Bedroom speakers done! Thanks for the help!

[topspeed]

This is a follow-up to my unique query for standmounts that would match my new cherry bedroom furniture. Well, after listening to JM Lab Chorus S, Energy Veritas 2.1, Monitor Gold, Paradigm 20 v3, and others (although I couldn't find Wharfedale), I ended up with the Von Schweikert VR1 in African Hazelwood, which even though they have a real cherry wood veneer, the hazelwood was a spot-on match for our armoire. In addition, with their lustrous finish, these puppies have a very high WAF...always a good thing. I only briefly considered ordering a pair of MMG's for fun but with a vintage Marantz 2230 with a measly 30wpc as it's end drive unit, I thought otherwise. The clincher was when I was able to negotiate an exceptional deal from a very accommodating dealer: $675 vs. $995 list. That's less than used ones on Audiogon.
http://vonschweikert.com/vr1.html

What a great little speaker this is kids. Different from my B&W's, but as RGA so astutely opined, that's what I was looking for. I hooked them up to my main system for a spin and was just blown away by their imaging, spaciousness, and off axis response. They just disappear. Liquid mids, smooth highs, and more bass extension than any 13lb speaker has a right to (more accurate than the Veritas but more punch than the Monitor's or Paradigms). Beautiful construction too that ranks right up there with B&W's. When driven by the Marantz, man they are just sooo smoooooth. Perfect for the bedroom. They come in velvet bags and Albert Von Schweikert includes an autographed frequency response graph for each speaker measured before being packaged. Cool.

Anyway, thanks again for all your help. I learn more from this place than in any mag or shop.

Now I need stands! Any suggestions guys/gals? Under $150/pair if possible.

[Woochifer]

This is a follow-up to my unique query for standmounts that would match my new cherry bedroom furniture. Well, after listening to JM Lab Chorus S, Energy Veritas 2.1, Monitor Gold, Paradigm 20 v3, and others (although I couldn't find Wharfedale), I ended up with the Von Schweikert VR1 in African Hazelwood, which even though they have a real cherry wood veneer, the hazelwood was a spot-on match for our armoire. In addition, with their lustrous finish, these puppies have a very high WAF...always a good thing. I only briefly considered ordering a pair of MMG's for fun but with a vintage Marantz 2230 with a measly 30wpc as it's end drive unit, I thought otherwise. The clincher was when I was able to negotiate an exceptional deal from a very accommodating dealer: $675 vs. $995 list. That's less than used ones on Audiogon.
http://vonschweikert.com/vr1.html

What a great little speaker this is kids. Different from my B&W's, but as RGA so astutely opined, that's what I was looking for. I hooked them up to my main system for a spin and was just blown away by their imaging, spaciousness, and off axis response. They just disappear. Liquid mids, smooth highs, and more bass extension than any 13lb speaker has a right to (more accurate than the Veritas but more punch than the Monitor's or Paradigms). Beautiful construction too that ranks right up there with B&W's. When driven by the Marantz, man they are just sooo smoooooth. Perfect for the bedroom. They come in velvet bags and Albert Von Schweikert includes an autographed frequency response graph for each speaker measured before being packaged. Cool.

Anyway, thanks again for all your help. I learn more from this place than in any mag or shop.

Now I need stands! Any suggestions guys/gals? Under $150/pair if possible.

Boy, I'll bet that you're the envy of all Tulare County now! Not a bad find. My Paradigm dealer picked up the Von Schweikert and Wilson Audio lines after Dunlavy went belly up last year. I didn't know that they made anything under $1k, and I've seen their Von Schweikerts in the demo room where they keep all their tube equipment. I'll have to give them a listen when I return there to try out the Signature S4s.

I grew up with a Marantz 2275, so I can attest to their smooth character (though I question whether the "zero state" on all those switches is truly flat).

As far as stands go, did you look into the Von Schweikert stands? Otherwise, for your price range, are you okay with flat-packed self-assembly stands, or are you looking for something more substantial? In your price range, pretty much all of the options are flat-packed self-assembly stands. Lovan, Sanus, and Target all make fillable steel column stands that are widely available and reasonable quality (Target Audio is probably the best constructed among the budget stands, but I've heard conflicting info about whether that company's still around and/or still distributes to the U.S.). Also, Paradigm's Premier stands are very good for the price (about $120 a pair for the steel column S-series stands). If you're thinking about going back to Custom TV to see what they got, they've moved to a new location closer to the mall. So, don't be alarmed if you drop by and see an empty showroom. Some online sources:

http://www.racksandstands.com
http://www.audioadvisor.com (there are links to their site from this forum, so use them since they support this board)
http://www.amusicdirect.com
http://www.dynamichometheater.com (another site sponsor, so use the link from the front page)

If you want something more solid, then you'll need to pay more in the $200-$300+ range. I would recommend that you also look at Sound Anchor, which custom welds speaker stands to your specs. Those are shipped pre-assembled and pre-weighted, if you want. Their standard model goes for about $200 a pair (depending on the height), and they're very heavy and solid.

http://www.soundanchor.com

[RGA]

Congrats have heard raves a lot about the VR's. A lot of companies are sprouting up by true artisans who are in it solely out of their passion to build great audio.

My Skylans start at $200.00Cdn - My dealer, one not out to hose everyone, was high on them. They will custom make them to suit your needs if you wish including the top plates to suit the speaker's size.

I was looking at some of the comparable stands from B&W, Quest, Mission, Lovan and for the same or more money simply felt totally cheesy...the idea is to be totally rock solid. I have the Sky 20D - I don't see the point of spending more unless you have bigger speakers - which you don't. http://www.skylanstands.com/stands.htm

I'm sure there are many options but I have found nothing for the price that's remotely at this level. But we don't get certain brands in Canada perhaps either.

[Woochifer]

Congrats have heard raves a lot about the VR's. A lot of companies are sprouting up by true artisans who are in it solely out of their passion to build great audio.

...AND make enough to stay in business. Passion for audio alone isn't going to sustain a company without some business acumen or technical know-how.

My Skylans start at $200.00Cdn - My dealer, one not out to hose everyone, was high on them. They will custom make them to suit your needs if you wish including the top plates to suit the speaker's size.

I was looking at some of the comparable stands from B&W, Quest, Mission, Lovan and for the same or more money simply felt totally cheesy...the idea is to be totally rock solid. I have the Sky 20D - I don't see the point of spending more unless you have bigger speakers - which you don't. http://www.skylanstands.com/stands.htm

I'm sure there are many options but I have found nothing for the price that's remotely at this level. But we don't get certain brands in Canada perhaps either.

If those stands are as solid as they look, that's indeed a great find. Any idea on whether or not they distribute into the U.S.? Similar looking stands from Sonus Faber and others that I've seen go for $300 to $500, although from a closer reading it looks like those Skylan stands are made from wood rather than metal, which makes its price higher than other wood stands that I've seen (though from appearances, it looks a lot more substantial than other wood stands). Aside from looks, the main difference with some stands is whether the columns bolt onto the base or if the pieces are welded together. A welded single-piece would cost more to ship than something that can flat pack with more user assembly.

Also, the thing to watch out for with speaker stands at dealers is that even the cheaper stands can feel a lot more substantial once they are filled and properly leveled. Filling my speaker stands with sand added about 15 lbs. to their weight, which dampened the columns, lowered the center of gravity, and added quite a bit of stability, and they were already pretty stable before filling.

[RGA]

Well of course filling any stand is mostly the total battle since that accounts fro the bulk of the weight in most stands. Skylan's site doesn't say much about the design - don't want to give the game away. I'm pretty sure Paul Lam sells them(have not seen him here for a while, and there were a number of discussions on AA.

the interesting thing is that it is MDF and and some sort of polymer weighed more than the metal stands. Steel rings, MDF doesn't or doesn't as much...Either design will do the job once filled...not filling a Steel stand would probably be a disaster area. After all many turntable platters are made out of MDF for a reason - as are the plinths. Rega I think uses a tempered glass but their Rega 2 uses MDF now. There is then a long metal insert that goes down into each colum...which I forget the purpose of because i had the dealer put the stands together for me and fill them(free too which was nice).

The one thig to note though is that I am in Canada so buying some of the American made stands can get prohibitively expensive...and the stands from B&W are just a rip-job pricing wise by the time they're shipped here. The Stand for the CDM 1NT way back was $650.00 was metal but was not nearly as good as the Skylans. Something tells me they are trying to recoup some costs on the speakers by hightening the price of the stands.

Paul Lam knows the Skylan owner and there is apparently a fair amount of unseen technology within the plates. Frankly I don't know, but since the AN K's and Reference 3a were sitting on these stands...then to get the same sound I wanted the same stand. Something cheaper may have done just as good...the more expensive one's didn't with the B&W's - and the Lovan's and Atacama were the ones I wanted at first - and Skylan was actually more money than some of these. But felt more substantial than the Lovan and the atacama had to be ordered from the US.

The Audio Note Stands were a bit out of my price range.

"...AND make enough to stay in business. Passion for audio alone isn't going to sustain a company without some business acumen or technical know-how."

Well that is obvious - some however do go into this for the primary interest of making the best profit and some the best product...the former does enough quality to get by the latter does enough cheaping out to stay afloat.

Many starting these companies were loaded before they ever started the company and it is more of a fun thing to do - a rich man's hobby. If they're small enough the costs are down and if they can't sell they really lose little.

Danial Dehay the designer of Reference 3a at one time only made speakers above the 6kUS range because it was his view that it was high end or no end...he built them for himself and started a company. Then he made one lower end model the 3a - it got so popularar that he had to moveoperations become a bigger company and he wasn't a good enough businesman to handle a larger company...the quality sufferred because they were not taking care of each and every one and they went under. Bye bye 3a and enter Reference 3a...even here the De Capo is built in Canada and the rest are made in Europe.

Audio Note's owner is already a multi-milionaire and as he points out there are lot easier ways to make money than building stereo equipment - he sold his prior audio company because according to him it got too big and wasn't fun anymore and he dodn't have the control of the products going out the door. Like this VR owner, Audio note tests everything that gets shipped out - even Bryston still manages to do this and Sugden has the initials of the person that worked on your piece.

All of this comes at a higher cost - but then some of these can make up for it because they have low overhead, little employees and no advertising. Audio Note let's the dealer's pay for the odd advert in magazines and the AN Website is - to put it bluntly - something I could do better on front-page most likely. And Sugden JUST released their first Website in January - the previous one was by a fan. The attitude is that you'll find them - you'll hear them, and once you hear them no amount of advertising will save the ones who rely on the advertising. Well that's the theory how well it works is another matter because these smaller guys are, in fact, ---smaller!

I wouldn't be surprised that when Topspeed listens to these for a while that he may end up liking them a LOT more than the CDM 1NT - even though the VR1 costs about half the price. $600.00 probably goes to the B&W advertising campaign - Well not that much of course but the little guy has to offer a better product for the same or less if he wants to stick around. - or at least an "as good but different sounding option" to be more diplomatic which I understand I often fail to be.

[topspeed]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've been out of town so I'll reply to eveyone here. The stands the dealer (not Custom TV, Wooch) lent me are these massive four post jobs that weigh about 50lbs w/ sand and cost $400 according to him. No way am I spending that much to hold up the VR1's.

Woochifer:
Yeah, the cows really like the sound of 'em too . Thanks for all of the links and I'll definitely check into them and I have no problem assembling them. Right now, the front runner is the Sound Orgainisation Z522 from AudioAdvisor for $135. Wide base and I like the finish. The Sound Anchor is what you used right? I'll give them a hard look.

RGA:
Thanks for the kind words. Albert Von Schweikert has actually been around for quite awhile, like 30 years or something so he's certainly not new on the scene. I'll look into Skylands, too. You could be right about preferring the VR1's to the 1NT's, but only for certain music. Because the tweeter response is different, they seem at first blush to be a more forgiving speaker than the 1NT's on bad recordings. I actually had no idea how many of my cd's were of such poor quality until I got my B&W rig. On a side note I finally had a chance to audition the 705's over the weekend. While they dropped audibly lower than the 1NT's, I felt their sound had been voiced a little closer to the 600's than the N800's. Interestingly enough, the dealer said the exact same thing without any prompting from me. He said the problem they always had with the CDM's was that the differences between the N800 and CDM line was too subtle. It was there to be sure, but manytimes the CDM's were cannablizing N800 sales. BTW, he had no idea I owned CDM's so he wasn't playing up to my ego. With the new 700's there is more separation between the lines. Nothing dramatic, but definitely different. Warmer IMO.

Swerd:
I want to load these with sand so wood is out (even though I prefer the look).

OK, sand or lead shot? Where do you get lead shot anyway and is it going to be real expensive? Pros or cons for either?

Thanks again for your help.

[Swerd]

Now I need stands! Any suggestions guys/gals? Under $150/pair if possible.

I just finished a bedroom set up too. I used a Marantz 2230, vintage 1972, plus two Ed Frias AR.coms that I built. I like these speakers quite a lot, but you didn't seem interested in building a kit, so I didn't answer your previous post about speakers.

I bought a pair of solid cherry 21" tall Wood Technology stands from Crutchfield for $85. My wife preferred them to the more expensive steel stands. They come in cherry, oak, or ebony and range in height from 8" to 36". They are well-made and feel sturdy. They are shipped broken down, but were quite easy to assemble.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-u0lWN5e...=0&cc=01&avf=N