I know you wont like this thread so dont reply

[daviethek]

I have 3 hobbies. Fly-fishing, Oil painting and listening to great music. I am looking at retirement in about 5 years. Combined with all the pains and joys of family life, I know that I will have no problem finding things to do in retirement. Having these kind of interests is not only worthwhile, it is critical to properly transition yourself from the cube farm to the trout stream.

The best feeling I have about the music/stereo hobby is that when I have friends over, they can see and hear my passion for sound reproduction. I'm not so sure they are complimentary when they leave, but when they are here, my gear blows them away.

When I read some of the posts here, I can sense the passion. Some are so passionate about the gear that one wonders if they can still feel the music. Some are critical of what others can or cannot hear. When I read these things I think about being catholic or American citizenship. If you ask 20 people about the basic requirements for each you may get an unbelievable range of answers. even among the catholics.

[Bernd]

I have 3 hobbies. Fly-fishing, Oil painting and listening to great music. I am looking at retirement in about 5 years. Combined with all the pains and joys of family life, I know that I will have no problem finding things to do in retirement. Having these kind of interests is not only worthwhile, it is critical to properly transition yourself from the cube farm to the trout stream.

The best feeling I have about the music/stereo hobby is that when I have friends over, they can see and hear my passion for sound reproduction. I'm not so sure they are complimentary when they leave, but when they are here, my gear blows them away.

When I read some of the posts here, I can sense the passion. Some are so passionate about the gear that one wonders if they can still feel the music. Some are critical of what others can or cannot hear. When I read these things I think about being catholic or American citizenship. If you ask 20 people about the basic requirements for each you may get an unbelievable range of answers. even among the catholics.

A man with taste and depth. Very well said, Sir. Retirement. You have roughly 5 years on me. I, too will have no problem keeping busy.

Peace

Bernd

[Florian]

Is it fair and honest to only recommend the mass market equipment? Is it not fair to spread the word about Quality instead of Quantity and fair Price?

Are panel speakers or horns only for snobs because they are not sold from online retailes or best buy for rock bottom prices with which no company can pay a fair sallery to their employees or buy quality parts from?

I believe that every new members deserves better then the "audioreview standard package", this is a free for all site and the providers should not limit their new members to 4 choices. But in a way they do, the big names on here have a "standard package" that they recommend and any or all other opinions are put to an end by the use of "snob" "arrogant" etc. As usual the masses feel validated by it and join in without having any actual experience or idea what the fundamental discussion is about.

I find this sad, and would hope that ALL members, but esp. the new ones look at more hidden brands that cannot afford to buy advertising on a big site or magazine. In todays world people need to live and this "cheaper is better" or "cheap is just as good" attitude wont help the small buisiness etc. and will not help to give you a better sound!


-Flo

[kexodusc]

Is it fair and honest to only recommend the mass market equipment? Is it not fair to spread the word about Quality instead of Quantity and fair Price?

I think you're missing the point behind a lot of recommendations made at this website.
There's nothing wrong with recommending mass market equipment. If someone asks a question about what $200 a/v receiver they should buy with Prol-logic II processing, you're pretty much limited to mass market. You seem incapable of grasping this concept.

Quality doesn't mean expensive. It means doing the job it was designed to do well. $200 Sony receivers do the job, but fail enough to not be considered great quality. $200 Denon's tend to last a bit longer with fewer faults. To some, they even sound better than Sonys. Therefore higher quality. Understand?
Recommending a $2100 Arcam receiver or $5000 worth of separates as a response to such a question would just be a stupid waste of time. There's a time and a place to make such recommendations, some people are smart enough to know when.

Are panel speakers or horns only for snobs because they are not sold from online retailes or best buy for rock bottom prices with which no company can pay a fair sallery to their employees or buy quality parts from?

Huh? Fair salary? Most of these Best Buy brands actually employ very few people and pay them well enough. They make their money by small profit margins and large volume, not a ridiculously unfair mark-up. But what does that have to do with recommending products?

I believe that every new members deserves better then the "audioreview standard package", this is a free for all site and the providers should not limit their new members to 4 choices. But in a way they do, the big names on here have a "standard package" that they recommend and any or all other opinions are put to an end by the use of "snob" "arrogant" etc. As usual the masses feel validated by it and join in without having any actual experience or idea what the fundamental discussion is about.

Here you go again. The evil "Big Names" are conspiring to promote the junky mass market brands like Paradigm, B&W, and Axiom. Nonsense. Is this any different that the "standard package" responses you give on panel speakers? You're not really that unique in that regard.

You sound like broken record repeating the same crap about big names on this site who only recommend B&W, Paradigm, and Axiom. I dare you prove any so-called "big name" has only recommended those three brands, or that they've only ever recommended ANY BestBuy/mass market brand. You won't be able to and you know it.

Nobody wishes to censor your recommendations. They just wish you had a bit more tact and relevance when making them. A lot of the so called "big names" here have recommended panel speakers, horns, small speaker companies, and other non-mainstream solutions. Comments like the ones you're making in this thread are out of touch with reality, and discredit the value of any advice you would give. You have a lot of audio knowledge you could share constructively, but instead you chose to employ a "mine is better than yours" attitude and approach. It appears you're trying to present yourself as some kind of audio martyr, when at the most, you're just another voice among many.

I find this sad, and would hope that ALL members, but esp. the new ones look at more hidden brands that cannot afford to buy advertising on a big site or magazine. In todays world people need to live and this "cheaper is better" or "cheap is just as good" attitude wont help the small buisiness etc. and will not help to give you a better sound!

That's BS and you know it. If I named a $5000 speaker, I'm sure you could name one for less than $5000 you thought sounded better. What's wrong with trying to get the best sound for the money? Do you make a habbit of buying the second best thing for the money? If you knew there was something better for cheaper, wouldn't you take advantage of that? Thought so.

If I have $2000 to spend on speakers there's no way in hell I want the 3rd best speaker priced at $2000. And if the best speaker cost $1000, why the hell would I spend $2000 on a speaker just line somebody's pockets?

Most of the recommendations here are presented as places to start listening, nothing more. I've only met a few people here that believe they've heard the best speaker possible and constantly push that to other people.

If you're going to make accusations about this site or its members, at least have the balls to list names and examples that aren't pure bull**** made up for no other reason than to make yourself feel like the poor persecuted victim. If you can't back up what you say, don't say it.

[emorphien]

lots of words

Very, very well said and from all my reading I'd say I agree with it completely.

Sometimes it seems almost embarrassing to have Axioms, I've had them for a couple years, so before they entered the "standard recommendations package." I bought them to replace some giant Technics floorstanders when I was in college and since then I've been making significant changes to the rest of my stereo system. I'm finally down to now picking/finding the turntable I want and spending perhaps a considerable sum of money (for me, as a grad student) on one. Perhaps around $500 or a bit more.

But I'm not embarrassed with the Axioms. I listened to a lot when I was shopping, and I tried a few things and the Axioms sounded great to me given the money I had available to spend. Sure, I could spend $1000 on better speakers but I could also spend $1000 on speakers that aren't as good for my uses. There are still some missing components that make my system less than ideal and I hope to button some of that up this summer.

I'm more interested in enjoying my music than worrying about what an elitist with tens of thousands of dollars of equipment is saying about it (or his equipment). I truly wonder where the enjoyment of music ends and the fetichism of equipment begins. I've seen the same thing in photography, when people lose the interest to discuss and critique photographs and have to spend more time fighting and arguing over who makes the better camera or lens or scanner. A certain amount of that kind of debate is healthy, but for some it's fanatical.

Example: My last Speaker purchase comes in three different price bands. I had it explained to me where the money goes and where the differences lay - and then I listened and came up with a decision that suited me and me alone. That is the way to buy. Of course it matters how serious you are about this pastime and how much importance is placed on sound quality and pride of ownership.
I welcome diversity and much rather read about some other members golden find, be that new,second hand or vintage, but please show some imagination.

I did a similar thing. I considered a few price brackets and investigated my options.

I agree that diversity is very important, however there's a limit to how diverse every discussion can get before some of the suggestions just come across simply absurd. If someone's looking to spend $2000 on speakers, chances are $20k speakers aren't an option. However if there's a set of $2300 speakers that shares some design and technology with a $20k speaker that's worth mentioning. Don't just barf up info and specs on that $20k speaker, but give it some relevance by pointing out how that speaker in some small way could be yours. It sounds cheesy, but you'll come across as less of a snob and more helpful because you're providing relevant and realistic suggestions to someone.

[Bernd]

Very well said. And as I have mentioned before it is about the enjoyment of music. And nobody should feel uneasy about what they own. We all started out somewhere, but this hobby is full of pitfalls and sharlatans.
I know what you mean about Photography. I am also interested, in a small way, in that and you're right about the loss of appreciation of a great photograph but the drooling over a Leica or Hasselblad.

It just get's sometimes tideous when the same standard equipment gets recommended over and over again. I happen to like what I own and nobody else needs to like it.When you work hard for something you should be rightly proud of your purchase, but as said before take a good look around of what else is available.

Also in answer to your point about the lower priced products in a range. The ART Emotion is the top of ARTs line up and the start is a slim floorstander called Stilleto. This speaker has experienced the same research as the big gun (the tweeter is based on the previous top of the range model "The Impression"), and in my humble opinion it wipes the floor with any sub
£ 1000.00 speaker that I have heard. It is trully magical, images like you wouldn't believe with incredible dynamics, just a bit light on the bass, but that is to be expected.

Peace

Bernd