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  1. #1
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    How important are stands anyway?

    Thanks for the replies guys. I've been out of town so I'll reply to eveyone here. The stands the dealer (not Custom TV, Wooch) lent me are these massive four post jobs that weigh about 50lbs w/ sand and cost $400 according to him. No way am I spending that much to hold up the VR1's.

    Woochifer:
    Yeah, the cows really like the sound of 'em too . Thanks for all of the links and I'll definitely check into them and I have no problem assembling them. Right now, the front runner is the Sound Orgainisation Z522 from AudioAdvisor for $135. Wide base and I like the finish. The Sound Anchor is what you used right? I'll give them a hard look.

    RGA:
    Thanks for the kind words. Albert Von Schweikert has actually been around for quite awhile, like 30 years or something so he's certainly not new on the scene. I'll look into Skylands, too. You could be right about preferring the VR1's to the 1NT's, but only for certain music. Because the tweeter response is different, they seem at first blush to be a more forgiving speaker than the 1NT's on bad recordings. I actually had no idea how many of my cd's were of such poor quality until I got my B&W rig. On a side note I finally had a chance to audition the 705's over the weekend. While they dropped audibly lower than the 1NT's, I felt their sound had been voiced a little closer to the 600's than the N800's. Interestingly enough, the dealer said the exact same thing without any prompting from me. He said the problem they always had with the CDM's was that the differences between the N800 and CDM line was too subtle. It was there to be sure, but manytimes the CDM's were cannablizing N800 sales. BTW, he had no idea I owned CDM's so he wasn't playing up to my ego. With the new 700's there is more separation between the lines. Nothing dramatic, but definitely different. Warmer IMO.

    Swerd:
    I want to load these with sand so wood is out (even though I prefer the look).

    OK, sand or lead shot? Where do you get lead shot anyway and is it going to be real expensive? Pros or cons for either?

    Thanks again for your help.

  2. #2
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    Cool Lead shot

    cost, I don't know, but a couple of sources you can ck on for getting the lead.

    One would be an amo dealer .... purchase in bulk for reloading shotgun shells.

    Another - a fishing supplier .. purchase in bulk to melt down for making slip shot sinkers and the likes

    Good Luck !

    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    Thanks for the replies guys. I've been out of town so I'll reply to eveyone here. The stands the dealer (not Custom TV, Wooch) lent me are these massive four post jobs that weigh about 50lbs w/ sand and cost $400 according to him. No way am I spending that much to hold up the VR1's.

    Woochifer:
    Yeah, the cows really like the sound of 'em too . Thanks for all of the links and I'll definitely check into them and I have no problem assembling them. Right now, the front runner is the Sound Orgainisation Z522 from AudioAdvisor for $135. Wide base and I like the finish. The Sound Anchor is what you used right? I'll give them a hard look.

    RGA:
    Thanks for the kind words. Albert Von Schweikert has actually been around for quite awhile, like 30 years or something so he's certainly not new on the scene. I'll look into Skylands, too. You could be right about preferring the VR1's to the 1NT's, but only for certain music. Because the tweeter response is different, they seem at first blush to be a more forgiving speaker than the 1NT's on bad recordings. I actually had no idea how many of my cd's were of such poor quality until I got my B&W rig. On a side note I finally had a chance to audition the 705's over the weekend. While they dropped audibly lower than the 1NT's, I felt their sound had been voiced a little closer to the 600's than the N800's. Interestingly enough, the dealer said the exact same thing without any prompting from me. He said the problem they always had with the CDM's was that the differences between the N800 and CDM line was too subtle. It was there to be sure, but manytimes the CDM's were cannablizing N800 sales. BTW, he had no idea I owned CDM's so he wasn't playing up to my ego. With the new 700's there is more separation between the lines. Nothing dramatic, but definitely different. Warmer IMO.

    Swerd:
    I want to load these with sand so wood is out (even though I prefer the look).

    OK, sand or lead shot? Where do you get lead shot anyway and is it going to be real expensive? Pros or cons for either?

    Thanks again for your help.

  3. #3
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tip omikey! (nt)

    .......

  4. #4
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    Thanks for the replies guys. I've been out of town so I'll reply to eveyone here. The stands the dealer (not Custom TV, Wooch) lent me are these massive four post jobs that weigh about 50lbs w/ sand and cost $400 according to him. No way am I spending that much to hold up the VR1's.

    Woochifer:
    Yeah, the cows really like the sound of 'em too . Thanks for all of the links and I'll definitely check into them and I have no problem assembling them. Right now, the front runner is the Sound Orgainisation Z522 from AudioAdvisor for $135. Wide base and I like the finish. The Sound Anchor is what you used right? I'll give them a hard look.
    I just took a quick look at those stands and they look like pretty solid options, though for your speakers, 23" seems a bit low. The only area where you might want to take a closer look is in the base and the spikes, because on the screen they look pretty thin. And with metal stands, that's typically where the less expensive ones skimp -- in the weight and solidity of the base plate. Another area where the quality usually slips is in how the base plate, top plate, and columns fit together. Some really cheap wood stands that I've used before weren't even level, and the joints had visible gaps.

    Once the stands are filled, most of them should be reasonably stable and inert, which is what you're looking for. Sound quality wise, I'm less convinced on how big a difference filling the columns makes so long as you have some kind of isolation, like neoprene pads, on the top plate and a good anchoring to the floor. In general, wood stands cost less and are lighter and have lower load capacity, but considering that your speakers are fairly light, it probably won't matter what stand you go with so long as it's reasonably stable and you can level it out.

    Also, the reason why I bring up the Sound Anchors is because they are welded together in one piece, with a seamless joint between the columns and base. I would highly recommend them for heavier speakers or if you have a specific height that you need. I went with the Sound Anchor adjustable stands, beause I wanted something that could elevate my surround speakers over 40" in height and support 30 lbs. Going from store to store, I found surprisingly few options that meet these criteria. They're not cheap, but they're exactly what I was looking for (and at 65 lbs. each, they won't tip over if you run into them, they'll just bruise you). Being able to lower the surrounds for multichannel music and raise them for movies was a nice bonus.

  5. #5
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Checked in w/ Sound Anchors

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    I just took a quick look at those stands and they look like pretty solid options, though for your speakers, 23" seems a bit low. The only area where you might want to take a closer look is in the base and the spikes, because on the screen they look pretty thin. And with metal stands, that's typically where the less expensive ones skimp -- in the weight and solidity of the base plate. Another area where the quality usually slips is in how the base plate, top plate, and columns fit together. Some really cheap wood stands that I've used before weren't even level, and the joints had visible gaps.

    Once the stands are filled, most of them should be reasonably stable and inert, which is what you're looking for. Sound quality wise, I'm less convinced on how big a difference filling the columns makes so long as you have some kind of isolation, like neoprene pads, on the top plate and a good anchoring to the floor. In general, wood stands cost less and are lighter and have lower load capacity, but considering that your speakers are fairly light, it probably won't matter what stand you go with so long as it's reasonably stable and you can level it out.

    Also, the reason why I bring up the Sound Anchors is because they are welded together in one piece, with a seamless joint between the columns and base. I would highly recommend them for heavier speakers or if you have a specific height that you need. I went with the Sound Anchor adjustable stands, beause I wanted something that could elevate my surround speakers over 40" in height and support 30 lbs. Going from store to store, I found surprisingly few options that meet these criteria. They're not cheap, but they're exactly what I was looking for (and at 65 lbs. each, they won't tip over if you run into them, they'll just bruise you). Being able to lower the surrounds for multichannel music and raise them for movies was a nice bonus.
    Thanks Wooch,

    I e-mailed SA this morning for a quote for the VR1. They replied that they have made stands for this model before with prices of $450 and $550. Yeek. I don't doubt their quality but it's safe to say that SA is beyond my consideration.

    I agree w/ your assessment of wood stands and they were actually never a consideration. I always knew I would be buying metal stands filled with sand or shot. The weight isn't so much for the sound benefits but because I've got both 4 and 2 yr old boys wreaking havoc in my house! I need something that is stable. Interestingly enough, the VR1 come with cones to be placed between the base of the speaker and the stand to improve sound. Mapleshade also recommends using cones or some other hard material to couple the speaker to the stand and not neoprene or other "soft" material. Of course they also sell stands for your speaker wires to decouple them from the ground. Uh, yeah...okay.

    Thanks for the tips on checking the quality of the Sound Organisation stands. I'll try to locate a pair to inspect. How high would you recommend I make these stands?

  6. #6
    RGA
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    First with regard to the stand I think people are overblowing this like people do with cables.

    Pose your question on AA and ask about Skylan. People who have actually physically seen touched and owned them I doubt will say anything other than they're the best value available for the money. $200.00Cdn is somehting like $140US maybe less. Use BluTak for the speaker/stand connection. Audio Note was nice enough to supply a couple of small packets - and their AN logo so you can decide where or if you want to put it on the speaker. BluTak requires very little - pea size in four corners and the stuff holds rock tight.

    I also don't really understand why one would not like wood. Speakers are after all made from wood. Big floorstanders like the N802 certainly don't have issues with gross box resonances...it's how good stable and non resonant the material is that counts. That can be done with steel or wood. Once filled the stand shouldn't vibrate.

    I think the reason Skylan uses MDF is because it doesn't vibrate...why so many actual speakers are made out of MDF and turntable platters. It is to kill those vibrations. The base of my stands are very similar in touch and feel anyway to turntable bases for serious vinylphiles.

    Anyway good luck to yo there are loads of stand makers who seem competant for low money like Atacama and Lovan etc.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    Thanks Wooch,

    I e-mailed SA this morning for a quote for the VR1. They replied that they have made stands for this model before with prices of $450 and $550. Yeek. I don't doubt their quality but it's safe to say that SA is beyond my consideration.

    I agree w/ your assessment of wood stands and they were actually never a consideration. I always knew I would be buying metal stands filled with sand or shot. The weight isn't so much for the sound benefits but because I've got both 4 and 2 yr old boys wreaking havoc in my house! I need something that is stable. Interestingly enough, the VR1 come with cones to be placed between the base of the speaker and the stand to improve sound. Mapleshade also recommends using cones or some other hard material to couple the speaker to the stand and not neoprene or other "soft" material. Of course they also sell stands for your speaker wires to decouple them from the ground. Uh, yeah...okay.

    Thanks for the tips on checking the quality of the Sound Organisation stands. I'll try to locate a pair to inspect. How high would you recommend I make these stands?

    Actually, Sound Anchor charges more for the custom stands that they make for high end B&W, Wilson, Vandersteen, Aerial, and Magnepan models. They also make a lineup of more generic stands that you can customize by height and the size of the top plate, and don't cost as much.

    With kids running around the house, I would use hard cones or divets only if the speakers are predrilled with holes for those types of isolators. Neoprene's fine in that it adds just enough separation from the stand to keep the speakers from transmitting vibrations. Actually, those cable elevators that you describe can help in very specific circumstances. For whatever reason, in my old apartment, I picked up a lot of interference when I let the speaker cables snake along the floor. Only when I elevated them off the floor did the audible interference stop.

    As for the stand height, you speakers seem small enough to fit a height of about 28".

  8. #8
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    RGA,

    Did I miss something or can you fill the Skylans with sand or shot? Aren't they solid wood? The metal vs. wood thing is for stability concerns because you can fill the metal ones thereby lowering the center of gravity as well as making them much less prone to being knocked over. As for acoustic differences, I'm with you in that I think the differences between metal and wood would me minimal, especially concerning the vibration issue. BTW, are those prices on the Skylan website Canadian $?

    Woochifer,
    Thanks for the recommendation. I'm going to measure the current stands because I think they're just about right. I think they're 32".

    Thanks again guys.

  9. #9
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    RGA,

    Did I miss something or can you fill the Skylans with sand or shot? Aren't they solid wood? The metal vs. wood thing is for stability concerns because you can fill the metal ones thereby lowering the center of gravity as well as making them much less prone to being knocked over. As for acoustic differences, I'm with you in that I think the differences between metal and wood would me minimal, especially concerning the vibration issue. BTW, are those prices on the Skylan website Canadian $?

    Woochifer,
    Thanks for the recommendation. I'm going to measure the current stands because I think they're just about right. I think they're 32".

    Thanks again guys.
    The Skylans are fillable with sand and have a metal wire running down both pillars. The bottom plate and top plate are MDF and viscous damped. Paul Lam would probably know nut i have no scale. Naturally they come with spikes and a rounded edge for style and not to beat up your toes. A thoughtful thing for people who have kids.


    "SKYLAN speaker stands are MASS-LOADING.
    Strong, yet light, they are engineered with MDF and Polymer Extrusion. Skylan speaker stands are MASS-LOADING. Construction consists of a rigid central pillar which can be sand filled for mass loading. The base is 1inch thick, and features die-cast threaded inserts for adjustable steel points or soft feet. The top plate is also rigid and non-resonant and incorporates high friction neoprene de-coupling pads to improve the speaker/stand interface.

    I'm not saying there are no better stands in the world. I'm just saying that for $200.00Cdn I have seen nothing nearly as well made. Paul Lam has sold em for a long time and has a bit of insider info on more of the technical aspects inside the bases. They supposedly have good reason for not using any single pillar design.

    They're out of Alberta Canada which is why it was a bonus to me.

    But think about it guys. Everyone seems to love Paradigm and other Canadian speakers because they all seem to think they offer the best value for low money and better designs and build.

    Well here is a stand company from Canada - so what the heck are you waiting for?

  10. #10
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    Who is Paul Lam????!!!

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