B&W 703 Floorstanders

[BillyB]

Any other B&W 703 owners out there? In my system they have been a huge disappointment. I find them to be very bright and edgy. The FST midrange seems to be too out front especially on vocals.I actually like the woofers and tweeter in the 703.The FST is one of B&W's claims to fame.I have mid priced Rotel components.Are the 703's simply too good for my equipment, or did B&W design a speaker with way too much top end.I listen to raggy rock and pop CD's at a fairly high volume which doesn't help, but my previous speakers were much more forgiving without the listener fatigue I get with the 703's.If you own them I'd love to hear what you think of them. Even though I paid almost $3000 for them, I'd be lying If I said they were a good purchase.Ironically I almost bought the much more laid back 9nt's the 703 replaced. I should have paid much closer attention to the differences between the two.

[topspeed]

Well, if mids are your main concern, I'm not sure the 9nt's would have solved your problem as they utilize the FST as well. Personally, I liked the 7nt's better than the 9's in no small part because of the differences in the transducers. The 9's were definitely more forward and I preferred the 7's overall cohesiveness.

Anywho, my first question would be why did you buy them in the first place? You did audition them extensively, correct? If so, it could be more of room interaction problem. Try repositioning the speakers, adding plants, curtains, carpets, or overstuffed furniture to try to tame the room a bit. Pay attention to first order reflections as they have a dramatic effect on perceived sound quality.

The other issue could be your source. Pop is mixed pretty hot as it is, and a revealing speaker will only exacerbate the problem. Combine this with your 12 year old cd player and I'm not at all surprised your system is brittle sounding. Understand, DAC's and rbcd playback has dramatically improved over the past decade as engineers have come to grips with the format. I'd bet real money that a modern $300 cd/sacd player would flat smoke your old Rotel.

If all your cd's sound bad even after addressing the room acoustics and source, it could very well be the speakers. The good news is that B&W's hold their value better than just about any other mass market speaker. You should have no problem unloading them on audiogon.com without taking too much of a hit.

Sorry to hear about your problems. Hope this helps.

[Pat]

BillyB,

Re-read the second paragraph of what Topspeed had to say.....it will make a huge difference in the sound of speakers. On the other hand I traded off my new Paradigm Studio 40's because their tweeter was too much for me.

[BillyB]

Well, if mids are your main concern, I'm not sure the 9nt's would have solved your problem as they utilize the FST as well. Personally, I liked the 7nt's better than the 9's in no small part because of the differences in the transducers. The 9's were definitely more forward and I preferred the 7's overall cohesiveness.

Anywho, my first question would be why did you buy them in the first place? You did audition them extensively, correct? If so, it could be more of room interaction problem. Try repositioning the speakers, adding plants, curtains, carpets, or overstuffed furniture to try to tame the room a bit. Pay attention to first order reflections as they have a dramatic effect on perceived sound quality.

The other issue could be your source. Pop is mixed pretty hot as it is, and a revealing speaker will only exacerbate the problem. Combine this with your 12 year old cd player and I'm not at all surprised your system is brittle sounding. Understand, DAC's and rbcd playback has dramatically improved over the past decade as engineers have come to grips with the format. I'd bet real money that a modern $300 cd/sacd player would flat smoke your old Rotel.

If all your cd's sound bad even after addressing the room acoustics and source, it could very well be the speakers. The good news is that B&W's hold their value better than just about any other mass market speaker. You should have no problem unloading them on audiogon.com without taking too much of a hit.

Sorry to hear about your problems. Hope this helps.

Thanks for your opinion. I did demo the 703's but should have also been looking at many other speakers in the price range.My lesson learned is simply"if it ain't broke don't fix it" The Proac speakers I replaced were fantastic.I had the right mix of equipment and the sound was special.Upgrading just for the sake of change can be a huge disappointment and waste of money.Lesson Learned!!!!!

[gonefishin]

Thanks for your opinion. I did demo the 703's but should have also been looking at many other speakers in the price range.My lesson learned is simply"if it ain't broke don't fix it" The Proac speakers I replaced were fantastic.I had the right mix of equipment and the sound was special.Upgrading just for the sake of change can be a huge disappointment and waste of money.Lesson Learned!!!!!

Lesson learned? Then ask yourself why your traveling down that road again?





good luck

dan

[BillyB]

Lesson learned? Then ask yourself why your traveling down that road again?





good luck

dan

Now that I've invested $3000 on a speaker upgrade, I don't think spending another $700 to replace a 12 year old obsolete CDP is going down the same road.Of course I wish I bought the CDP first but too late for that.If I'm lucky the new CDP will show off the strengths of the B&W 703's.It's a chance I have to take.

[JohnMichael]

BillyB I feel your pain. When you have lived with a system for a long time and like it but you want to take that next step up it gets tricky. I have a 9 year old CDP and I will be replcaing it soon. I am concerned about throwing the system out of balance. Next I will be shopping for speakers. The few times I have not enjoyed listening to my system is when I had the wrong cables for the componets in use. I lean to changing cables to improve the sound. IMO silver plated copper cables and interconnects are bright. I would also work with speaker positioning others recommended. After all that is a free tweak. Check how you have the speakers toed in. Having the tweeters pointing at your listening position could give you too much high frequency. I would hate for you to take a loss if a simple fix will help.

[BillyB]

Just another thought Topspeed.Many years ago a highly regarded audio shop owner told me that the better speakers(under $4000) were usually 2-way in design and quite often the smaller stand size speaker.I was a novice and didn't think a smaller speaker with less drivers would be adequate.He persuaded me to buy a pair of Proac 2-way stand speakers with Rotel components.The Proacs were simply great speakers even to my untrained ear.His argument was that 2-way speakers in this price range were usually better then a larger 3-way speaker.The speakers would have better quality drivers and a 2 way(or 21/2) arrangement would produce a better overall sound then a comparibly priced 3 way.These Proacs at $1300 seemed to echo that.They were incredible, even putting out exceptional bass for a small speaker.Proac's approach is to use less drivers but achieve great sound with higher quality drivers,crossovers,cabinet design,etc.If I decide to replace my 703's, I was thinking of downsizing to a high quality 2-way again.I miss the Proacs. What is your opinion about speaker choices under $3000.Do you agree that you get better quality sound out of a high end 2-way than a bigger 3-way with more drivers.I'm not a huge bass fan so the dropoff in bass with smaller speakers doesn't phase me.I know this isn't a simple question but I'd like to get your opinion.Thanks

[gonefishin]

Hi BillyB,

I noticed that you've stated several places that you liked your proacs. They're a nice easy sounding speaker. Reading your posts...it seems your still looking for that ProAc sound.
Putting money into a new CDplayer isn't a bad idea. But from reading your posts...I just don't think that's what your looking for.

I know that you do have to come up with some other solution, which keeps the 703's. Maybe a tubed CD player could be the answer to help smooth things out for you.

Hmmm...I'll be right back.

Here's one that I had seen used. It would be good if he could come down a bit...but it may be an option???
*no connection to the player or seller*

good luck,
dan

[topspeed]

What is your opinion about speaker choices under $3000.Do you agree that you get better quality sound out of a high end 2-way than a bigger 3-way with more drivers.I'm not a huge bass fan so the dropoff in bass with smaller speakers doesn't phase me.I know this isn't a simple question but I'd like to get your opinion.Thanks

Yes and no.

A lot depends on the ability of the designer and where it is manufactured. Common sense dictates that higher quality parts are better than lesser quality, therefore it's easy to buy into the argument that less is actually more in the 2 way vs. 3 way debate. However, I'm sure we can both note a few occasions whereas a talented designer has taken mediocre parts and produced magic. In addition, what happens when the parts are made in low-cost areas such as China? I know most "audiophiles" love to turn their noses up at anything from a supposed third world country, but I assure you that a lot of audio products coming from the Far East easily surpass the quality of those from either the "Old World" (or "New World") for that matter. The bottom line is that there are simply too many variables involved to make such a blanket statement, IMO.

To me, the biggest challenge once you venture beyond the realm of 2 ways is the crossover design. Naturally, the more drivers you have, the more ways you have to split the signal (unless you're Reference 3A, which doesn't use crossovers). In a world that considers off-the-shelf transducers from Peerless, Scanspeak, Dynaudio, or Focal as the norm instead of the exception, it's often the talent of the designer and their crossover design that separates the wheat from the chaff.

As for your question regarding what is the best $3K speaker? The honest answer is that I have no idea. I can say that if I were looking for speakers in the $3-4K range, I would want it all. This means I want a speaker that is full range and I really don't care how it does it, whether 2 way, 3 way, ribbon, radialstrahler...whatever. I have a hard time outlaying that kind of coin and ending up with a rig that requires an additional sub out of neccesity. Uhh...no thanks, I'll take the zero.

Some of the speakers that I have heard and will consider when I build my next rig are the Gallo Ref 3, Von Schweikert VR4 and VR4jr, Maggie 3.6, and JML Electra. Right now, the VR4jr's would probably be my first choice although I haven't heard the Ref3 with the plate amp, which I understand makes a profound difference. I would also want to audition speakers from Usher, Tyler Acoustics, Dali, EFE Technologies and AN just off the top of my head. Speakers that aren't my cup 'o tea but you should consider are Vandersteen, Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustics, and Dynaudio. BTW, if you like ProAc, you'd likely enjoy Spendor, Harbeth, and maybe Reference 3A as well.

The key is to not get too wrapped up in the design and instead consider the speaker as a whole. After all, we don't listen to the individual transducers. We listen to the entire speaker, right? As long as your toes are tappin', who cares how they go about it?

Hope this helps.

[lomarica]

Just another thought Topspeed.Many years ago a highly regarded audio shop owner told me that the better speakers(under $4000) were usually 2-way in design and quite often the smaller stand size speaker.I was a novice and didn't think a smaller speaker with less drivers would be adequate.He persuaded me to buy a pair of Proac 2-way stand speakers with Rotel components.The Proacs were simply great speakers even to my untrained ear.His argument was that 2-way speakers in this price range were usually better then a larger 3-way speaker.The speakers would have better quality drivers and a 2 way(or 21/2) arrangement would produce a better overall sound then a comparibly priced 3 way.These Proacs at $1300 seemed to echo that.They were incredible, even putting out exceptional bass for a small speaker.Proac's approach is to use less drivers but achieve great sound with higher quality drivers,crossovers,cabinet design,etc.If I decide to replace my 703's, I was thinking of downsizing to a high quality 2-way again.I miss the Proacs. What is your opinion about speaker choices under $3000.Do you agree that you get better quality sound out of a high end 2-way than a bigger 3-way with more drivers.I'm not a huge bass fan so the dropoff in bass with smaller speakers doesn't phase me.I know this isn't a simple question but I'd like to get your opinion.Thanks

I recently replaced my large 4 driver floor speakers for small 2 driver shelf speakers and am very pleased. I won't even mention the speaker (I did stay with the same brand) because the post will degrade into too much detailed speaker comparisons, But the two way have much better imaging and they just disappear in the room which I like. In fact one night watching a movie I forgot to turn my center channel on and it took me a long time to notice because the sound from the left and right front speakers was imaging so good.

[BillyB]

I recently replaced my large 4 driver floor speakers for small 2 driver shelf speakers and am very pleased. I won't even mention the speaker (I did stay with the same brand) because the post will degrade into too much detailed speaker comparisons, But the two way have much better imaging and they just disappear in the room which I like. In fact one night watching a movie I forgot to turn my center channel on and it took me a long time to notice because the sound from the left and right front speakers was imaging so good.

I'm glad you're enjoying them.Good sound is all that matters.I also happen to love the look of a nice 2-way monitor on real nice stands.

[theaudiohobby]

Any other B&W 703 owners out there? In my system they have been a huge disappointment. I find them to be very bright and edgy. The FST midrange seems to be too out front especially on vocals.I actually like the woofers and tweeter in the 703.The FST is one of B&W's claims to fame.I have mid priced Rotel components.Are the 703's simply too good for my equipment, or did B&W design a speaker with way too much top end.I listen to raggy rock and pop CD's at a fairly high volume which doesn't help, but my previous speakers were much more forgiving without the listener fatigue I get with the 703's.If you own them I'd love to hear what you think of them. Even though I paid almost $3000 for them, I'd be lying If I said they were a good purchase.Ironically I almost bought the much more laid back 9nt's the 703 replaced. I should have paid much closer attention to the differences between the two.

I get the feeling that the very feature that makes the B&W 703 superior to the speaker it replaced is what causing you problems, i.e. superior dispersion. This is probably excerbarated by the Rotels, some of which on the bright side of neutral, do they still have tone controls, if they do use them. If what I read about the Arcams is true, then they seem to have moved away from the laidback sound of old and gotten brighter, but I have yet to listen to any new arcam CDPs, so I cannot confirm this. If your Rotel has tone controls then my advise is to use them to cut the treble output, rather than embarking on an equipment merry go round, trying to use another component to compensate for the perceived weakness of another.

PS: IIRC, Hi-FiChoice made a comment that B&W tweaked the balance of the 703/704? not sure which one, not long after it was introduced after some feedback (I think?) to tame brightness.

[adam01k]

I have a Rotel 1072 HDCD, NAD 216 and a pair of Mission 783s. I have home auditioned the B&Ws and found them to be very nice. I actually prefer my Missions, (I paid $600.00 used) that may be a profound statement but I am tickled with the system I put together. I think your compentry is very compatible, but may be your speaker placement isnt right.
I liked the B&Ws but thought they were a bit overrated.

[gonefishin]

Any other B&W 703 owners out there? In my system they have been a huge disappointment. I find them to be very bright and edgy. The FST midrange seems to be too out front especially on vocals.I actually like the woofers and tweeter in the 703.The FST is one of B&W's claims to fame.I have mid priced Rotel components.Are the 703's simply too good for my equipment, or did B&W design a speaker with way too much top end.I listen to raggy rock and pop CD's at a fairly high volume which doesn't help, but my previous speakers were much more forgiving without the listener fatigue I get with the 703's.If you own them I'd love to hear what you think of them. Even though I paid almost $3000 for them, I'd be lying If I said they were a good purchase.Ironically I almost bought the much more laid back 9nt's the 703 replaced. I should have paid much closer attention to the differences between the two.

,,,
Dan

[gonefishin]

Any other B&W 703 owners out there? In my system they have been a huge disappointment. I find them to be very bright and edgy. The FST midrange seems to be too out front especially on vocals.I actually like the woofers and tweeter in the 703.The FST is one of B&W's claims to fame.I have mid priced Rotel components.Are the 703's simply too good for my equipment, or did B&W design a speaker with way too much top end.I listen to raggy rock and pop CD's at a fairly high volume which doesn't help, but my previous speakers were much more forgiving without the listener fatigue I get with the 703's.If you own them I'd love to hear what you think of them. Even though I paid almost $3000 for them, I'd be lying If I said they were a good purchase.Ironically I almost bought the much more laid back 9nt's the 703 replaced. I should have paid much closer attention to the differences between the two.

,,,
dan

[gonefishin]

Any other B&W 703 owners out there? In my system they have been a huge disappointment. I find them to be very bright and edgy. The FST midrange seems to be too out front especially on vocals.I actually like the woofers and tweeter in the 703.The FST is one of B&W's claims to fame.I have mid priced Rotel components.Are the 703's simply too good for my equipment, or did B&W design a speaker with way too much top end.I listen to raggy rock and pop CD's at a fairly high volume which doesn't help, but my previous speakers were much more forgiving without the listener fatigue I get with the 703's.If you own them I'd love to hear what you think of them. Even though I paid almost $3000 for them, I'd be lying If I said they were a good purchase.Ironically I almost bought the much more laid back 9nt's the 703 replaced. I should have paid much closer attention to the differences between the two.

,,,
dan

[theaudiohobby]

Dan what are you trying to say?

[gonefishin]

Any other B&W 703 owners out there? In my system they have been a huge disappointment. I find them to be very bright and edgy. The FST midrange seems to be too out front especially on vocals.I actually like the woofers and tweeter in the 703.The FST is one of B&W's claims to fame.I have mid priced Rotel components.Are the 703's simply too good for my equipment, or did B&W design a speaker with way too much top end.I listen to raggy rock and pop CD's at a fairly high volume which doesn't help, but my previous speakers were much more forgiving without the listener fatigue I get with the 703's.If you own them I'd love to hear what you think of them. Even though I paid almost $3000 for them, I'd be lying If I said they were a good purchase.Ironically I almost bought the much more laid back 9nt's the 703 replaced. I should have paid much closer attention to the differences between the two.

Dan what are you trying to say?

I'm trying to say...don't ya wish we all had the opportunity to listen and try every speaker we would want.

Audio forums such as this can put you in contact with not only others in your area with similar intrest. But some also may have audio clubs in your area. Where you not only get exposer to new (and different) components...but many times visits, seminars or demonstrations by industry professionals.

It may help...it may not...but there's a good chance it may be fun as well


dan

[gonefishin]

Any other B&W 703 owners out there? In my system they have been a huge disappointment. I find them to be very bright and edgy. The FST midrange seems to be too out front especially on vocals.I actually like the woofers and tweeter in the 703.The FST is one of B&W's claims to fame.I have mid priced Rotel components.Are the 703's simply too good for my equipment, or did B&W design a speaker with way too much top end.I listen to raggy rock and pop CD's at a fairly high volume which doesn't help, but my previous speakers were much more forgiving without the listener fatigue I get with the 703's.If you own them I'd love to hear what you think of them. Even though I paid almost $3000 for them, I'd be lying If I said they were a good purchase.Ironically I almost bought the much more laid back 9nt's the 703 replaced. I should have paid much closer attention to the differences between the two.

Any luck BillyB?


Whatcha thinking?


I could understand if you have a reluctance to order speakers that are only available on-line....or site unheard. But there are some nice "smaller" brands that are good performers. But they could be sooo hard to find for an audition. BUT. But if you do some searches...you could sometimes find an audio board that has a number f members with that said speaker. Of this group...there may be someone that lives in your area that would be more than happy to give you an audition.

So don't discount some of the smaller brands...or internet only brands right away.



What brands do you have in the audio shops near you. Also, as was mentioned before...there could always be some used proacs in your future

happy travels,

dan

[Cincy2]

BillyB,

I have owned three pairs of B&W speakers culminating in my current 800D's. Two things to remember. These speakers all take a long time to break in. You didn't say how long you have had them cooking. Second, if you find their upper end harsh, consider changing speaker cables. I have always used Transparent cables with mine and find the combination works very well. If you still don't like the sound.....www.Audiogon.com.

[BillyB]

BillyB,

I have owned three pairs of B&W speakers culminating in my current 800D's. Two things to remember. These speakers all take a long time to break in. You didn't say how long you have had them cooking. Second, if you find their upper end harsh, consider changing speaker cables. I have always used Transparent cables with mine and find the combination works very well. If you still don't like the sound.....www.Audiogon.com.

One of the first things I tried to improve sound was upgrade my speaker wire.I purchased 4 conductor solid core wire in order to bi-wire the speakers.My local audio dealer suggested the brand(don't remember which one it is).He knew I was unhappy with the 703's and felt it might help.I was surprised it wasn't stranded wire.Was a solid core cable the right call?It didn't correct my complaints with the sound.I then upgraded to different interconnects from the same dealer.He sold me cables which they specifically try when brightness is a symptom.(again I don't know brand so I know you can't help me here). I noticed only a slight improvement in sound from the interconnect change.My speakers are two years old.While I don't use them much because I don't enjoy listening to them,I would think 2 years of even moderate use is a sufficient brake-in period.I'd like to point out that my sound complaints aren't subtle, these 703's are brutal in my system.Thanks for the reply.

[theaudiohobby]

One of the first things I tried to improve sound was upgrade my speaker wire.I purchased 4 conductor solid core wire in order to bi-wire the speakers.My local audio dealer suggested the brand(don't remember which one it is).He knew I was unhappy with the 703's and felt it might help.I was surprised it wasn't stranded wire.Was a solid core cable the right call?It didn't correct my complaints with the sound.I then upgraded to different interconnects from the same dealer.He sold me cables which they specifically try when brightness is a symptom.(again I don't know brand so I know you can't help me here). I noticed only a slight improvement in sound from the interconnect change.My speakers are two years old.While I don't use them much because I don't enjoy listening to them,I would think 2 years of even moderate use is a sufficient brake-in period.I'd like to point out that my sound complaints aren't subtle, these 703's are brutal in my system.Thanks for the reply.

Hi Billy B,

Life is too short to hold on to a speaker you do not like, I have been there before, it is an unfortunate reality that auditioning a speaker in a store is no guarantee that you will like them longterm, this is especially true if you auditioned them with inappropriate material, material that glossed over there flaws, a mistake many folks make. My suggestion is to make it down as experience, listen to some speakers that are not as upfront or as bright as the 703 such as Spendor, etc, or simply take the easy way out and go back and get the Proacs that you liked.

[BillyB]

Hi Billy B,

Life is too short to hold on to a speaker you do not like, I have been there before, it is an unfortunate reality that auditioning a speaker in a store is no guarantee that you will like them longterm, this is especially true if you auditioned them with inappropriate material, material that glossed over there flaws, a mistake many folks make. My suggestion is to make it down as experience, listen to some speakers that are not as upfront or as bright as the 703 such as Spendor, etc, or simply take the easy way out and go back and get the Proacs that you liked.

You're probably right.I haven't enjoyed my system in 2 years and It bothers me to no end!!I don't even feel like firing it up.Every listening session becomes a demo as I end up analyzing the sound instead of enjoying the music.I'm going to straighten it out if it kills me!

[Florian]

You're probably right.I haven't enjoyed my system in 2 years and It bothers me to no end!!I don't even feel like firing it up.Every listening session becomes a demo as I end up analyzing the sound instead of enjoying the music.I'm going to straighten it out if it kills me!

Yup go back to the Proacs or listen to more speakers. I personally cant stand B&W either, maybe give a different kind of speaker a try?