B&W 703 Floorstanders

[Cincy2]

BillyB,

I have owned three pairs of B&W speakers culminating in my current 800D's. Two things to remember. These speakers all take a long time to break in. You didn't say how long you have had them cooking. Second, if you find their upper end harsh, consider changing speaker cables. I have always used Transparent cables with mine and find the combination works very well. If you still don't like the sound.....www.Audiogon.com.

[theaudiohobby]

What the hell are you talking about - I HAVE heard the Quad 63. Misconstrued what review? - JNR's?, Hi Fi choice? The review from Hi-fi Choice on Elac is stated right there. FACT JNR bought the Audio Note E/SE and bottom line is that this IS the speaker of his choice and IS the speaker he owns as of today's date as i just replied to him. Your dancing around the fact anywhich way you can - cannot deny that fact. Not that his choice is gospel as I'd probably be in the "group that disagrrees with him" on the cd replay since I have directly heard both the 777ES and the SCD1 and at that time the system was set-up by Sony themselves to demonstrate how wonderful the technology was (at Commercial Electronics where they know more about system set-up than some hack on a forum ever would). But he is hardly the only one -- I know of a number of people who've had panels and now own AN speakers - but then it's not terribly surprising i just find out when all the panels pour into Soundhounds used section that yes they traded them in for AN.

Ohh and the 802D you love so much came out pretty lousy in the Stereophile measurements section -- upper mid problem treble concern and a hint at brightness. Gee what a surprise that i said the same thing several months ago and you go one a tirade that it was the amps fault. Stereophile is very good at covering for the problems (after all without their advertising the rag would be out of business) so they say to make sue the room is dead blah blah blah. Always an excuse for their speakers.

And I'm still waiting for you to put your money behind the B&W logo -- trade all your speakers in and get one. Why? Not good enough for you to own right? Recommend what YOU would personally stand behind.

I don't care if you like Quad -- I get why people like it - it imprints a certain presentation on recordings that some will find holographioc. I personally just find it hollow.

Big yawn, you are indeed a schizophrenic character..I see that beginnig to take temporary leave of your senses again. Before you misconstrue another post, read JNR's post more carefully.., he was talking about VSE modified SACDP, Have you heard one? I thought so. By the way, I own an SCD1 and VSE L5 modified DVP9000ES, so I know the differences but you meanwhile are out of your depth. You have neither heard the ELAC, the Genelec 8040 or the ESL 57, and sole listening experience with a used ESL 63 and then only in a store audition. Frankly I do not care whether some folks who owned panels, now own ANs, there are a variety of reasons why folks change speakers, in JNR case, he sold the stacked Quad because of space limitations. So far, all I can see from you are desperate attempts to escape from the cage you hemmed yourself in.

As for the Stereophile review, try to build another mountain out of molehill again...read more carefully, it says that it may sound bright in an undamped room.

PS: Follow your own advice, ignore the press and listen for yourself.

[Florian]

Hey there TAH (whats your real name anyway?),

your level 5 modded 9000ES is from Vacuumstate Electronics right? I know Allen personally, and had his realtime pre amp and power amps here and they are out of this world. Him and his engineer both own Apogee Scintillas. When your in Switzerland let me know and we can do a session alltogether.

Cheers

Flo

[lomarica]

Just another thought Topspeed.Many years ago a highly regarded audio shop owner told me that the better speakers(under $4000) were usually 2-way in design and quite often the smaller stand size speaker.I was a novice and didn't think a smaller speaker with less drivers would be adequate.He persuaded me to buy a pair of Proac 2-way stand speakers with Rotel components.The Proacs were simply great speakers even to my untrained ear.His argument was that 2-way speakers in this price range were usually better then a larger 3-way speaker.The speakers would have better quality drivers and a 2 way(or 21/2) arrangement would produce a better overall sound then a comparibly priced 3 way.These Proacs at $1300 seemed to echo that.They were incredible, even putting out exceptional bass for a small speaker.Proac's approach is to use less drivers but achieve great sound with higher quality drivers,crossovers,cabinet design,etc.If I decide to replace my 703's, I was thinking of downsizing to a high quality 2-way again.I miss the Proacs. What is your opinion about speaker choices under $3000.Do you agree that you get better quality sound out of a high end 2-way than a bigger 3-way with more drivers.I'm not a huge bass fan so the dropoff in bass with smaller speakers doesn't phase me.I know this isn't a simple question but I'd like to get your opinion.Thanks

I recently replaced my large 4 driver floor speakers for small 2 driver shelf speakers and am very pleased. I won't even mention the speaker (I did stay with the same brand) because the post will degrade into too much detailed speaker comparisons, But the two way have much better imaging and they just disappear in the room which I like. In fact one night watching a movie I forgot to turn my center channel on and it took me a long time to notice because the sound from the left and right front speakers was imaging so good.

[RGA]

he was talking about VSE modified SACDP, Have you heard one? I thought so.

And he also said his friends would disagree. You are correct I have not heard it. Which makes my blind challenge to you more interesting -- as I said you could use ANY source you wish.

By the way, I own an SCD1 and VSE L5 modified DVP9000ES, so I know the differences but you meanwhile are out of your depth.

Irrifutably prove what those differences are.

You have neither heard the ELAC, the Genelec 8040 or the ESL 57,

Never claimed to - you have never heard the AN E or the J or the K/Spe. Yoou spent pages blasting Audio Note before EVER hearing anything from them -- so please Mr. Pot stop calling me black.

and sole listening experience with a used ESL 63 and then only in a store audition.

And everyone who knows everything about Quad tells me this is the one with the most bass from that period - my comment on the 57 was gee it must have less bass. Store audition? What does that have to do with anything -- it's STILL a room - why do you assume all homes are better than all professionally treated store showrooms? That's odd.

Frankly I do not care whether some folks who owned panels, now own ANs, there are a variety of reasons why folks change speakers, in JNR case, he sold the stacked Quad because of space limitations. So far, all I can see from you are desperate attempts to escape from the cage you hemmed yourself in.

So why would he buy lousy replacements - that's what you attempt to imply. The speaker is not built to operate in normal rooms so yes space and positioning is always used as an excuse. Call me in a year when you've moved on from your Elac - oops already did then Genelic oops again and now the old Quads - what a surprise that you're interested in gadgetry than music reproduction - but that's your business.

As for the Stereophile review, try to build another mountain out of molehill again...read more carefully, it says that it may sound bright in an undamped room.

Ohh but that was Atkinson covering by ASSUMING they'd be better in a damped room. See he does that an aweful lot -- when a big advertiser's speaker measures crappily he says "they would be better in a damped room - of course why does he not measure them in a damped room to make sure? N'ah. And then when it's a product that does not pay hundreds of thousands per year in ad space then it's the speaker's fault for the lesser measurement.

I did not read the review -- From what I and others heard of the new diamonds -- bright is a certainty - I suppose if you put lots of drapes on all the walls and have all the walls and ceilings covered wall to wall in acoustic foam and and double up your carpets and throw blankets over the stereo and your head and then wear ear muffs you would reduce the brightness somewhat.

[Florian]

Why dont you make a blind listening test offer that is doable?

[theaudiohobby]

Why dont you make a blind listening test offer that is doable?

Thanks for chiming in with some common sense

[RGA]

I may not do the test against the Quad 63 because they are no longer made and that would require speakers being lugged around the world.

Though I may be able to a similar test with the Maggie 3.6 now that Soundhounds carries both lines. the subjective approach would be to start in January 2006 till the end of 2006 and see how many Maggies sold versus how many AN speakers of the same price sold. Or to have listeners - even if not buying - to see which they would prefer buying if they had the money -- If I ran a store I would carry Magnepan because I like what they do. I'd far rather put the AN up against speakers I think are overpriced junk like the B&W's than put them up against speaker I like like the Maggies.

I can at least see and totally understand why a consumer would want to listen to and purchase a Magnapan loudspeaker -- the 700 series from B&W is another matter.

[Florian]

the subjective approach would be to start in January 2006 till the end of 2006 and see how many Maggies sold versus how many AN speakers of the same price sold

This would be idiotic since some people are like you and prefer a resonating, colored boomy box that sounds the same no matter where you place it in the room.

Damn and i promised myself i wouldnt say it. Ok never mind, i will be quiet now.

[BillyB]

BillyB,

I have owned three pairs of B&W speakers culminating in my current 800D's. Two things to remember. These speakers all take a long time to break in. You didn't say how long you have had them cooking. Second, if you find their upper end harsh, consider changing speaker cables. I have always used Transparent cables with mine and find the combination works very well. If you still don't like the sound.....www.Audiogon.com.

One of the first things I tried to improve sound was upgrade my speaker wire.I purchased 4 conductor solid core wire in order to bi-wire the speakers.My local audio dealer suggested the brand(don't remember which one it is).He knew I was unhappy with the 703's and felt it might help.I was surprised it wasn't stranded wire.Was a solid core cable the right call?It didn't correct my complaints with the sound.I then upgraded to different interconnects from the same dealer.He sold me cables which they specifically try when brightness is a symptom.(again I don't know brand so I know you can't help me here). I noticed only a slight improvement in sound from the interconnect change.My speakers are two years old.While I don't use them much because I don't enjoy listening to them,I would think 2 years of even moderate use is a sufficient brake-in period.I'd like to point out that my sound complaints aren't subtle, these 703's are brutal in my system.Thanks for the reply.

[theaudiohobby]

First off, your logistics of your wager are daft, I live in London, UK and you like British Colombia, Canada. Come up with something that is financially and logistically viable..

As for the VSE modified SACDP, you have not heard it, so shut up you have nothing to offer.

As for the Audio Note speakers, most of my comments have been on the AN-K which I bought and auditioned in my system. You on the hand cannot say that of any the speaker that you have critiqued. To refresh your memory, I have pulled one the old threads, where we discussed the E, so that you can get your facts right.

If have never heard the ESL-57, what business do you have criticizing its sound. You are ignorant about the Quads, the ESL 989 is the largest, and you auditioned a used ESL-63, of no known provinance, long after it had been updated with the ESL 988. It is a store audition of a speaker you are not familiar with, so you are hardly expected to know how to optimise the sound and it is clear from posts that your listening session with them was not extensive by any means, and from your comments you said you were not sure the ESL-63s that you heard were in good working condition. Looking at your post, you have changed your tune, so that you can spue some your spite.

By the way, I did not critique the Audio Notes, I recommended that BillyB should listen to them and still do, since I recall that they have a less upfront sound and are not bright. You on the other hand, used JNR acquisition of AN E/Se? as an excuse to bitterly critique the Quad ESL-57 which you have never heard.

As for moving on from speakers, your idiocy betrays you again, You have moved on from the AN Ks to the AN-J, in your wager you propose do listening test with an AN-E, which presumes that you will gladly have it, if given the opportunity. Wrt to the ELACs and the Genelecs, are you privy to what happened to any of the pieces of gear in my system, your comments are both presumptuous and idiotic.

what a surprise that you're interested in gadgetry than music reproduction - but that's your business.

This from someone who goes around audio stores, listening to pieces of equipment that he is not least interested in buying. Hello! wake and smell the roses!

I note that you said that you did not read the Stereophile B&W802D review, yet you referenced it in your post : ,How typical.

[BillyB]

I recently replaced my large 4 driver floor speakers for small 2 driver shelf speakers and am very pleased. I won't even mention the speaker (I did stay with the same brand) because the post will degrade into too much detailed speaker comparisons, But the two way have much better imaging and they just disappear in the room which I like. In fact one night watching a movie I forgot to turn my center channel on and it took me a long time to notice because the sound from the left and right front speakers was imaging so good.

I'm glad you're enjoying them.Good sound is all that matters.I also happen to love the look of a nice 2-way monitor on real nice stands.

[theaudiohobby]

One of the first things I tried to improve sound was upgrade my speaker wire.I purchased 4 conductor solid core wire in order to bi-wire the speakers.My local audio dealer suggested the brand(don't remember which one it is).He knew I was unhappy with the 703's and felt it might help.I was surprised it wasn't stranded wire.Was a solid core cable the right call?It didn't correct my complaints with the sound.I then upgraded to different interconnects from the same dealer.He sold me cables which they specifically try when brightness is a symptom.(again I don't know brand so I know you can't help me here). I noticed only a slight improvement in sound from the interconnect change.My speakers are two years old.While I don't use them much because I don't enjoy listening to them,I would think 2 years of even moderate use is a sufficient brake-in period.I'd like to point out that my sound complaints aren't subtle, these 703's are brutal in my system.Thanks for the reply.

Hi Billy B,

Life is too short to hold on to a speaker you do not like, I have been there before, it is an unfortunate reality that auditioning a speaker in a store is no guarantee that you will like them longterm, this is especially true if you auditioned them with inappropriate material, material that glossed over there flaws, a mistake many folks make. My suggestion is to make it down as experience, listen to some speakers that are not as upfront or as bright as the 703 such as Spendor, etc, or simply take the easy way out and go back and get the Proacs that you liked.

[StanleyMuso]

One of the first things I tried to improve sound was upgrade my speaker wire.I purchased 4 conductor solid core wire in order to bi-wire the speakers.My local audio dealer suggested the brand(don't remember which one it is).He knew I was unhappy with the 703's and felt it might help.I was surprised it wasn't stranded wire.Was a solid core cable the right call?It didn't correct my complaints with the sound.I then upgraded to different interconnects from the same dealer.He sold me cables which they specifically try when brightness is a symptom.(again I don't know brand so I know you can't help me here). I noticed only a slight improvement in sound from the interconnect change.My speakers are two years old.While I don't use them much because I don't enjoy listening to them,I would think 2 years of even moderate use is a sufficient brake-in period.I'd like to point out that my sound complaints aren't subtle, these 703's are brutal in my system.Thanks for the reply.

original question to so much mud slinging. I'm sorry you've had no joy in taming the 703s. I played around with my system over the weekend and played all types of music at all volume settings, and although I admit its still not the perfect speaker, I'm just not replicating what you described. Perhaps I was lucky, perhap the company fixed up the problems, as one poster suggested, by the time I bought mine - after all, there is a years difference between mine and yours. On the other hand, perhaps its just the differences in our rooms. I moved the speaker a little further from the walls yesterday, and I think the overall sound improved even further. As an experiment, do you have the ability to temporarily move your system into a different room to find out if it is a room specific problem? Otherwise, since you are so unhappy with it, I guess there's no alternative but to replace them. I wish you luck.

[BillyB]

Hi Billy B,

Life is too short to hold on to a speaker you do not like, I have been there before, it is an unfortunate reality that auditioning a speaker in a store is no guarantee that you will like them longterm, this is especially true if you auditioned them with inappropriate material, material that glossed over there flaws, a mistake many folks make. My suggestion is to make it down as experience, listen to some speakers that are not as upfront or as bright as the 703 such as Spendor, etc, or simply take the easy way out and go back and get the Proacs that you liked.

You're probably right.I haven't enjoyed my system in 2 years and It bothers me to no end!!I don't even feel like firing it up.Every listening session becomes a demo as I end up analyzing the sound instead of enjoying the music.I'm going to straighten it out if it kills me!

[BillyB]

Your question is valid as I am unable to move these speakers more than 6" off the wall due to room constaints. That very well could be at least some of the problem. My listening room is really the only place I can comfortably use my stereo, so I don't know if moving the whole set-up is worth the trouble.I do have a finished playroom in my basement which of course my kids have taken over.The room is 16'long X 10'deep with under 7' sheetrock ceiling and paneling on the walls.Again the big floorstanders would have to be close to the wall or they'd get trashed by my kids.Anyway I'm glad you're able to enjoy the 703's in your system.Thanks for the reply.

[Florian]

Dont worry you have not started a war. People are catching onto what i have been saying for ages and that is that RGA is full of it on most post. A simple advertiser who will cut down any and all speakers that someone likes while posting half backed reviews and opinions he collects aroun the internet and if he cant find anything negative he makes up some bull**** story noone can check and he cant prove it either. I am glad that more people are catching on.

[Florian]

You're probably right.I haven't enjoyed my system in 2 years and It bothers me to no end!!I don't even feel like firing it up.Every listening session becomes a demo as I end up analyzing the sound instead of enjoying the music.I'm going to straighten it out if it kills me!

Yup go back to the Proacs or listen to more speakers. I personally cant stand B&W either, maybe give a different kind of speaker a try?

[StanleyMuso]

Yup go back to the Proacs or listen to more speakers. I personally cant stand B&W either, maybe give a different kind of speaker a try?

I'm beginning to feel like such an outcast.


Actually, knowing my track record for finding new gear, which can last a couple of years for speakers, I might already start preliminary looking around. What goes well with a Musical Fidelity amp for a person who likes classics and jazz?

[Florian]

Well the choice for you is obvious in my opinion. Get a Magnepan MG1.6 or a MG12 depending on the size of your room. www.magnepan.com and once you have them and lived with them for a few years let me know and we can move up the box-less realm. :-)
You can ask me all the questions you want when it comes to the lack of the box.

[Cincy2]

BillyB,

Tranparent speaker cables have an inline "network" of passive components designed to reduce noise and match impedences. They can also tame unruly treble. The price for an 8foot pair can range from affordable all the way up to $30,000 for their signature product. Try to pick up a good pair used. I am fairly certain they will help your situation.

[StanleyMuso]

Well the choice for you is obvious in my opinion. Get a Magnepan MG1.6 or a MG12 depending on the size of your room. www.magnepan.com and once you have them and lived with them for a few years let me know and we can move up the box-less realm. :-)
You can ask me all the questions you want when it comes to the lack of the box.

I have been aware of the advantages (and disadvantages) of electrostatics for years and been tempted on and off a number of times. Indeed, about 25 years ago I owned a set of electrostatic headphones and enjoyed them very much until they went missing. From memory however, they were severely lacking in the bass department and were not comfortable to wear. They were also inconvenient in that they had to be permanently connected to the speaker connection of the amp by way of a special box, so could not be used with other equipment. They were replaced by Senheissers.

As far as electrostatic speakers go, I could never afford them, and did not have the room to accomodate them. The ones I listened to in a local show room (sorry, I don't remember the model), were absolutely huge and hugely expensive - in fact I could have bought a couple of cars for the asking price. I suffer the usual constraints of a family man whose money goes on home and family. Perhaps one day, when they are all grown up and off my hands I might give it a go. But until then, I am constrained to box speakers of about a metre or so in height. For the present, my wife would be most upset if I tried to introduce what she calls "room dividers" into our lounge. Perhaps when my son leaves and takes his pool table with him, I might have the room. I don't know if electrostatics would give me the perfect sound, but all I can say that in all the years I have been involved in this hobby, I have a certain sound in my head which I want to achieve, and have never had the good fortune to find it. By the by, I used to play violin in an ensemble, my wife plays piano, and my children have played clarinet, piano, violin and cello. I attend concerts, classical, jazz and pop all the time, in many venues with different accoustic properties, so know what live sound is. It is very rarely that I can sit back, close my eyes and listen to the recorded concert and think that I am there. That state of realism would be the ideal, but I just don't believe it is achievable. Perhaps it can come close, but I doubt if the recorded sound will ever be totally realistic.

Sorry about the ramble.

[Florian]

Well there is hope in the future. I have a few friends who are married to musicians and have speakers that come extremely close to real. Brads girlfriend plays on a 4 million dollar stradivarius violin in switzerland, Josephs wife is Della Manley sings wonderfully and has a few CD's, Vince's family plays in an orchestra, Trygve Lode's makes movie soundtracks and film clips and there are countless more and they all have one thing in common...PM me for the answere.

-Flo

[pdmonty1965]

I used to like B&W but the 700 series IMO is garbage. Whatever the reviews I have listened to this line several times at several locations and with quality gear. My front runner was B&W as i used to own a pair but my dealer www.soundhounds.com intrioduced me to stuff they sell but also buy for their own homes. B&W's 700 series is so truly bad IME, and following up ont he equally bad CM series that it is really really difficult for me not to compare them to Bose for the affluent. The 705 at $2300.00Cad is a bad speaker IMO and what's worse it's not jsut overpriced it is a good $1700.00 overpriced. At $500.00Cad it would STILL be unremarkable. Bright is the least of the problems.

.....IMO yours is WRONG!

1st - As some in here have correctly inferred any system is only as good as it's weakest link. Example: you can't go out and by a $3000 pair of high end speakers that are "renowned" for their ability to reveal the best or the worst in source material and then pair them with ancient or inferior source components/materials and expect good results! If you've auditioned the 703's and fell in love with them in the store as I did, then that same sound is in fact reproducible in your home assuming you have at your disposal similar or identical equipment, room treatments/geometry etc....period. There's no magical slight of hand going on here...no deception on the part of the sales people.

2nd - if you have assembled a system over the course of "years" chances are you have grown accustomed to the unique sonic signature and it has served mould / bias your sound preferences. Everyone is different...what you call a warm sound, I call muddy...what you call a harsh sound I call revealing. Bottom line is, if you are going to go and buy any new component and add it to your existing system, particularly if your system is fairly old then you'd better be pre-paired to shell out extra $$$ to upgrade your source components and source material as well because technology keeps on rolling and sound evolves because of it. B&W knows this and subsequently are ahead of the curve. IMHO the 703's are an amazing speaker and probably B&W's best price to performance offering...EVER.

[Feanor]

.....IMO yours is WRONG!

1st - As some in here have correctly inferred any system is only as good as it's weakest link. Example: you can't go out and by a $3000 pair of high end speakers that are "renowned" for their ability to reveal the best or the worst in source material and then pair them with ancient or inferior source components/materials and expect good results! If you've auditioned the 703's and fell in love with them in the store as I did, then that same sound is in fact reproducible in your home assuming you have at your disposal similar or identical equipment, room treatments/geometry etc....period. There's no magical slight of hand going on here...no deception on the part of the sales people.

2nd - if you have assembled a system over the course of "years" chances are you have grown accustomed to the unique sonic signature and it has served mould / bias your sound preferences. Everyone is different...what you call a warm sound, I call muddy...what you call a harsh sound I call revealing. Bottom line is, if you are going to go and buy any new component and add it to your existing system, particularly if your system is fairly old then you'd better be pre-paired to shell out extra $$$ to upgrade your source components and source material as well because technology keeps on rolling and sound evolves because of it. B&W knows this and subsequently are ahead of the curve. IMHO the 703's are an amazing speaker and probably B&W's best price to performance offering...EVER.

Hi, pdmonty, and welcome to AR Forums.

I tend to agree that a system is only as good as it's weakest link, but you aren't going to get a rise out of RGA. He bailed from ARF a few years ago in a fit of peak because he was scolded for for a hyperbolic political opinion.