B & W, are they as good as they are cracked up to be?

[RGA]

I have to agree with Kex -- no one can blame them I guess for the advertising hype -- but please let us recognize that that is ALL it is. I'm not overly surprised that many audiophiles consider them to be the Bose of the "audiophile" world. You generally pay a lot more to get less with B&W. They would not be the first to use their name to ride weaker products or products that are no better than compatitors for a lot less money -- See the Sony Corporation and Bose for models for businesses to copy. B&W is doing well grasshopper.

Kevlar or metal may not be a problem -- integrating the two in my view has been with an audible lack of cohesion. Still there are some I'd recommend -- but when yuo hear more speakers the B&W's tend to fall back behind the pack -- Comparing them to the big makers with a similar business model means little to me.

[kexodusc]

The true benefit of Kevlar is in the FST midrange driver, in which the fibers are biased to produce a driver that varies it's effective radiating surface over frequency, and launches what is essentially a square wavefront. The driver literally pulsates rather than operating as a true piston.
The benefit is improved dispersion and breakup characteristics near the upper crossover frequency. A common problem with midrange drivers, which operate over a relatively wide and important frequency range.
The purported advantage of diamond tweeter diaphragms is the significantly higher resonance frequency; the driver is more linear within the audio range as a result.

IMO, the "hype" is mostly just interesting information for audiophiles, which B&W speakers have traditionally been intended for. Pure music lovers will just appreciate the transparent and natural sound reproduction.
The measurements of the latest $1000 603 indicate outstanding engineering; virtually flat response, very well controlled dispersion, no significant resonances, and very clean decay over the entire audio range.
These measurements would not be out of place attached to a $5000 speaker!

BTW, loudly touted frequency response and power handling specs are the most common form of misleading speaker marketing hype, similar to CPU "speed" in the computer market.
Both are aimed squarely at unsophisticated consumers, and usually have little to do with the acceptability or actual performance of the product.

Kevlar, on the other hand is fundamental to the performance characteristics of the Nautilus series, and is unique AFAIK to B&W.
One can hardly blame them for sharing the details of this innovative driver design with consumers.

B&W was not the first or only to use Kevlar in speakers...Usher, Davis, Eton, Hi-Vi Research, and Scan-speak are just a few big names that manufacture Kevlar drivers...
They're never cheap, and some are quite highly praised.

[snickelfritz]

If we get back to the original topic; "are they as good as they are cracked up to be?"
The short answer is probably yes.

Yes, it's true that the recording industry has a long history with B&W.
Yes, it's true that Skywalker Ranch has a pair of N802s in their theater.
Yes, it's true that B&W develops their own drivers and has state of the art facilities in which to do it.
Yes, they're better than a pair of JBLs from Bestbuy.
Yes, B&W is a globally respected name for good reasons.

Not sure if someone has "cracked them up" to be something other than a highly respected World-class loudspeaker developer and manufacturer.
That, they certainly are.

BTW, I was not aware that other companies were manufacturing Fixed Suspension Transducers with Kevlar diaphragms.
B&W has the only FST driver I have ever seen anywhere. (the fact that it uses Kevlar is secondary)

[Florian]

If we get back to the original topic; "are they as good as they are cracked up to be?"
The short answer is probably yes.

Yes, it's true that the recording industry has a long history with B&W.
So does M&K, Apogee, Magnepan, Dynaudio and JBL
Yes, it's true that Skywalker Ranch has a pair of N802s in their theater.
They also use M&K THX speakers and Teufel Theater 10
Yes, it's true that B&W develops their own drivers and has state of the art facilities in which to do it.
So does Dynaudio, Dali, Magnepan, Infinity etc...
Yes, they're better than a pair of JBLs from Bestbuy.
True, but that aint hard ;-)
Yes, B&W is a globally respected name for good reasons.
They are good speakers, but they dont live up to the hype. And there are many speakers better.

Not sure if someone has "cracked them up" to be something other than a highly respected World-class loudspeaker developer and manufacturer.
That, they certainly are.

Noone is saying they are bad, but you make them sound like they are the holy grail. AND THAT, THEY CERTAINLY ARE NOT .

[snickelfritz]

Actually, you are inferring from my support of B&W that I see them as the "Holy Grail".
Their speakers are neither better nor worse than a dozen other companies that make high quality audiophile speakers.
I would certainly audition at least a dozen speakers in addition to the N800 if I had $16000 burning a hole in my pocket.

I won't dispute that there are literally dozens of speaker manufacturers that supply the recording industry, but B&W is ubiquitous in the recording industry and are legendary in the speaker industry, for whatever it's worth. It doesn't make them the Holy Grail though; just successful.
And it ain't advertising hyperbole that did it either.
LOL, if that were true, Bose would have an equal stature.

I happen to own a pair of B&Ws, but I certainly wouldn't mind owning Sonus Faber, Paradigm Signature, Vienna, JBL K2, Wilson, etc...
Are any of these speaker manufacturers "what they're cracked up to be?"
Who knows.
I'm sure somebody somewhere on crack still thinks Cerwin Vega "is the Holy Grail".
They RAWK!.

[Florian]

I still disagree to some extend. B&W has the largest marketing machine in the audio indsutry and many young audiophiles buy into it. BOSE and B&W share a lot of marketing strategies and BOSE is definetly at least as popular as B&W. Now i could say that is because of their great advances in technology and design, but you would disagree because they just dont sound good. I definetly think that you can get more for you money if you dont sponsor B&W's marketing machiene.

Flo

[Florian]

I would like add-on something. The question was

"B & W, are they as good as they are cracked up to be?"

The question could be forumalted like this

B&W, are they as good as the hype/commercials suggest?

And the answere is simply no. Yes they are good, but they are not the best in their category. There are better speakers for the same amount of money.

[Peter Duminy]

B&W are amongst the best in their respective categories. History has proved that. The late John Bowers told me "If you build a better product - people will buy it" He lived up to his reputation.

[paul_pci]

wats SVS??

SVS is an online-only dealer/manufacturer of cylinder and box subs which are very popular among members of this and other related boards.

[ryanpreusser]

are they good subs...?

[RGA]

B&W are amongst the best in their respective categories. History has proved that. The late John Bowers told me "If you build a better product - people will buy it" He lived up to his reputation.

Well peter they should hire you back. The speakers have bene getting worse over the years not better and the prices have been going UP not down. FWIW most of the rest of the industry has done the exact same thing which is why I can keep recommending the B&W 602S3. But the 705 --- c'mon have you heard this for yourself against other speakers for $2300.00Cdn. I mean sorry but it has to be the worst speaker I have heard for $2300.00 Cad. And considering that people know my stance on Paradigm that says a lot.

It just seems like they;re resting on their laurals(SP?) rather than pushing the envelope.

On the other hand and to be fair --- it may be that my preference is interfering with my opinion of B&W. Still the 302 is IMO far superior to the 303 musically -- despite using off the shelf cheap woofer and soft dome tweeter. The new one is good mind you but it's brittle and fatiguing in comparison and costs 50%+ more money. I assume it's for home theater pyrotechnics and not for music -- if so that's fine by me.

[Peter Duminy]

That may well happen - however these chaps have me in their fold (Tannoy & Dynaudio):

http://www.tcgroup.tc/Files/Static/Default.htm

I know of no manufacturer who makes a perfect line of speakers that everyone loves. I personally find the B&W CM2 not to be my cup of tea. One thing I can say is though, is that there are some major developments on the way from the Sussex Downs of Steyning!

[paul_pci]

are they good subs...?

Supposedly if you go by consumer opinion. They're wildly popular and supposedly have good customer service. I'm sure there's more than a few folks here who own one ( I don't) if you can coax them out of their lurking.

www.svsubwoofers.com