I hereby quit !!

...or strong response is tantamount to picking a fight IYO?...

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Originally Posted by Florian

It seems that you are out to pick a fight, sorry to disapoint you

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That speaks volumes, at least to me...

jimHJJ(...as earlier, bon voyage...)

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Originally Posted by GMichael

I do like to blast the R&R from time to time. But I also like jazz as well. I guess I'll have to listen and think about it for a bit. The WAF shouldn't be a problem this time. These are going down stairs along with my pool table. I'm being kicked out of the family room. hahaha... So the basement is MINE.

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The basement is the place to be :p I listen to mostly Orchestral Metal and Symphonic Metal. Ocasionally Pipe Organ music and classical along with Soft Rock or Hard Rock.

-Flo

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Originally Posted by Resident Loser

...or strong response is tantamout to picking a fight IYO?...



That speaks volumes, at least to me...

jimHJJ(...as earlier, bon voyage...)

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Resident Loser Give it a break I ask Flo some advice and in return Im learning and benefiting from it.Let bygone be bygone.Go and bark somebody else tree.Pat.P

Flo Thanks again for the advice ,know I have work to do to improve my system.Who says you cant show a old dog a new trick!Your advice on crossover was most informing.Pat.P

This has turned into the Flo's advice thread. Time for a high priced place. Out of my league.

Flo is showing a lot of maturity by not getting into a pissing fight with you. I applaud him for it.

A non-Hershon fight might be a nice change of pace. LOL
Get it on!

Actually the better one understands High End the better he will understand the lower priced equipment too. The basic functionality is the same (drivers, magnets, crossovers etc...) just the amount of care and quality that goes into these products are different.

-Flo

Little by little it will grow. Thanks for your help Flo. I appreciate how you can help with $500 speaker decisions even though you are removed from that level personally. I do like how the Maggies can be upgraded up to a full year. Something for me to keep in mind. My only real concern with them is the dispersion. But since they will be going into a large room I am hoping that it will not matter.

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Originally Posted by GMichael

Little by little it will grow. Thanks for your help Flo. I appreciate how you can help with $500 speaker decisions even though you are removed from that level personally. I do like how the Maggies can be upgraded up to a full year. Something for me to keep in mind. My only real concern with them is the dispersion. But since they will be going into a large room I am hoping that it will not matter.

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Your welcome !

The dispersion is not really bad, but one needs to sit in the middle to get the right effect. What model are you considering?

-Flo

PS: I have had quite a few Maggies and still have one ;-)

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Originally Posted by PAT.P

Resident Loser Give it a break I ask Flo some advice and in return Im learning and benefiting from it.Let bygone be bygone.Go and bark somebody else tree.Pat.P

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...ask your question in the proper forum...this is "site feedback" or hadn't you noticed...and number two, since Florian is a "moderator" he most certainly should have nipped it in the bud...he carps about quitting because there's no one to play with at his level, dodges responses to that premise and holds court to entertain questions that have absolutely no reason to be here.

So' I'll tell you what, go P!$$ up a rope...

jimHJJ(...or into the wind...)

Unfortunately I will have to start small. For now it will have to be a pair of MMG, a MMGC and a pair of MMGW for surround. Later, another pair of MMGW's for the rear. Hopefully the MMG's will get traded in for MG12 or MG1.6 depending on the $$ available at that time.
This room will also have my pool table in it, so sitting in one place isn't going to happen much. But if the pool table is on the other end of the room there should be more dispersion by time the sound reaches that end of the room right? If not then I may have to research alternatives. I do like the sound of the maggies very much though. I see a few other electrostatic speakers that have more dispersion. But their prices are out of my reach right now.

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Originally Posted by GMichael

Unfortunately I will have to start small. For now it will have to be a pair of MMG, a MMGC and a pair of MMGW for surround. Later, another pair of MMGW's for the rear. Hopefully the MMG's will get traded in for MG12 or MG1.6 depending on the $$ available at that time.
This room will also have my pool table in it, so sitting in one place isn't going to happen much. But if the pool table is on the other end of the room there should be more dispersion by time the sound reaches that end of the room right? If not then I may have to research alternatives. I do like the sound of the maggies very much though. I see a few other electrostatic speakers that have more dispersion. But their prices are out of my reach right now.

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The MMG will be fine, but remember that they cannot play very loud or have lots of bass. Actually the have very fast and acurate bass, but not very punchy. The dispersion should be fine on a bigger distance. Will you use a subwoofer with it?

-Flo

Yes, I do plan on having a sub. I like my base so I have budgeted more for it. I like the Sunfire Super Junior.

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Originally Posted by GMichael

Flo is showing a lot of maturity by not getting into a pissing fight with you. I applaud him for it.

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He says he wants to quit...so let him...that's what this thread is all about anyway...

jimHJJ(...stand over there next to Pat P. will ya'...)

P.S. I think it was around post #21 where the thread turned into the "I am Florian, hear me roar" show...prior to that, many folks wished him a good trip...

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Originally Posted by GMichael

Yes, I do plan on having a sub. I like my base so I have budgeted more for it. I like the Sunfire Super Junior.

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The Sunfire is a very good choice, and also a Velodyne HGS 10 or small Rel is great.

:-)

Thanks, I'll look into those before I make a purchase.

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Originally Posted by Resident Loser

...ask your question in the proper forum...this is "site feedback" or hadn't you noticed...and number two, since Florian is a "moderator" he most certainly should have nipped it in the bud...he carps about quitting because there's no one to play with at his level, dodges responses to that premise and holds court to entertain questions that have absolutely no reason to be here.

So' I'll tell you what, go P!$$ up a rope...

jimHJJ(...or into the wind...)

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Resident Loser Im the one that ask him advice on a pair of towers I have .He gave me is input on the spec,crossover ,and bi-wiring .Why are you starting to criticize or trying to start a fight ? Im sorry if it turn to be what it became, not Flo fault but mine.Pat.P

...it started at post #21(which is why I mentioned it) and had nothing to do with you...you showed up at #59 and funny thing, had pretty much the same sort of "take-a-hike" attitude re: his snobbish, high-end, condescending manner...it's not your fault, other people(both mods) changed the direction of the thread from the "I quit" mode to whatever it has become.

Again up 'til #21(and even therafter) many folks just gave him a big wave good-bye...

IMNSHO, it was a flaccid cry for attention on his part, as he sought some validation for his existence here...tsk! tsk! Nobody's paying attention...waaahhh!!!

jimHJJ(...and after he got new gear and everything...)

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

I hope you haven't considered any of my responses as "beating up on you", but you'll have to admit that chances are very high that AN will somehow work it's way into the discussion with your posts. :)

rw

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Well it probably will only because I have logged the msot recent time on them -- it's pretty hard not to bring the line you know into a discussion when referencing some topic. Especially when it comes to posts like "Standmounts have no bass" or "I need a high efficency speaker that will work close to a wall or in a corner." It is pretty tough becaue on the first I have to use them as an example to counter the generalization and ont he secondquite frankly I have heard no others. If you look at most posts on AA where posts on speakers come up I say nothing -- posts such as the examples I have given here is usually where I make a suggestion. If you look at other posters they will often recommend the same or similar products eveyr thread -- Magnapanners and Green Mountain Audio circulate routine. Indeed, some guys ask a question " i need a smaller speaker that can go close to walls can play loud hard rock" So someone suggests the MMG? Hell he 1.6 can't do this so there are a lot of people posting their speaker no matter what the post is asking for -- I try not to do that. If someone wants a specific thing and my number one speaker doesn't fit the bill it won't get mentioned. then someomne else will bring it up and I'll certainly defend the misinformation printed.

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Originally Posted by Florian

The best crossover point is no crossover point or only one... [right RGA ;-)]
But we can make up for that by having crossover points in regions were our ear does not notice it much. For instance on the VMPS RM30 the crossover points are 166Hz and 7Khz. Which means that in the biggest part of the audiable range there is no crossover and all drivers are identical which gives you perfect transition. If you have a break in the 3KHz range and move from one driver to another you will not have a smooth transition. Now some speakers do this better than others, but it would be best to have a x-over at something below 500Hz and above 5Khz in order to prevent that.

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Well no it's not where it crosses over that is the only consideration because if the drvier is being asked to fill a huge range in the middle then chances are it's goiong to beam somewhere or cause some other problem. And it depends on the ear that is doing the noticing. You can break at 3khz or 4khz if the drivers are finely aligned such that you don't notice it -- this range is typically chosesn because the drivers are not under duress. Part of the problem with B&W and several ex-owners and compeitors and engineers dislike is the 4khz crossover chosen by B&W on most of their speakers -- the problem isn;t the crossover it's that the kevlar beams and sounds fatiguing in the upper part of its passband. It gives a "detailed" sound and more perceived treble information but many after a while find it fatiguing. If they used a better or different tweeter that could go lower the kevlar may have less work to do.

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Originally Posted by RGA

Well it probably will only because I have logged the msot recent time on them -- it's pretty hard not to bring the line you know into a discussion when referencing some topic.

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You make good points in your response. Here again, it's just a mild tease on your devotion to the line. I've never heard ANs as there is no Atlanta dealer and neither of my reviewer friends has gotten a pair.

FWIW, I prefer stand mounting my Double Advents as well for a smoother low end and better image size.

rw

All

Advice is like an A-hole everyone's...

First of all taking the advice on a sound system should be about the figuring out what a person likes and determining if their listening experience matches your own. There are some comments made here by Flo that I strongly disagree with -- indicating that the B&W 800 series should not be compared to Wilson or Apogee or whatever else Flo likes is IMO wrong -- or that a 5k system cannot be as high end as a $20k one. Maybe it's because Flo is 22 and he associates price with quality (only up to the point he can afford then any more money spent is a waste) but this line of opinion is not what many people would agree with and certainly not me. Certainly you CAN spend 20K and get a better system than a $5k system...but what is better is going to be quite a lot different depending what you want from a system. I can spend $19.5k on a front end and run them through a $500.00 Bose. Or I could have a well balanced system at $5k running Magnepan 1.6 and some Rotel for $5k.

No matter the price there are speakers I don't care for and would not buy. Contrary to what Flo is saying I have heard the what is considered to be the best musically sounding Apogee in the Duetta a pricey but not really pricey speaker and I know of a few B&W's that I would take over it or any planar stat I've heard starting with the model Nautilus http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...del%20Nautilus which is of course way more expensive but nevertheless it is in the 800 series range according to B&W. The Matrix 805 I preferred to the Duetta as well.

I am very leary when people make this kind of price generalization and one who seems to imply he's heard every speaker on the planet at 22. With what is the question? Not all gear is well suited to the equipment running it for a start.

I just auditioned Corwin99's Gershman Acoustics X1-Sub1 and his Audio Note K/Spe which musically is IMO me much better than the 4-6 times the price Wilson Sophias. Corwin was Running some modest Oddysey Monoblocks for about $3k and what we mainly auditioned a Sonici Frontiers (I believe) Line 1 preamp which about 10 years old and a Sony 555ES source. The Sophia was running $50+k worth of Krell and Mark Levinson in a BETTER professionally set-up room. Corwin's room had open halls couches in the way the speakers beside each other - not ideal due to sympathetic vibrations and less than ideal positioning.

And DESPITE all of that you'd have to be tone deaf IMO to take the Wilson Krell system -- it's more impressive looking and it has a huge stickker price to brag about and it sounded good but better it sure was not. the Gershman's have a similar design approach (and similar look) but integrates and sounds more cohesive and like real music. IMO the K is better than both of them but doesn't have the bass depth - but on double Bass of the tracks we played I felt it sounded more realistic at what bass it did present even with SS gear we were using.

This goes across lines to amps and preamps -- the weakest sounding amp to me on the day was a Musical Fidelity power amp(and whatever preamp they had running it) which I felt was no better than the modded Sonic Impact Class T amp you can buy for $30.00. The MF no doubt was well over a thousand dollars.

There are speakers and systems that are designed for gear heads who like to talk about the gear -- I'm less interested in all of that -- I used to be but I really don't care to talk about audiophile buzzwords. It starts for me and ends for me about the music reproduced - at 22 it's about how Cool the bass guitar sounds out of a speaker and how great the speaker can rattle the wall or how extended the treble is. None of this stuff is music reproduction it's hi-fi. High End is a meaningless term which may be called High Priced.

If by High End you mean very realistic music reproducers well that is
1) Subjective (as not everyone will agree)
2) Next to impossible to judge objectively (not everyone agrees on the measured response as indicators of results)

For example under this High End construction I do not consider the Sophia or the Duetta, or the N804, N801, High End. I do consider the Dane 52Se Audio Note AX Two, Gershmans high end because it to me sounds palpable non articficial. The Duetta's downfall is also its greatest attribute -- the riobbon tweeter. It is a supremely clean fast open transparent tweeter - but never for one second do I believe it is anything other than a tweeter. The Gershman's tweeter is less open less extended almost subdued but it also sounds cohesive with what the other drivers are doing...and has solid if a little overblown bottom end. At the end of the day it's going to be Number 1 and no one on a forum can say which design is going to sound better or worse to you - and price is not an indicator at all. Even from the same company people prefer lower models -- I preferred the CDM 7NT to the 9NT etc.

You are the same age as my son. Your outbursts are forgiven, my boy, for you can't help yourself. It is the fault of all youth to believe they know everything. You may be clever in the ways of electronic technology, but a lot more awaits you in your life before men can call you wise. Please don't get disheartend and know that good advice is always appreciated.

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Originally Posted by StanleyMuso

You are the same age as my son. Your outbursts are forgiven, my boy, for you can't help yourself. It is the fault of all youth to believe they know everything. You may be clever in the ways of electronic technology, but a lot more awaits you in your life before men can call you wise. Please don't get disheartend and know that good advice is always appreciated.

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I am sure i have a LOT to learn in that regard :p