I have heard speakers from small companies that sound good and as well those that sound bad, bad products are not exclusive preserve of large companies and neither are good products the exclusive preserve of small companies.

[theaudiohobby]

What are we talking about ? Is he looking for a good Studio speaker, or a good speaker he listen to music with while sitting on a couch in a "non-otimal" room .

You are the one that went off on a tangent by suggesting that the supplied measurements and specs are not reliable, however as I have pointed out, you can derive the in-room response measurements from the anechoic response, a good speaker is a good speaker, pure and simple. In this particular case, Genelec gives you more data to enable you achieve optimal sound in your listening environment than any of the companies you have mentioned.

[Buzz Roll]

Re-read my posts again. I have in fact heard all of the speakers that I've commented on - especially the Genelecs. It was in a professional environment where they seriously let me down - specs or no specs.

[Florian]

I am simply suggesting a "best speaker for 2K" that in my opinion is the most musical. I dont want to argue and i dont care about Pro audio anyways.

[Buzz Roll]

Florian, let us know when you have the new speakers, I'd like to hear your review.

[theaudiohobby]

I am simply suggesting a "best speaker for 2K" that in my opinion is the most musical. I dont want to argue and i dont care about Pro audio anyways.

Then next time, do not stir the pot.

[Florian]

I sure will. I will also use Audioquest NRG-2 Powercables and AudioQuest SLATE speaker cables Biwired. And Wireworld Solsitce between the Jolida the AA and the Krell.

[Florian]

Then next time, do not stir the pot.

Man my british buddys are all chillers. You seem very agressive and hyped up. Chill out !! I did not mean to stir anything.

[theaudiohobby]

I am an analyst by profession, so I hate unconsidered comments, it wastes time and it wastes money, you casually suggested that Genelec measurements and specifications are unreliable and that from a position of ignorance.oh well..I am a nice bloke but I hate throw away comments. oh by the way, I love the Rhineland