To Hell In A Hand Basket

[Dusty Chalk]

music

1. The science and the art of tones, or musical sounds, i. e., sounds of higher or lower pitch, begotten of uniform and synchronous vibrations, as of a string at various degrees of tension; the science of harmonical tones which treats of the principles of harmony, or the properties, dependences, and relations of tones to each other; the art of combining tones in a manner to please the ear.


musician

One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.

One skilled in the art or science of music; esp., a skilled singer, or performer on a musical instrument.

According to these definitions DC is wrong: a cat walking on the keyboard is NOT making music because it lacks the harmonic principles and patterns associated with music.

That was intended as more of a hypothetical question -- my stance is that the cat is not a musician, because it lacks intent. Whether or not the result is music is outside the scope of my ability to think right now (been iterating all day).

Funny that they say "...esp., a skilled singer..." and you insist on spin-doctoring that particular phrase to reinforce what you said, when in actuality it pretty unequivocally proves to me that you are wrong -- singers are musicians by this definition. Notice they said "skilled" -- people who write dictionaries are pretty particular about what they say and what they don't. They didn't say, "...esp. a singer who is also skilled in other areas...", they said, "...skilled singer..." with the meaning that singer is skilled as a singer, which is exactly what I've been saying all along -- the singer must be able to sing above a certain thresholed of ability. QED. Game set match. Checkmate. I win. You lose. Please insert two more quarters.

WRT the word "pleasing" -- that's kind of a vague term. Since I hang out with goths a lot, the question arose, what is it I like about "that scene". And the answer I came up with is, "I find beauty in darkness" and that I enjoy the company of others who find beauty in non-traditional places.

Also, I dig freaky chicks.

Some people watch horror movies -- they like to be scared. They find this "pleasing", but not in the traditional "sweet-tooth" "finding a good parking space" kind of pleasing, but rather it evokes within them an extreme emotion that they desire to replicate.

In that sense, someone finds rap pleasing (and, dare I say it, musical). So context is important. When you say, "rap isn't music", it depends who you're talking to. When you're talking to yourself, you can say, "Armadillos onsebegotten giraffe sublimage", because you understand what you're talking about. But when you're talking to someone else, (some of) these words have specific meaning, and unless you say things that are mutually agreed upon, you will be wrong.

The societal agreed upon definition of rap is that it is music.

Go to this page, and then click on the 5th selection and click go. Rap means to perform rap music (kind of a circular definition), but it still says that it is music. (Sort of like saying Picasso liked to paint things a blue colour -- redundant, but underlines that blue is a colour.)

Wow. Do you think you're vesting mebbe a little too much in this debate Jay?

Funny how people say that only when they don't want to hear what he has to say. (And I include myself in that group.) When I agree with him, I'm like, "you go, Jay!"

Anyway, I think the original statement at the core of this thread simply expressed displeasure at who the Grammys selected for their awards rather than attempting to start some lofty debate over what constitutes "music."

Who cares? The conversation goes where it goes.

Having said that, the Grammies are irrelevent on the basis of talent. It's all about commercial exposure and record sales, ex. the Milli Vanilli fiasco. I stopped paying attention to industry award shows (including the Oscars, for the most part) a long time ago. If anyone thinks that winning a Grammy is representative of having actual talent, they are in need of a reality check.

You got that right.